ITT: Fat Shaming (Formerly Tilt Derailment)

[Savy]

People who imply getting in shape makes you feel good. The only way getting in shape makes you feel good is if you're such a fat fuck you get out of breath doing basic every day tasks.

Pushing your body hard makes you feel sick, this isn't a good feeling. When your body hurts the next day, this is also not a good feeling. Why do people have to lie to themselves and pretend that is is? I imagine mostly because people are obsessed with how they look.

I can't imagine there are any animals that wouldn't get fat if they had an abundance of food and no immediate threats.

[rong]

If you have good pecs, shoulders and arms and a 6 pack, taking off your shirt when girls are around makes you feel great.

[jackvance]

Quite simple, when exercising our body releases endorphines which relax us and make us feel good. Personally, even feeling sore in itself makes me feel better, knowing it came from working out. Like a personal pride thing. Because it is so rare ofcourse.

EDIT: oh yeah this is the tilt thread.. eh, so much to do and so little time!

[Savy]

If you have good pecs, shoulders and arms and a 6 pack, taking off your shirt when girls are around makes you feel great.

I wasn't implying there are no benefits to being in shape. There obviously are, my point is that actually working out doesn't feel good.

And it's not quite simple at all @Jackvance. I've gone from being in fantastic shape at like 15 and below to awful shape first and second year of uni to being in ok shape atm and fitness training has never been fun or enjoyable. If I had the chance I'd just keep my fitness up by playing sports, which is all I'm getting fit for atm, but unfortunately I don't atm.

[jyms]

Things that tilt me are people that have no idea what being in good shape is.

That and people that think you build abs in the gym.

[Savy]

Things that tilt me are people that have no idea what being in good shape is.

If that's aimed at me, smd thanks.

[jyms]

It was aimed at many people with the same ideas on every forum and every faceboook conversation around health and fitness.

Also to say that working out doesn't feel great then your doing it wrong. There is a reason millions of people work out with a smile on their face every day. Just sit at teh finish line of any 5K or 10K event, or go in the gym at 5:30am and see the people that workout because they love it. Go watch a Zumba class or even a yoga class and see how people look, feel and act while "working out". If working out and getting in good shape is hard, or causes you discomfort and/or pain, your 're doing it wrong.

[rong]

Things that tilt me are people that have no idea what being in good shape is.

That and people that think you build abs in the gym.

So sit ups with a weight and low levels of fat don't give you abs? Enlighten me. But keep it short I have a short attention span today.

[jyms]

If I peeled your skin and fat back you would have abs. Abs are visible when body fat levels get low enough. That is acheived through diet and calorie manipulation.

tl:dr Abs are built in the kitchen

[Savy]

DOMs, happens. Feeling sick after doing sprints happens. All of these things decline the more you do them, but they exist and aren't nice. Exhaustion, lactic acid, not good feelings, happen.

When you finish a 10k race it's the relief of finishing it and the sense of accomplishment that makes people smile.

If getting fit was some universally fun thing to do everyone would do it. How many single guys would turn down sex off an averagely attractive woman? Like 0%. How many would turn down the suggestion to go for a jog? A lot.

The reason people work out so much isn't to do with the actual act of working out feeling good it's because of all the external shit people lap up and think doing exercise will make them a better person. Looking better may do wonders for your self confidence which is fantastic (it's not most people are boring and have too much self confidence) and loads of other things which are +'s in your life which far outweigh the - that is fitness training.

People who go "I'm physically exhausted, feels good". No it doesn't.

[rong]

So I shouldn't bother to use the exercise bike and rowing machine today?

Also, I need pecs, advice please. FYI I don't go to a gym so exercises for the home please.

[rong]

Also, I knew a guy who worked out with a towel and buckets of water and he looked pretty good.

[Savy]

So I shouldn't bother to use the exercise bike and rowing machine today?

Also, I need pecs, advice please. FYI I don't go to a gym so exercises for the home please.

gl getting pecs and losing bf to get abs at the same time. It's not happening.

