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martindcx1e
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09-07-2007, 05:17 AM
Post subject: Simple hand reading exercise
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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I thought this might be a good thing to post in here. What does BB have? Don't answer if you aren't a beginner 
$10NL (8 Players)
Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
saw flop|saw showdown
UTG+1 ($10)
MP1 ($11.35)
MP2 ($9.80)
CO ($16.10)
Button ($3.40)
SB ($10.25)
BB ($10)
Hero ($10.90)
Preflop: Hero is UTG
Hero calls $0.10, 3 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises to $0.6, Hero calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, SB folds.
Flop: ($1.70) 8 , 4 , 3 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.85, CO folds, BB calls $0.85.
Turn: ($3.40) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
River: ($3.40) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
Final Pot: $3.40
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
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I'll play...
Raising 6x from the BB I would assume 99+ or some mixed broadway. If really loose, maybe lower pp or suited connectors trying to buy the pot straight out.
He then checks the flop but only calls a 1/2PSB. So now I'm thinking a made overpair is unlikely 'cause he would have either led out or CR to try and push out your possible OESD. This doesn't happen. But he still likes his hand enough to not be able to lay it down. To me that's probably AK, AQ or KQ. Of these, I can only see AK or AQ making the PF raise OOP. The other option is 56 or A2, altho' I don't really like either of those for the PFR either.
He checks through the turn, so TT is definitely out of the picture. And checks through the 7 , meaning 56 is done... and I didn't really like A2 anyhoo.
So that puts me on AK or AQ.
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Zee Devee
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 694
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Ok here I go:
Preflop: With 2 limpers and SB completing I would put him on a pretty tight range, something like TT+, AJs+, AJo+, KQs
Flop: On that flop with a c/c I don't think he has a med pp, because he would want to raise somewhere in there. I do think that he could see your bet as a steal because it probably did not coordinate with you either (unless you hit a set). Final range here is KK+, AJs+, AJo+.
Turn: Here if he wants to get any money in the pot to pay off his KK+ he should bet, but he could go for a c/r since you lead out last street, so that can't be taken out. Nor can any two high cards that want to see a cheap showdown to keep you honest. Same range: KK+, AJs+, AJo+.
River: With the check behind from you on the turn I would probably think you are done with the hand, or trying to milk out some more money, because your line tells me you have a low to mid pp. So maybe he is scared of a set and checking the river, (but since I see you checked behind you probably don't have a set here otherwise you would have valuebet).
Either way, I cannot narrow down his range (or yours for that matter). I will stay with KK+, AJs+, AJo+.
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Dashi
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
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This is based of the assumption that the villain is tight and not overly aggressive. This is my default assumption when against a new player. But honestly without reads, it makes the exercise rather pointless, unless the point is to see where your default read is against new players.
2 overcards. AK/Q/J, KQ/J. This read doesn't change at all though the corse of the hand. I suppose he could have 77 or 66, but why show the aggression pre-flop if your not willing to test the waters post-flop
I guess the real question is why didn't he c-bet with that flop? Top pair being 8's, preflop play showing no higher than pocket 9's being held by hero and having 2 overcards not c-betting seems retarded in this instance. So if my villain is a moron (high probability at 10NL) then it's overcards. If he has any clue at all I would be thinking set/overpair at the flop. But the turn largely destroys that. Gotta be a twit to give a free card at that point with a made hand. The river just verifies that he is a moron with 2 overcards.
I dunno maybe I'm just tired
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dashi
But honestly without reads, it makes the exercise rather pointless
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definitely don't need a read to figure out what villain has
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Dashi
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
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Quote:
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definitely don't need a read to figure out what villain has
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If all you want to know is that he likely has nothing, in order to safely take down the pot at the river. Then yes you are correct.
If your actually interested in narrowing down his holdings as much as possible, then you can't possibly discount reads.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dashi
But honestly without reads, it makes the exercise rather pointless
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definitely don't need a read to figure out what villain has |
No you don't need a read because he'll turn over his hand at showdown.
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Charas
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 8
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If it's typical $10nl then AA 0r 72o
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
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It looks like AK from a typically weak player. We can't discount the possibility he's slowplaying, though, since they do it too much and for too long. So JJ+ is also in his range here. I don't see a 10nl fish raising a low-mid pp from the bb pre-flop, ditto SCs.Axs is possible but his flop call would be baffling without say A4s. It seems unlikely.
