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| XTR1000 |
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***VIDEO*** Here's the video, it's a little over an hour long: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=79DCWANU Lets give it a shot. I will be using Skype and Mikogo for this time, which limits the number of participants to 10. The first 9 players to pm me their SkypeID will get the Mikogo session# via Skype IM and we´ll go from there. I hope this turns out well and we´ll get this thing going on a regular basis. Disclaimer: I do not consider myself a coach in this sweating. I´m doing this to generate discussion and hope for everyone participating to question my play or give me shit for poor play. |
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting! | |||||
| Robb |
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| XTR vnh on this idea - I won't pm you 'cuz my work schedule it tight right now. If this goes on in February, I'd have a better shot at fitting it in. But this is an awesome way to start good discussions. Thanks, man!! | ||||
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| dranger7070 |
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| I'm curious as to what stakes you are playing and what you are looking for. If it's 25nl or under (doubtful lol) than I could do it. I get done with class at 3pm EST so it would work out pretty good. | ||||
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| dranger7070 |
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| Nevermind. Just read your first post on the subject. I'd probly be better off just railbirding if its at 100nl. Ah well. See you tomorrow :P | ||||
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| Robb |
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| RML604 |
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| Assuming I didn't PM XTR too late and am one of the 10, I am going to record the video and audio. I would encourage anyone else who is in on this to do the same thing, just incase one or a bunch of us screws up the recording. | ||||
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| dranger7070 |
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I have a mac so I don't know if I will be able to run Mikogo, but o well. Would be great if someone who recorded it will post on FTR  Sounds like a great plan imo. Have fun XTR
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| Keith |
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| If I'm one of the nine i'll offer to add anyone on the rails to my msn messenger so that they can text me questions that can then be asked over voice for the recordings. | ||||
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| kettleofish |
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| Just to clarify, are you using the standalone version of Mikogo or the Skype plugin? | ||||
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There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
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| XTR1000 |
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| Cant get the plug in to work, so Im gonna be using Mikogo and Skype seperated. | ||||
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| bigred |
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| If I work from home tomorrow I may try to get in if there's an open slot. 4PM EST isn't very convenient. | ||||
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LOL OPERATIONS
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| mieczkowusc |
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| Is there anyway someone could get a recording? I would love to watch it after the fact, but I'll be at work | ||||
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| RML604 |
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| Yeah, I pm'ed XTR but haven't heard back so I don't know if i'm in or not, but if I am, I'm planning on recording and uploading it to the video section here. If i'm not in, hopefully someone else would be kind enough to record this. | ||||
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| bigred |
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LOL OPERATIONS
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| XTR1000 |
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| everyone who has pm´ed by now is in, two open seats left. | ||||
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| RML604 |
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| XTR, any thought on how many tables you're going to do? | ||||
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| kettleofish |
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 It has sound effects! |
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There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
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| Airles™ |
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| Dude, coach or no coach, this is a sweet idea. Hopefully it works out and it can turn into a regular thing. | ||||
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| Muzzard |
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can you edit your original post to say who is in? thanks |
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| XTR1000 |
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I´m gonna be playing two tables. Particpants: Me Muzz Keith_MM hangchiong PlayToWin kettleofish iopq RML604 |
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| vclortho |
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Best idea ever. Hopefully this takes off, as I would love to join a session in Feb. Unfortunately I'm away for work for the next two weeks, so can't join any of the ones this month. Great idea on the recording, if anyone can pull that off it would be great. |
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They called it poker because the word FU<K! was taken...