Abs show at like 7-12% bf iirc. Eat less calories, burn more calories, mixture of both work. Bare in mind you can cut 400 calories out of your diet easily whereas it's hard work in the gym. Both is obviously best.

This is assuming your pecs will look crap as they are small. Otherwise losing bf may be enough to give you decent pecs.

[jyms]

And I am telling you, yes it does. Those same things you just mentioned I love. Lactic acid burn and DOMS hurt the muscle, but feel great, you can feel your muscles move and you know your workout targeted exactly what you wanted

Exhaustion isn't horrible. If it was so painful and uncomfortable we wouldn't push into the point of exhaustion, it's a just a feeling and nothing to do with discomfort.

You equate these feelings to your experiences and assume that is the same for everyone. If pain was was always a discomfort to all people nobody would do extreme sports, or be into BDSM. Your tolerance for pain and your experience for how you associate pain to your emotions is why you don't like it, but you're not everyone.

[jyms]

I'm going to move this conversation out of the tilt thread.

[jyms]

So I shouldn't bother to use the exercise bike and rowing machine today?

Also, I need pecs, advice please. FYI I don't go to a gym so exercises for the home please.

Depends on your goals, and don't bother to tell me to look better and have abs.

Where are you? where are you trying to go?

[jyms]

gl getting pecs and losing bf to get abs at the same time. It's not happening.

Abs show at like 7-12% bf iirc. Eat less calories, burn more calories, mixture of both work. Bare in mind you can cut 400 calories out of your diet easily whereas it's hard work in the gym. Both is obviously best.

This is assuming your pecs will look crap as they are small. Otherwise losing bf may be enough to give you decent pecs.

This is wrong on so many levels and it's what we call bro science.

[Savy]

For what it's worth I don't really have anything more to add.

External factors make people believe stuff that isn't true. Pain and discomfort aren't good feelings unless you have something slightly wrong with you.

I'll just conclude with people self harming. It feels better to focus on the physical pain that the emotional pain. Therefore 95% (made up stats yay) of the people who exercise are just crying out for help.

[Savy]

This is wrong on so many levels and it's what we call bro science.

Please do explain I'm interested.

[jyms]

For what it's worth I don't really have anything more to add.

External factors make people believe stuff that isn't true. Pain and discomfort aren't good feelings unless you have something slightly wrong with you.

I'll just conclude with people self harming. It feels better to focus on the physical pain that the emotional pain. Therefore 95% (made up stats yay) of the people who exercise are just crying out for help.

So you equate people causing harm to avoid emotional pain to people feeling exhausted after a run or the lactic acid burn and DOMS from weight training?

[Savy]

So you equate people causing harm to avoid emotional pain to people feeling exhausted after a run or the lactic acid burn and DOMS from weight training?

It was a joke taking my point to the absurdly extreme. I thought that was obvious, my bad.

[jyms]

Please do explain I'm interested.

Building muscle and burning fat are two completely different systems in the body. Fat is lost (abs) through a calorie defiicit and low body fat levels, and pecs are built through a series of process called anabolism. It is done through tearing down muscle through some form or resistance exercise and providing the body enough nutrients (not calories) for muscle repair and growth.

These bulk/cut cycles and can't do both comes from a huge communtiy in the BB.com world that follows people that do certain AAS cycles and focus on one thiong at a time for maximum effect. For the natural athlete/trainee/bodybuilder, you can acheive both at the same time.

[Savy]

Surely then it's quite hard to provide your body with the correct nutrients and eat a calorie deficit and the type of thing where you have to watch your diet quite closely? Or am I miles off the mark with that?

You can close/delete this btw I don't really see the need for it as a thread.

[rong]

Sigh, so close, but the boredom got me.

[jyms]

There is a need when questions get asked. Rong had questions too

If you eat only whole foods like fruits and veggies and plenty of animal based proteins, you won't get enough calories to gain fat. In fact it's quiet easy to lose weight if you make sure most of your fat intake is good fats. Working out hard with resistance exercise and a bit of cardio will provide the body with more than enough calorie burn while getting these nutrients and not enough calories. It's actually a lot easier than it's made out to be because they need to sell programs and books. Yes there is more to it than that, but if that is all you do, you would be very surprised at the results.