The hands I can't quite figure out are 88-TT. I personally wouldn't play them remotely like this, but I've seen stranger things at the micro-limits.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Why are people putting overpairs in his range here? I mean... maybe really low ones but KK+? Really?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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my question to martin, bion, or pel: you know he doesnt have much, you know he is looking a bit scared, what do you bet the river with and try and take this hand w/o a read that villain "cant fold whiffed AK" or "slowplays 3 streets?"
if you hold QJs, do you try and steal here? AQ? 66?
do you at least need to beat 99? or do you want any pair to fire at river?
or do you just get the cheap showdown, and note him up?
if you figure to be ahead, but arent really sure, do you fire or check it through? i tend to fire, and it gets me in trouble when only better hands call...thats why the question.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Id bet overcards and just check it down with a pair. The key is that alot of his range is Ax type stuff that beats our overcards but not our pairs. Also medium PPs are probably calling a bet after the weakness we have shown so far anyway so a bet with 66 doesnt really fold anything we beat and often gets called when we are behind (e.g. to 99).
If we have QJ we have no showdown value but he folds alot of his range to a bet so we bet. We bet however much we need to get him to fold overcards but we assume he will still call with good hands so we dont go crazy. $1.50 should do it.
(We also bet more on the flop  )
edit: For the same reasons we probably check AK here because it beats all the A high hands anyway and pairs probably call us after this line.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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66
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Id bet overcards and just check it down with a pair. The key is that alot of his range is Ax type stuff that beats our overcards but not our pairs. Also medium PPs are probably calling a bet after the weakness we have shown so far anyway so a bet with 66 doesnt really fold anything we beat and often gets called when we are behind (e.g. to 99).
If we have QJ we have no showdown value but he folds alot of his range to a bet so we bet. We bet however much we need to get him to fold overcards but we assume he will still call with good hands so we dont go crazy. $1.50 should do it.
(We also bet more on the flop )
edit: For the same reasons we probably check AK here because it beats all the A high hands anyway and pairs probably call us after this line. |
sorry to hijack the thread, but here is where i have a ton of issues. so as not to hijack it completely, i will start another thread.
pel, i'm stealing your quote, so i can ask another question.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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This is dumb. Its basically impossible to narrow his range down to anything meaningful based on the mere fact that he raised preflop from the blinds after two limpers.
Here's the meaningful breakdown:
A) Might be a hand
B) Might not.
Obviously the rest of the action leads toward point B, where we figure villain was just trying to take down the preflop dead money.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Let's discuss what your flop bet size with your range is trying to accomplish
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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If you can discuss it that well, talk to 2p2 about writing a book. Thats an obscenely broad topic.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
66
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Am I right?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Hawk
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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I thought a couple high cards as well, but just to be different, pocket dueces.
He is an idiot and raised preflop with his pocket pair, hoping to catch another 2 and make some money with a well hidden set.
It never came and he is at least aware enough to realize that you probably have at least a pair and he's beat.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hawkfan79
I thought a couple high cards as well, but just to be different, pocket dueces.
He is an idiot and raised preflop with his pocket pair, hoping to catch another 2 and make some money with a well hidden set.
It never came and he is at least aware enough to realize that you probably have at least a pair and he's beat.
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Raising any pocket pair from any position is a well-respected strategy with several merits at these stakes. I think he has AK or AQ. Maybe 55 or 66.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Guys stop trying to put him on a hand. Put him on a range.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hawkfan79
I thought a couple high cards as well, but just to be different, pocket dueces.
He is an idiot and raised preflop with his pocket pair, hoping to catch another 2 and make some money with a well hidden set.
It never came and he is at least aware enough to realize that you probably have at least a pair and he's beat.
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raising pocket pairs is a great way to getting them paid. if you open-limp with them, hit your set, and check minraise the flop...thats an idiot.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Zee Devee
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 694
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Why are people putting overpairs in his range here? I mean... maybe really low ones but KK+? Really?
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Because I suck and for the reasons I gave. Pelion (or someone else that agrees my range sucks) could you please explain why my reasoning is faulty?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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because overpairs are the nuts at 10NL and while he might slowplay them, hes very unlikely to slowplay them for 3 streets.
edit: Hand reading is just a comprehension test. Hes smacking you in the face with a big sign that says "I missed this flop". If you bet and he raises then hes lied to you at some point and you can decide whether he lied on the flop or he is lying now and you will also make a note for future hands that this guy is a liar. At the moment the story is coherent so believe it.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
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99.9% AKo
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
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Zee Devee
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Full House
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Question: If you are opp, what range would you put Hero on after the turn?
I ask this because a lot of my range has made a hand here that can beat an overpair. Which is why I said KK+ for his range on the river, because it seems like opp might be scared of being beat or is realllly nitty.
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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I know...
Both players accidentally joined an OmahaH/L game, and are still confused as to why they have four cards.
(Really, this has never happened to me  )
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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Ax, and any two paint. (not including an 8, T, or 2pr)
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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Wow! BB got outta this one super-cheap knowing his KK was beat by hero's AA!
Seriously as a standard exercise I concur that this situation most often results in a showdown where BB has missed overs and Hero has a pair...
If I had to guess I'd agree with BB on AK/AQ and Hero on a non-setted pair like 55/66/99 and less frequently on Hero having paired an sc like 89s.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
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I didn't know I was supposed to guess what Hero had too....