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| Erpel |
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| I'd love to sit in, but I haven't bothered setting up Skype and Mikogo. If I find myself with time on my hands when I get home from work I might set it up and check if any spots are available - but don't reserve one for me. | ||||
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| Keith |
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| Any idea what the procedure is . Does XTR have to add us to the conference or do we all add him ? | ||||
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| bigspenda73 |
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send the moderator of the BC an invite or I'll ban you all! seriously, bigspenda73 on skype |
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| XTR1000 |
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| i think im supposed to invite everyone to the skype conference. as for mikogo i´ll generate a session id and send it to you and you´ll enter the id in the "join meeting"-dialogue | ||||
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| dranger7070 |
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| bigspenda73 |
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| dranger7070 |
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| bigspenda73 |
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| Muzzard |
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| srsly tilting. Mikogo lags my computer hard. I turned everything off that I had running, still lagged. Sorry I can't join. | ||||
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| Erpel |
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| Apparently, XTR is a nit! | ||||
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| GatorJH |
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| I really hope someone is recording this session. | ||||
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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| RML604 |
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| Done and done. Reviewing the video now, looks good so far. | ||||
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| hangchiong |
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nit because we were watching,but if you see his hands posted from his operation,he is actually a maniac at times.ahahha good session overall,pretty interesting spots. We could do some more session like this every week.I can volunteer doing one(have to get a mic 1st).Playing 25NL.Or someone else doing 10NL or 50NL |
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| Keith |
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| it was a really interesting session and special thanks to XTR for doing it and Spenda for all the insights and thoughts he gave throughout it . | ||||
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| GatorJH |
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| if you could get the video posted to megaupload by tonight that would be awesome. I would love to watch it at the hotel later. How long was the session? | ||||
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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| XTR1000 |
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Alright, I think this was a success and will hopefully be continued. Special thanks to Spenda for joining us and providing loads of valuable info, I think I speak for everybody that we learned a ton and your participation was greatly appreciated. RML recorded the session, maybe we can get it uploaded on FTR or somewhere else, so everybody can see what a nit I am. Fortunately we got into some interesting spots, I have been playing conservatively, due to running scared/bad in the past and spewing off a good amount of money over the last week on stupid plays. #1 HM shows 20/18 for the villian $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 5 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: UTG ($102.95) Hero (CO) ($194.00) BTN ($51.20) SB ($103.25) BB ($107.50) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is CO   1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, SB raises to $11.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $8.50 Flop:    ($24, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $12, SB folds Final Pot: $36 Hero wins $34.80 ( won $11.30 ) SB lost -$11.50 #2 $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 5 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: UTG ($87.90) CO ($60.55) BTN ($98.50) Hero (SB) ($101.50) BB ($71.50) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is SB   2 folds, BTN raises to $3, Hero calls $2.50, 1 fold Flop:    ($7, 2 players)Hero checks, BTN checks Turn: ($7, 2 players)Hero bets $4, BTN raises to $15, Hero folds Final Pot: $26 BTN wins $25.25 ( won $7.25 ) Hero lost -$7 #3 $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 5 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: CO ($113.20) Hero (BTN) ($104.15) SB ($121.65) BB ($135.50) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BTN 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold Flop:   ($7, 2 players)SB checks, Hero checks Turn:  ($7, 2 players)SB bets $4.50, Hero folds Final Pot: $11.50 SB wins $11.15 ( won $3.65 ) Hero lost -$3 #4 $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 5 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: Hero (UTG) ($100.00) CO ($71.95) BTN ($97.50) SB ($60.35) BB ($105.75) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is UTG   Hero raises to $3.50, 2 folds, SB calls $3, 1 fold Flop:  ($8, 2 players)SB bets $4, Hero folds Final Pot: $12 SB wins $11.60 ( won $4.10 ) Hero lost -$3.50 #5 $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 5 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: CO ($81.95) Hero (BTN) ($122.65) SB ($56.60) BB ($140.90) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BTN   1 fold, Hero raises to $3, EristoFF67 raises to $10, 2 folds, Hero calls $7 Flop:   ($21.50, 2 players)Hero checks, EristoFF67 bets $14, Hero folds Final Pot: $35.50 EristoFF67 wins $34.45 ( won $10.45 ) Hero lost -$10 #6 $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 4 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: CO ($104.60) BTN ($197.10) Hero (SB) ($100.50) BB ($60.20) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 4 players) Hero is SB   1 fold, BTN raises to $4.50, Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, BTN calls $9.50 Flop:   ($29, 2 players)Hero bets $17, BTN raises to $183.10, Hero calls $69.50 Turn:  ($298.60, 2 players)River:  ($298.60, 2 players)[Results Hidden] #7 $0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 3 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: BTN ($111.75) SB ($99.00) Hero (BB) ($101.50) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 3 players) Hero is BB  BTN folds, SB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $3.50 Flop:  ($9, 2 players)SB bets $9, Hero calls $9 Turn:  ($27, 2 players)SB checks, Hero checks River: ($27, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10 [Results Hidden] |
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| kettleofish |
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Ya was good, ty XTR allowing us to invade your monitor. It's made me wanna play some hands, but i'm stoned now so i'll have to settle for shooting aliens in the face
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There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.