[Pascal]

When I followed jyms's instructions to be healthier, I felt so much better. Less tired, happier, more focused. I've slipped out of it but getting back into it last couple of days, changed my diet back to no carb and going to the gym more often. It is worth it

[rong]

Ok jyms, tonight when I'm hone you can give me a diet and exercise regime. I'll even post before and after pics, maybe even nude.

[jyms]

I can give you some basics yes. Full Monty body composition changes don't come cheap, hehe. But I do work for Pokerstars transfers

[NightGizmo]

People who imply getting in shape makes you feel good. The only way getting in shape makes you feel good is if you're such a fat fuck you get out of breath doing basic every day tasks.

What?! Clearly you're not in shape and your definition of "in shape" is horribly wrong. If I don't work out for a week or two, I become miserable.

Working out has so many immediate benefits that it's insane to even read a statement like yours. It makes you sleep better, especially the quality of sleep (when I don't work out, my sleep is light and easily interrupted). I'm more awake and alert throughout the day, and able to stay focused when I'm working. My general emotional mood is significantly better when I'm working out regularly -- I get irritated a lot easier if I haven't worked out recently.

Maybe you're just talking about the immediate physical feeling, ala this statement:

People who go "I'm physically exhausted, feels good". No it doesn't.

Then you must be doing it wrong. There are plenty of exercises that I have done where I come home and feel physically exhausted, but I also feel awesome -- for example, basketball, tennis, martial arts. Even running, which I absolutely hate (so I rarely ever do it), makes my body feel amazing afterwards. I used to lift weights 4/5 times a week, and I would always leave the gym smiling, feeling significantly better than when I walked in.

Try finding something you like doing and don't push yourself so hard that you get nauseous. That's a sign that you are pushing past your limits.

[Savy]

I must just be special and get absolutely 0 of them benefits.

And by ok shape in that I can run a mile in < 7 mins . I can cycle 10km in <20mins. I'm nowhere near as fit as I used to be a few years ago, but I'm getting there. Only really started up against a couple of months ago.

fwiw I've probably slept worse since starting up doing exercise again, although I imagine the exercise has just has 0 effect. My general mood is no better, etc etc.

And I was talking about the immediate effect and I'm not doing it wrong. Explain how it makes you feel awesome when you are exhausted, because it doesn't, you feel exhausted. You just have some crap going on in your head like sense of achievement which you confuse with it being a good feeling but your body itself doesn't feel good.

[rong]

I think you need a common definition of good.

[NightGizmo]

Explain how it makes you feel awesome when you are exhausted, because it doesn't, you feel exhausted. You just have some crap going on in your head like sense of achievement which you confuse with it being a good feeling but your body itself doesn't feel good.

Running: my entire body feels loose and relaxed, which is a good feeling. If I didn't find running so boring, I'd probably do it a lot more because of how good I feel immediately afterwards. But I love walking, and if I go walking around for an hour (or sometimes 2) I generally get a mini-version of this feeling.

Weights: It's tough to explain -- my body feels better connected together, like everything fits better and works together correctly. I think there's another mental part to it -- there is immediate positive feedback due to the muscles being pumped up and better defined. Obviously, if you overdo it you can end up being so sore that you can barely use the muscles a day or two later, and that's not fun -- so ldo don't overdo it.

Martial arts, or other exercises that tend to focus on explosive strength: kind of a combination of the first two. Immediately afterwards, my body feels loose and relaxed (even more so than running), but I also get similar feelings to weight lifting (body is more tightly connected to itself, but can also lead to soreness in following days if I challenged muscles in new ways).

[WillburForce]

I must just be special and get absolutely 0 of them benefits.

And by ok shape in that I can run a mile in < 7 mins . I can cycle 10km in <20mins. I'm nowhere near as fit as I used to be a few years ago, but I'm getting there. Only really started up against a couple of months ago.

fwiw I've probably slept worse since starting up doing exercise again, although I imagine the exercise has just has 0 effect. My general mood is no better, etc etc.

