Quote Originally Posted by mojo
Telling someone they can't use a public facility because you haven't made accommodations for their gender is BS.
Yes, it is. But so is forcing women to share their gender-specific spaces with other genders.

...claiming that a minority shouldn't get the same basic public accommodations as everyone else is fucked up.
Sure it is. So provide suitable facilities.

We're not talking about showers.
Public showers are the extreme example, the most obvious case where having different genders together is problematic. But there's a great deal more to it than this. We've spoken about sports in the past, and didn't really reach an agreement other than to agree to disagree. There's also the problem of things like domestic abuse and rape support groups. These kind of places are sanctuaries for women who are much more likely than average to feel uncomfortable around men. But if a man in a dress can call himself a woman, he can turn up at such a support group and claim a hate crime is happening when people get upset about it.

You can't just say "deal with it" to women who have a problem with this. That's basically doing precisely what you don't want to do to trans people. You don't want to exclude trans people. That's understandable. But that can't come at the expense of excluding women. And if a woman no longer feels safe in a space she previously did feel safe, then she is essentially excluded. Just like you exclude trans people if you provide a space for them and then allow anyone to use that space.

There are support groups for trans people who have been subjected to violence. Do you think anyone should be allowed to attend these support groups? Or should they be exclusively for trans people who have experienced violence? If you're choosing the latter, than you simply have to remain consistent and allow women to have such support groups too.

And then apply that across the board.

If you don't think women should have their own spaces, then neither should trans people, or men. Let's just have no gender segregation at all. Do you think that would improve society?