**** Elections thread *****

[Jack Sawyer]

Well, I would argue that Trump was never a regular joe. But I think I get what you mean. However...


Trump stopped being a regular joe when he announced his candidacy. After that, everything he said and did mattered a hell of a lot more. So yes, I agree with you. It matters more.


But after 15 months of it, the American public decided that it doesn't matter enough to keep him from being a good president. To me, that should be the end of it. After that, every time he does or says something that is totally consistent with his character and behavior to this point....the non-Trump fans need to just suck it up. Playing "gotchya" on minor, hair splitting, details on irrelevant matters is petty, sore-loser-ness.

Thank you for understanding my point and trying to reach a consensus. Now, would you agree with me that there are more players in today’s game than just TrumpFans? Of course that there are those that no matter what Trump does or says they will give him a pass, but would you agree with me that, e.g.:




• Bibi Netanyahu
• Kim Jong-Un
• Rodrigo Duterte
• Vlad “The Impaler” Putin
• Angela Merkel
• Theresa May
• Jacob Zuma
• Joko Widodo
• Shinzo Abe
• Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud
• Mauricio Macri
• Michel Temer
• François Hollande
• Narendra Modi
• Enrique Peña Nieto
• Paolo Gentiloni
• Xi Jinping
• Recep Tayyip Erdoğan


… are all very important in today’s game?

[BananaStand]

but would you agree with me that, e.g.:
[Other world leaders]
… are all very important in today’s game?

Sure. But this is where I think we're going to diverge on opinions.

I feel that an unreasonably brutal press hurts Trump's position, and thus America's position, when it comes to negotiating with the world leaders you've mentioned. He'll never get Russia, or anyone, to respect anything he says if he's constantly dealing with press taunting him for not being able to count. That's the dangerous game the media is playing, all in the name of "accountability" over issues that no one really cares about.

[Jack Sawyer]

Sure. But this is where I think we're going to diverge on opinions.


I feel that an unreasonably brutal press hurts Trump's position, and thus America's position, when it comes to negotiating with the world leaders you've mentioned. He'll never get Russia, or anyone, to respect anything he says if he's constantly dealing with press taunting him for not being able to count. That's the dangerous game the media is playing, all in the name of "accountability" over issues that no one really cares about.

The press is not brutal. The press is not adversarial. The press is just reacting to HIS WORDS all the time. Every statement Trump makes needs to apparently have an asterisk attached to it. If he would stop lying/misspeaking/keep pulling out unconfirmed bullshit out of his ass because he saw it on TV or on the internet or some other crap, it would all stop and continue being business as usual.


We have already agreed to the conclusion that as a WORLD LEADER™ you need to be very careful of your statements. Your every word can have massive consequences. The stakes are very, very high now; everyone cares about every silly little thing that comes out of your mouth. Not just your voters, not just your fans, but also all of those who you now rule, and whole countries you have partnerships with.


You are speaking for not for 62,979,879 Americans, nor for 128,824,833 Americans, but for each and everyone of the 326,474,013 (as of Jan. 2017, as we know people keep fucking and dying so this number fluctuates) Americans you are now the LEADER of.


It’s time to start acting PRESIDENTIAL. Forget how he was before this, he must now be presidential. There are certain standards that you have to adhere to, else you will become the laughingstock on an international stage.






A thin-skinned laughingstock with nukes.

[Poopadoop]

The press is not brutal. The press is not adversarial.

I wouldn't go this far; they can be both brutal and adversarial. I think they are genuinely anti-Trump (apart from Fox, which seems to waver between butt-kissing and relatively mild criticism). BUT, that doesn't mean they don't have some valid points to make, or that they're just complaining about irrelevant matters like a typo in a speech or something.

Further, the adversarial posture of the press has only been increased by Trump's constant denouncing of them. He's largely responsible for the fact that the press hates him. It seems he treats them as unfairly as they treat him.

[Jack Sawyer]

I wouldn't go this far; they can be both brutal and adversarial. I think they are genuinely anti-Trump (apart from Fox, which seems to waver between butt-kissing and relatively mild criticism). BUT, that doesn't mean they don't have some valid points to make, or that they're just complaining about irrelevant matters like a typo in a speech or something.