And I was talking about the immediate effect and I'm not doing it wrong. Explain how it makes you feel awesome when you are exhausted, because it doesn't, you feel exhausted. You just have some crap going on in your head like sense of achievement which you confuse with it being a good feeling but your body itself doesn't feel good.

When did you last get laid?

[bikes]

itt imsavy making obvious trolls that everyone is falling for

[Galapogos]

And I was talking about the immediate effect and I'm not doing it wrong. Explain how it makes you feel awesome when you are exhausted, because it doesn't, you feel exhausted. You just have some crap going on in your head like sense of achievement which you confuse with it being a good feeling but your body itself doesn't feel good.

When you play a high impact sport do you also not enjoy that? Because that will leave you just as exhausted, if not more, than a workout at the gym would. It's the mental aspect that makes you enjoy it. And I don't think anyone's arguing it's not the mental sense of accomplishment that makes the gym immediately enjoyable. Then there's the long term enjoyable physical feeling of your body in better shape, which really is so much better than being out of shape for a bunch of reasons.

[Jack Sawyer]

So I shouldn't bother to use the exercise bike and rowing machine today?

Also, I need pecs, advice please. FYI I don't go to a gym so exercises for the home please.

Prison puships. Presto.

[Jack Sawyer]

itt imsavy making obvious trolls that everyone is falling for

+1

[jyms]

[Lukie]

Pretty much everyone who I have ever talked to on this subject who has gone from sedentary to active or at least somewhat active (and often generally eating better goes along with it) says how much better they feel, more energy they have, sharper they think, etc. There are a lot of possible reasons and pathologies for this that go beyond endorphins and psychological reasons, though those are certainly 2 of them. There are a lot of confounding variables as well.

[rong]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennifer...elly-fat-fast/

Thoughts?

[jyms]

generic, but not wrong. Far too much missing. But yes, not horrible.

[rong]

Enlighten me Jimothy. How do I get sexy. It was easy when I was 17-22 because I was so busy anyway with sport, sex and working out and I could eat what I wanted while remaining in satisfactory shape. That is no longer the case with any of these. Give me some guide lines to follow that can start to make a difference.

I'm 5'8" and 12 stone, I have a bit of a belly and have lost the good shape I once had on my shoulders and chest. My diet isn't awful in terms of nutrients but is probably all wrong for what I want to achieve. I eat lots of fruit and veg but also a lot of shit in the form of pizza, sandwiches, chocolate, crisps etc and also have 1.5 teaspoons of sugar in my coffee which I drink approx 5 cups of per day.

I don't want to get particularly built, just toned with a flat-ish stomach, at least 4 abs on show, a decent set of shoulders and a chest that protrudes further from my body than my stomach.

I don't want or expect a detailed plan. If you gave me one I'd never follow it anyway. I certainly don't want to pay for advice, but I would appreciate some guidelines to follow in order to at least be heading in the right direction and not doing anything that's really counter productive.

Basically anything you feel like throwing out there would be useful. Same to anyone else who knows about this shit.

[rong]

Mmmmm, that post got me thinking about chocolate. Eating a galaxy caramel right now.

[bikes]

Enlighten me Jimothy. How do I get sexy.

You look like James fucking McAvoy. You are already there.

[rong]

Ha, that's only from the Neck up.

[bikes]

for those of you who are unaware this is what rong looks like irl.



don't let him fool you.

[rong]

Did you have some kind of camera set up in you room> That's weird dude!

[jyms]

Don't try and quit things, it's pretty simple. You already told me a bunch of things you do wrong, are you expecting some magic wizardry to make you stop eating chocolate when you know you shouldn't? Or pizza when you know it goes against everything your trying to do? The things that can make the biggest difference are just doing it. Seriously, You look the way you've lived the last few months or years. Take some time to figure out why you WANT to look the way you do, and why you look the way you do.

You need to figure out why you want to look better than you do.