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| hagscel |
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gr.. missed it but I`m still very,very interested. i`d better keep myself updated |
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sometimes naked
sometimes mad now the fool now the scholar thus they appear on earth: the free men. -Hindu verse
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| XTR1000 |
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My thoughts and what I can remember of others comments: #1 Flatting pre, to keep SBs range wide while we´re ahead. Enabling us to call more speculative hands, when we perceive him to be light and want to play our position and take advantage of him 3betting light. #2 Flatting pre, b/c there hasn´t been any BTN on blind fights. I´m likely to make mistakes in a 3bet pot OOP. I dont like my turn lead in hindsight, I´d much rather be c/c´ing turn and reevaluating river. I dont think he´s very strong on turn and basically repping 66/86, a bunch of bluffs or a spazzy JJ type hand. Opinions on 3b shoveling turn? #3 Not a great board to cbet. Someone had a point about turn giving us extra equity to our two overs. Imo, out T outs are unlikely to be good a lot, only three 8s are clean and we wont get payed off a lot with 4 to a str8 on board and our K outs are gonna cause us trouble with a bunch of 2pr/sets in his range. #4 Flop donk looks so much like a draw, yet I think my equity doesnt look great. #5 I have a crisis right now regarding getting it in pre. My QQ-JJ were almost never good when I got it in pre for 100BB in the past weeks. 4b/fold is not an option. I´m not in bad shape against his 3betting range. C/f flop seems bad, given that I perceive him to cbet almost his entire range on this flop. #6 Spenda had a good point for flatting pre. My argument for 3betting was his sizing and the fact that he was like 40/20 or so and didnt appear as if he folds to 3bets too much. #7 The villian was a 20/12 reg I guess. Im never folding pre and I dont like 3betting without any dynamic between us. I flop a gutter and have a pair and dont think I could fold to one bet. River bet size is interesting, I was going to b/f $16, but then tuned it down to $10. |
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| Erpel |
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Hand 1: The interesting bit here was chosing to flat call preflop rather than 4bet preflop. This was somewhat prompted by the rail and especially supported by Spenda based on the reasoning that playing KK here protects the weaker parts of your 3b calling range. He then went back on that (thinking less of his opponent I think) and said it's basically worth doing to extract value from the hand sometimes when you're in position. Hand 2: There question here was again regarding pre-flop aggression. Should we 3bet this hand? XTR chose the nitty path here because he's been spewing lately, which is fair. I just think if we call here OOP we're suddenly not playing for much more than set value. Which I guess is also fair. I'm the kind of guy who'd be tempted to stab at the flop, because I expect the button opening range to be wide enough to contain more than just aces, but I spew. On the turn raise I agree with the fold also. If memory serves the raise was pretty quick aka an easy decision (Edit: on video review it wasn't that quick - more like 5 secs). So either he has a monster, was greatly improved by the turn, or something that in a certain light looks like a monster (and in some cases slowplayed the flop). So AA, 88, 66, 33 are all in his range, as is AcXc. Not really much he'd raise with that we can reliably say we are ahead of except maybe 9c7c or 7c5c - this should be an easy fold. Hand 3: I requested this one - it's one of those 'why did I play this hand in the first place' things. Not to say that playing the hand in the first place is questionable, but I'm just thinking that the flop isn't good for us, but the turn gives us a gutshot with two overs and I was wondering if it was worth continuing in the hand. Or to return to my introduction, if we don't continue in a hand when we get a piece of the flop then it is probably questionable to play in the first place. Spenda correctly pointed out that our outs are sometimes dirty - like a T could make anyone with an 8 a straight - but tbh I think the villain range at this time is wide enough that hands that contaminate our outs are a pretty small part of villain's range. I wouldn't count either T or K 100% as a clean out, but I wouldn't call it dirty half the time either. They'd be questionable outs. I don't remember who the opponent was here, but with the passiveness in the hand Hero looks like he might be ready to give up on it. Wide BTN raising range, missed flop (no cbet) - let me just donk and steal this on the turn with ATC. I don't think I would be unhappy with Hero raising the turn. If re-raised villain has a better draw or a two-pair/set hand and we fold thinking little of it. If called we're OOP on missed rivers, hmm. If we hit the straight it's a value bet, if we hit the overcard it's probably check-calling a bet. If we miss.. I don't know. Is he more likely to call a raise with a made set or a drawing hand? Maybe we could size the bet to keep drawing hands in, so we can bluff at a river that misses all draws (no clubs, no 5, no 8, no T). I'm certainly not good enough to play at these stakes, and I don't disagree with the low variance fold here, but I'm tempted by the turn raise. Hand 4: This flop hits the UTG range pretty well and for SB to donk into it he almost has to want a call, so it's a fold for me too. He may have something like high card diamonds, maybe with the Kd for the top pair. Good fold imo. Hand 5: Flatting 3b IP in what..isn't actually a blind steal. It says Hero is on BTN, but he's actually on CO with villain on BTN. This hand occurred while I was off the conference call to fix my recording issues that made me sound like nothing but noise so only heard the end of the discussion. Again we're here talking about 3b or 4b. I think the conclusion was the you could 4b/fold here if you think the villain will only shove AA,KK. I think Spenda said something about QQ being 33% vs AA, KK, AK, where on my pokerstove it's 39.9%, so maybe I just misheard something  XTR said that the last 4 or so times he 