**** Elections thread *****

[Jack Sawyer]

What "double down"? He clarified his comments. Sweden got the explanation it asked for. This should be over now.

Trump never said it didn't happen. He said, and I quote: "I saw it on Fox News“.

The truth is, he's a little bit stupid. Words got mixed up in his head while delivering an impassioned speech. I don't like it. I don't think it's great that he does this. [STRONG]But we KNEW IT all along, and he still got elected.[/STRONG] Harping on it now, after the election is long over, is only hurting America's interests on the world stage. Not just Trump's.

As poopadoop said, this is the weakest sauce excuse of all time. If I’m not qualified for a job and still somehow landed it, I can’t go around saying “BUT THEy ARE POINTING OUT MY SHORTCOMINGS” mixed in with “THE SKY IS PURPLE”, “DOGS CAN FUCK BEES” and “I’M THE GREATEST [INSERT PROFESSION I LANDED HERE] EVARRRR!!!”


Someone will call me out on my bullshit eventually.

And it's a little disingenuous to say that this is important because it mentions another country. The reaction was the same with regards to crowd-size-gate, and electoral-vote-count-gate.

He lied there too. It were verifiable facts, and yet he lied, constantly, over and over, *Misspoke*. And then he executed the patented Trumpian DoubleDown™ there as well. He’s starting to sound like my goddamned ex-girlfriend, no matter how many times you catch her lying, she will keep maintaining it was actually true. Truly sad.

[BananaStand]

Trump never said it didn't happen. He said, and I quote: "I saw it on Fox News“.

oh puh-leeze. You're making up facts if you think Trump is actually arguing that a Terrorist attack occurred in Sweden two nights ago.[/QUOTE]

As poopadoop said, this is the weakest sauce excuse of all time. If I’m not qualified for a job and still somehow landed it, I can’t go around saying “BUT THEy ARE POINTING OUT MY SHORTCOMINGS”

Not even in the same universe man. Your job interview probably involved at most...5 people. Trump's job interview was broadcast world wide, and some 128 million people had a say in it. He's not perfect. No candidate is. But once he's elected, you take the good with the bad.

He lied there too. It were verifiable facts, and yet he lied, constantly, over and over, *Misspoke*. And then he executed the patented Trumpian DoubleDown™ there as well.

You keep saying "lied". That's fake news/alternative facts. It's entirely possible he really thought his margin of victory was the largest, based on something he heard or read, and believed it. Who cares? He was corrected, during the press conference, and his response was (paraphrasing) "ok, well that's what somebody told me, if it's wrong, whatever, I still kicked ass in the election". Why then does the media go into defcon 2 ranting about how he "lied". What's the point of that? Shephard Smith (who works for FOX) threw a fucking tantrum over it. Why so much anger?

He’s starting to sound like my goddamned ex-girlfriend, no matter how many times you catch her lying, she will keep maintaining it was actually true. Truly sad.

SOunds like my ex too. Imagine where we'd be if we elected a woman president!

[Jack Sawyer]

SOunds like my ex too. Imagine where we'd be if we elected a woman president!

Oh damn. That's low though, but slowclap.gif

[Poopadoop]

once he's elected, you take the good with the bad.

Since when has becoming POTUS meant someone can't be criticized?

You keep saying "lied". That's fake news/alternative facts.

It's amusing that some people are willing to give Trump credit for being stupid/misinformed as opposed to deliberately dishonest, like that's somehow makes it acceptable.

[BananaStand]

Since when has becoming POTUS meant someone can't be criticized?

Since never. But when that criticism is specifically directed at personality traits a guy has had his whole life, and were basically adjudicated through a fair election, then the criticism becomes a lot more like whining

It's amusing that some people are willing to give Trump credit for being stupid/misinformed as opposed to deliberately dishonest, like that's somehow makes it acceptable.

On issues that matter 0% to anything other than Trump's ego, I'm willing to accept it. He has a big ego, and he tends to like information that feeds that ego. Again, that's not new. The world had it's chance in November to take inventory of all of that and say "nope, that's not what a president should be". They lost. Try again in 2020.