Further, the adversarial posture of the press has only been increased by Trump's constant denouncing of them. He's largely responsible for the fact that the press hates him. It seems he treats them as unfairly as they treat him.

In my opinion, adversarial press would make up stories and run with them over and over, not take something that you said which made no sense and repeat it over and over trying to make the point that you seem to say a lot of things which make no sense.


Adversarial is what happened between PewDiePie and Disney because of the WSJ. There seemed to be actual beef there, and apparently that was because they felt PewDiePie was like a competitor to them in terms of views.


This is not adversarial what is happening to Trump. When he was running, he was getting the silk glove treatment. A few Billion dorrarrs in free promotion which undoubtedly helped get him elected. And he was still calling them “Adversarial” back then. Trump has a history of only liking the press when they kiss his ass. That should not happen to a president in any democracy. People have to call you out honestly on your shit. If you choose to LIE, and keep lying ad nauseam, you can not get angry that people are calling you out on your LIES.


Remember: Lying Is a Choice. If your tactic of choice to get people on your side is to lie, and it eventually backfires, don’t start whining like a 3-yr old who needs a pacifier.


The solution to this whole brouhaha is simple. Stop lying Trump, stop making up Alternative Facts™. Stick to regular facts, and the press will then only have the regular issues to call you out on. You know, unemployment, immigration, etc.


Sidenote: I linked a vid earlier on how Fox News of all people were calling Priebus out on his shit. You know it’s bad if motherfucking Fox News has to call any conservative out for his or her respective shit. So I tip my hat to them in this occasion.






Nothing changed, except the stakes of the game right now. We are on the proverbial final table. You can’t splash in pots anymore.

[BananaStand]

In my opinion, adversarial press would make up stories and run with them over and over,

You mean like the single most prominent narrative in the mainstream media right now...the one that says Trump hired Russia to take down Hillary in exchange for favorable accommodations in future foreign policy negotiations.

[Jack Sawyer]

You mean like the single most prominent narrative in the mainstream media right now...the one that says Trump hired Russia to take down Hillary in exchange for favorable accommodations in future foreign policy negotiations.

Down goes Michael Flynn. Why? Well because …


http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...-russia-2017-2
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...ns-russia-news


… he LIED. Apparently to Mike Pence of all people. AG Sally Yates called him out on it and raised attention on the issue as she should, and got fired for that.


http://fortune.com/2017/02/14/michae...n-sally-yates/




A timeline of the events in Flynn’s case


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...line/97946470/










=======================


The thing was the Russian hackers.


This an article from 2014, way, way, way before the DNC hack was a thing:
https://thehackernews.com/2014/10/AP...espionage.html


So yeah, the DNC hack. Right now it’s all hearsay and “I got evidence but I can’t show it to you”, but the alleged Russian hackers have shown their presence once again:


https://thehackernews.com/2017/02/xa...are-apt28.html
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-mac-...hackers-apt28/
https://arstechnica.com/security/201...lection-hacks/




I assume that it’s tough to make a case about hacking. Refusal of disclosure of evidence, not to mention those that even if you disclose said evidence will say that you are lying anyway, and the fact that most people have no idea about cyber security and think you need a 7 monitor rig like the movie Swordfish and a few cases of Red Bull, contribute to this fact.


Then you have other, less important actors waiting for said evidence disclose so they can apply it to their own schemes and muddy the waters even worse


https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/new...ssian-hackers/
















=======================


Sidenote: LIES.


It got so bad, the Washington Post made up a chrome extension to fact-check Trump Tweets. I’m not shitting you


https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...-into-twitter/

[Poopadoop]

In my opinion, adversarial press would make up stories and run with them over and over, not take something that you said which made no sense and repeat it over and over trying to make the point that you seem to say a lot of things which make no sense.

I'm pretty much in agreement with the rest of what you said in this post about Trump bringing a lot of the bad press on himself, but this part I'm less convinced of.

It may or may not be that they actually make stuff up, but they certainly do tend to sensationalize and overblow things that are otherwise true, or at least that's the impression I have. It's not exactly 'fake news', but it certainly isn't impartial either.