[bikes]

Don't try and quit things, it's pretty simple. You already told me a bunch of things you do wrong, are you expecting some magic wizardry to make you stop eating chocolate when you know you shouldn't? Or pizza when you know it goes against everything your trying to do? The things that can make the biggest difference are just doing it. Seriously, You look the way you've lived the last few months or years. Take some time to figure out why you WANT to look the way you do, and why you look the way you do.

You need to figure out why you want to look better than you do.

now he's a philosophizer

edit - <3

[rong]

I want to look better because I live near the beach, which means lots of shirt off camera time. Looking like the letter b is kinda embarrassing where as looking more like the letter Y is something you can be proud of.

[jyms]

Philosophy is part of the training business. Sets and reps mean shit if you can't get into someones head the other 23 hours a day.

That is not a good enough reason rong, if it was then you would already be fit, you wouldn't eat shit food, bread, chocolate and takeout/fast food. What would you gain from looking better with your shirt off except some pictures that obviously haven't embarrassed you enough to eat better 95% of the time? What does looking better with your shirt off gain you?

[rong]

Well, it has, kinda, hence me asking this question and using the gf's exercise bike each night while I watch breaking bad (I'm recapping on the whole series in preparation of the new episodes).

[jackvance]

It'd gain you chicks I'd imagine. The fitter I looked the easier it was to attract chicks atleast. Never been muscular like you guys though, just used to be slim. I really should work out again, a girl asked me today for the second time to go jogging together, but I know in practice her bf will never let her go. I'll have to motivate myself somehow. And I actually started jogging, following this 'start to run' program we have, but had to quit because my ankle got all swollen up. That was really demotivating.

[jyms]

Well, it has, kinda, hence me asking this question and using the gf's exercise bike each night while I watch breaking bad (I'm recapping on the whole series in preparation of the new episodes).

Well the best thing I can tell you right off the hop is that you need to eat nothing but Protein and veggies. I usually start people off by getting them to change 3 things. Eat at least 6 cups of vegetables a day. Start getting a healthy fats into your diet. You do that by eating avocados, taking omega 3s and cooking with coconut oil/butter. Lastly, if you eat at least 3 times a day, 7 days a week you have to eat 21 meals minimum, you don't get to cheat on 3 of them. Plan your cheats. If you want chocolate, eat it, but only if it's in the plan? If you want pizza eat it but it has to be planned. You need to know what you're going to eat all day, every day and have the food ready. If you're out with friends, out with the GF, at work or sitting at home and don't know what's planned for lunch, dinner or at the movie then your going to eat shit.

If I know I am going to a movie, or a bday party or to a BBQ on Saturday night then that's my planned cheat, I don't eat a fucking sub for lunch on Thursday. I eat meat and veggies. If I have to look in the fridge to find out what to make for breakfast, or worse, pour a bowl of cereal, then I'm a fucking fat slob and deserve to look the way I do.

[bikes]

IF i had to summerize the solid advice jyms has given me for washboard abs it would be.

less fucking carbs
no more fucking candy
quit drinking god damn soda
more vegatables
more lean proteins.
no more god damn tasty sugar

[rong]

Wait! What? I can't eat cereal?

Also I currently eat 1-2 times per day, plus evening snacks say half the time. I either eat just an evening meal or a lunch and evening meal. Lunch would be s sandwich or pasta dish, dinner will vary from meat and Veg to pasta dishes, meat Veg and potato dishes or like tonight peanut curried chicken with couscous.

Is it ok to maintain the eating schedule but remove crabs or do o need to eat 3 times per day? Also, wtf do you eat for breakfast if not bread or cereal?

[rong]

Also, is the sugar in coffee a big deal?

[eugmac]

f that shit.

[jackvance]

Working out, ok, but I cannot live like that lol

[rong]

IF i had to summerize the solid advice jyms has given me for washboard abs it would be.

less fucking carbs
no more fucking candy
quit drinking god damn soda
more vegatables
more lean proteins.
no more god damn tasty sugar

You sound so happy about it too. How's your abs looking?