[Poopadoop]

Since never. But when that criticism is specifically directed at personality traits a guy has had his whole life, and were basically adjudicated through a fair election, then the criticism becomes a lot more like whining

That's your opinion. To expect most people to just accept those personality traits, especially people who didn't vote for him, and that if they don't they're whiners, is lame. If anything it makes you look like a sore winner.

On issues that matter 0% to anything other than Trump's ego, I'm willing to accept it. He has a big ego, and he tends to like information that feeds that ego. Again, that's not new. The world had it's chance in November to take inventory of all of that and say "nope, that's not what a president should be". They lost. Try again in 2020.

Willing to accept what? The being stupid/misinformed or the lying? Or are you saying it doesn't matter.

And what about things that do matter? Is it ok for him to be stupid/misinformed or lying about the world in general?

And for the last time, no-one is buying that 'he won, therefore his negative traits are acceptable' is a valid argument.

[Jack Sawyer]

I wouldn't go this far; they can be both brutal and adversarial. I think they are genuinely anti-Trump (apart from Fox, which seems to waver between butt-kissing and relatively mild criticism). BUT, that doesn't mean they don't have some valid points to make, or that they're just complaining about irrelevant matters like a typo in a speech or something.


Further, the adversarial posture of the press has only been increased by Trump's constant denouncing of them. He's largely responsible for the fact that the press hates him. It seems he treats them as unfairly as they treat him.

Sure. But this is where I think we're going to diverge on opinions.


I feel that an unreasonably brutal press hurts Trump's position, and thus America's position, when it comes to negotiating with the world leaders you've mentioned. He'll never get Russia, or anyone, to respect anything he says if he's constantly dealing with press taunting him for not being able to count. That's the dangerous game the media is playing, all in the name of "accountability" over issues that no one really cares about.

And yet he keeps doing it. He keeps doing it. He keeps doing it. He keeps spouting stuff that’s just not true, verifiable untruths, and when the press backs him into a corner he threatens the free press, revoking credentials, actual bullying like he did with the lady who came up with the question of the black caucus a few days ago, and on and on.


Trump is backing himself up in a dangerous corner. All he has to do is stop lying and stop calling other people liars. He already made his reputation as Pinocchio. He has to stop lying, stop doubling down on his lies, and then when there’s no more recourse left say he saw it on TV. It’s a pattern, regrettably a regressive one.


This is what it feels like being a frog in a boiling pot. The only time the frog will realize that the pot is boiling, is when it’s dead which is arguably (LOL) too late.






This article called this a while ago


http://fortune.com/2016/11/11/trump-vs-media/

I wouldn't go this far; they can be both brutal and adversarial. I think they are genuinely anti-Trump (apart from Fox, which seems to waver between butt-kissing and relatively mild criticism). BUT, that doesn't mean they don't have some valid points to make, or that they're just complaining about irrelevant matters like a typo in a speech or something.


Further, the adversarial posture of the press has only been increased by Trump's constant denouncing of them. He's largely responsible for the fact that the press hates him. It seems he treats them as unfairly as they treat him.

Perfect. 100%


It took a long time for us to get to this position, but we must all remember that when the media was sucking his dick he enjoyed it very much. This whole obsession with the media, vilification, adversarial relationship started pretty much when he said his Mexican remarks.

“The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems,” Trump said. “It’s true. And these aren’t the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime; they’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

Those are his words. The media said Trump said every Mexican Immigrant is a druggie, is a criminal, is a rapist. Trump went ballistic because that’s not what he said. So this whole media war is about semantics. He did say exactly that.


People then argue “But he didn’t say all Mexican immigrants are bad”, and yet the quote does say that “When Mexico sends its people, they are not sending their very best. They are sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime; they’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” It is word for word what he said, yet he denied having said exactly that.


When Univision’s Jorge Ramos asked him about that, about the deportation policies, and asking him for clarification on his Mexico-related policies, he got this treatment





That was the official starting point of this mess, Aug. 2015. And now we are where we are today.






This is perhaps a good use for Martin Niemöller’s “first they came for” quote …