4b QQ in this situation he got shoved on with AA or KK (he called), so if that's the normal shoving range at this site/limit it's certainly not profitable to 4b/call. On the flop, we're OOP in a 3b pot with a K-high flop and holding QQ. BTN may have widened his 3b range because he expects CO to have a wide range also, but there will still be a good number of kings in his hand range, so a fold is probably fine.Hand 6: Previously we had been discussing raise sizes from the button with spenda saying that anyone who raises more than 3x from the button he'd basically consider a bad player on par with someone who is not positionally aware and then this hand came along. Based on the preflop bet I bravely called the villain's hand TT (I was wrong). My point was, this villain seems a certain kind of bad player to me. One who knows and has been told that TT is a good hand, but every time he plays it he ends up losing to a higher pair - so he'd almost rather play his good hand in a way that gets folds so he at least doesn't lose on them. A special kind of poor player applies this "logic" to TT and raises it bigger preflop to discourage callers(?), sometimes JJ and also sometimes AK. TT is just the archetypical hand for it. Again the shove on the flop is in my experience (at lower stakes) more often a made but vulnerable hand who is happy to see the fold. It makes no sense at all to bloat the pot on a hand you yourself think of as vulnerable but a lot of people do it. AA is in good shape here most of the time. If not all the time - he'd probably slowplay a set (KK only set making hand in his range) and call with it. Hand 7: Ok, we call the 99 from the SB mainly for set value against a too big preflop bet(?). On the flop we pick up a gutshot and peel one off to a big cbet(?). The turn gives us a set and puts 4 to a straight on the board - time for pot control for both parties. The river here is interesting and caused a bit of discussion. I didn't say anything when XTR was betting but I was thinking - something small like $12 and he bet $10. Then Spenda said he'd have bet smaller. I can follow Spenda here, an $8 bet might be called by even more hands that we beat and we can still fold to raises. Basics of betting - are you called by hands that you beat? Do you cause hands stronger than yours to fold? In this case we're not getting folds by better, the question is how to maximise against that we beat.
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| GatorJH |
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My thoughts on these hands are as follows: Quote:
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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| XTR1000 |
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| bjsaust |
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| Hand one I think the interesting spot is on the flop. Is better better than checking behind and trying to get value from his weaker range on the turn? | ||||
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Just playing to improve.
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| RML604 |
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Here's the video, it's a little over an hour long: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=79DCWANU I was paranoid that the audio would be too low while I was recording, so periodically I kept turning it up, and then it would auto adjust and turn itself down. So if the audio gets too loud at parts, I apologize. |
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| bigspenda73 |
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| The A6s hand where we flop top/bottom 2 and the turn brings the Qd | ||||
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| lol I slept in ship the megaupload plox | ||||
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| Erpel |
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Hmm again - I may even have misread the hand to us being the aggressor or something. It makes no sense to donk this flop. You're also right on the flush draws and sets having a mandatory bet on the flop. I still think some players at my limits play bad in the way I describe, but this isn't the micros and we'd have to assume he'd have done the mandatory bet here. I just don't like defining his range as narrowly as 66/86. He could spaz with JJ/QQ, but surely Ax is in our range when we bet. I would probably want to add A6 to his range at least. The reason I thought of flush draws was that I thought his raise range should contain both hands that want to build a big pot as well as hands that need fold equity to be profitable (C range hands - hands with equity/outs but which do not rate to be favourites). Right now I just can't think of any hands in the second category. |
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| XTR1000 |
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$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem 4 players Converted at weaktight.com Stacks: CO ($108.75) Hero (BTN) ($98.50) SB ($98.00) BB ($64.45) Pre-flop: ($1.50, 4 players) Hero is BTN 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold Flop:  ($7, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4 Turn: ($15, 2 players)SB checks, Hero checks River:  ($15, 2 players)SB bets $4, Hero folds Final Pot: $19 SB wins $18.25 ( won $7.25 ) Hero lost -$7 |
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I looked at it then I looked at it again then I thought about it and I need serious reads to make that fold because the strategy of betting 1/4 pot doesn't have to succeed a lot of the time to be profitable against someone who makes these folds sure, we only beat a bluff, but this is the "OOP float" sequence I'd have to know that this player bets small for value I mean if the villain were me, I'm betting this small with a balanced range, and yes, including some bluffs |
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| KoRnholio |
02-11-2012, 09:04 PM Tennessee worries that Online Poker could reduce State Lottery revenues
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| There are a number of officials in Tennessee who believe that legalized online poker would cut into their state lottery revenues, much of which goes towards education programs. Shirley Raines, Preside ... | |
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