[bikes]

You sound so happy about it too. How's your abs looking?

well i havent followed any of it, so IMO i look like shit, but i work out now and i think i weigh 11.2 stones being 1.8m tall. Which I think is absurdly fat and overweight but people tell me I'm being silly and am underweight.

[rong]

It'd bizarre, because I work with both meters and feet in general, but when it comes to peoples height I just can't make sense of meters until I convert them.

[rong]

Having googled it, your an inch of 6 ft so yeah you're skinny. Surely you're allowed carbs, right?

[bikes]

IMO NO. Does that stop me? No.

I can run 5 miles non stop, lift bench and squat as much as I could in the prime of my physical fitness in high school when I could run a 2m12s 800m run and I remain convinced I have an absurdly large gut, and am redic out of shape. No one will convince me otherwise.

edit: blah blah poor self image blah blah blah

[rong]

Bikes, I share your self loathing. For two years now I've worn a t-shirt to bed regardless of the heat because I'm ashamed of my gut. I'm sure its not really bad, it certainly looks fine in clothes, but I hate it.

[Galapogos]

If all you're trying to do is lose your gut then I don't know if you need a total lifestyle change. Yeah you're better off following jym's advice, but to just get things started on a smoother plane, why not take up some sport? I moved away from my hometown for over 5 years, I never looked into finding any teams in my new town so I never did anything that active while living there and got up to 235lb at my heaviest.

I tried half-assed dieting which didn't do much since I kinda didn't really care (back to what jyms was saying about your head not being in it). As soon as I moved back to town I started playing hockey about 4 times a week and the weight dropped insanely fast even while continuing my same eating habits.

While I'm not supremely fit, I'm not fat any more and I'm more interested in actually going back to the gym and setting up a proper diet. I'll find this adjustment much easier than I would have a couple years ago since my body was used to doing nothing at the time.

[jyms]

Your gut is made of chocolate, sugar, bread and grease. It's unfortunate that it's easier to wear a Tshirt to the beach or to bed than it is to put down the shit instead of stuffing it in your mouth.

Yes the sugar in your coffee matters. It's 100 fuel and 0 nutrition. While your burning that fuel your body can't burn fat. Not to mention how shitty and low energy you must feel if you need 5 coffees to function.

[Jack Sawyer]

Philosophy is part of the training business. Sets and reps mean shit if you can't get into someones head the other 23 hours a day.

That is not a good enough reason rong, if it was then you would already be fit, you wouldn't eat shit food, bread, chocolate and takeout/fast food. What would you gain from looking better with your shirt off except some pictures that obviously haven't embarrassed you enough to eat better 95% of the time? What does looking better with your shirt off gain you?

Are wraps (I mean the wrap itself) just as bad as bread?

[Jack Sawyer]

Also, is the sugar in coffee a big deal?

I have used that line alot and it always gets giggles (ergo, it works!).

[wufwugy]

Dan, think of it as a long term, trial and error process. If you do that, you'll for sure get results

Start with going to a gym a few times a week and doing whatever you feel like, and making a conscious effort to just eat a wee better. Then build on that

All things are easy when taken slowly, but all things look hard when you think of them with immediacy

[wufwugy]

Also, you're a scrawny pussy. I'm 5'8" too but weigh 17.2 stone and can still do loads of pull ups

Everybody who says they don't wanna "get built" don't know what it's like to be built

[wufwugy]

P.S. All women love muscle. The ones who claim they don't fall into one of these three categories: (1) they're still in high school, (2) they don't want you to feel bad about yourself, (3) they're intimidated when their man has a better body than they do.

[bikes]

P.S. All women love muscle. The ones who claim they don't fall into one of these three categories: (1) they're still in high school, (2) they don't want you to feel bad about yourself, (3) they're intimidated when their man has a better body than they do.

Hi, I'm wufwugy.

[ChipEaterMan]

I want to look better because I live near the beach, which means lots of shirt off camera time. Looking like the letter b is kinda embarrassing where as looking more like the letter Y is something you can be proud of.

I like women that look like the letter B (CAPS) or the number 3 when looking from the sky. But the ones that look like the number 8 (top view) are the hottest.

[bikes]