Dammit... and I was feeling pretty good about my AK read and now I gotta go do it ALL over again.......
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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who cares whatever the BB has for a hand, the hero should have stole the pot
jack sawyer--> nice av
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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Hawk
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Raising any pocket pair from any position is a well-respected strategy with several merits at these stakes. I think he has AK or AQ. Maybe 55 or 66.
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Personally, I'd rather hope to see the flop as cheaply as possible and hope for the set, but then again I know that I'm too tight/passive so I guess this just confirms it. My problem is that I always pick the wrong spots to be aggressive, and when I try to make myself be more aggressive I pick the wrong spots and get burned. This is my main goal now...learn to get away from these tendencies.
Do you guys think that if he had 22 here that he'd bet again, just for the fact that he does have at least a pair, or would most players at this level assume they are beat there?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
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i feel that when you raise, maybe even 3bet in the right spots, with pp's, you have many more options to win a pot.
-hit your set with an A or K up and string them along
-cbet dry flop with an A or K
-check into a passive opponent for a possible free/scare card
its no longer "no set, no bet" in a raised pot, but its easier to get it in when a 2nd best thinks youre full of shit.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
99.9% AKo
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ding ding ding 
I had 55.
When villain check/calls the flop after a pfr like that he has missed overs like 99% of the time. I immediately put him on AK and checked the turn hoping to induce a river bet which I wouldn't have been able to call fast enough. I probably could've bet the river on the off chance that he would actually call, but he's folding there like 99% of the time, and I wanted to see if my read was right. Some of the answers were pretty interesting. Seriously guys...AA? KK? Villain's line is about the strangest line I can think of for such a hand.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
i feel that when you raise, maybe even 3bet in the right spots, with pp's, you have many more options to win a pot.
-hit your set with an A or K up and string them along
-cbet dry flop with an A or K
-check into a passive opponent for a possible free/scare card
its no longer "no set, no bet" in a raised pot, but its easier to get it in when a 2nd best thinks youre full of shit.
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ya i've gone back and forth a few times on the whole raising all pairs from all positions thing. one good thing i can see from it is if you are in position getting a free turn almost every time. at low stakes i think it is unnecessary though as far as "getting paid" goes. also, there will be a lot of times where you are just spewing left and right with your cbets while not hitting a set for like 14 times in a row.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
66
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Am I right? |
that gets my vote too.
Or 2 overcards but not AK
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
66
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Am I right? |
that gets my vote too.
Or 2 overcards but not AK |
why not AK?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
99.9% AKo
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ding ding ding
I had 55.
When villain check/calls the flop after a pfr like that he has missed overs like 99% of the time. |
Wow you're so wrong
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
99.9% AKo
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ding ding ding
I had 55.
When villain check/calls the flop after a pfr like that he has missed overs like 99% of the time. |
Wow you're so wrong |
alright well in my experience anyways...what else does this that fits the preflop action? small/medium pairs generally don't raise in the bb there and big pairs generally don't c/c there.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
66
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Am I right? |
that gets my vote too.
Or 2 overcards but not AK |
I just feel AK bets the flop.
But I suck at NLH so my opinion doesn't count.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
I just feel AK bets the flop.
But I suck at NLH so my opinion doesn't count.
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lol ok. while i agree that AK usually cbets here i think that the preflop action combined with the c/c line fits AK best.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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This thread is meaningless without reads
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
This thread is meaningless
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Yea, there is just so little action and with zero reads on the BOTH players it becomes very difficult to even begin to break their ranges down.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
99.9% AKo
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ding ding ding
I had 55.
When villain check/calls the flop after a pfr like that he has missed overs like 99% of the time. I immediately put him on AK and checked the turn hoping to induce a river bet which I wouldn't have been able to call fast enough. I probably could've bet the river on the off chance that he would actually call, but he's folding there like 99% of the time, and I wanted to see if my read was right. Some of the answers were pretty interesting. Seriously guys...AA? KK? Villain's line is about the strangest line I can think of for such a hand. |
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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I figured AK.. if this was 100NL we would be more likely to put him on a mid PP than AK because AK c-bets most of the time.. right?
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
I figured AK.. if this was 100NL we would be more likely to put him on a mid PP than AK because AK c-bets most of the time.. right?
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but does a mid pp make that pfr very often? i don't think it does.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
This thread is meaningless without reads
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how do you figure? villain's line is so freaking transparent. a read is completely unnnecessary to figure his hand out. you can't always have a read. are 75% of the hh's in the hh forum meaningless since they are vs. unknowns?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
This thread is meaningless without reads
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how do you figure? villain's line is so freaking transparent. a read is completely unnnecessary to figure his hand out. you can't always have a read. are 75% of the hh's in the hh forum meaningless since they are vs. unknowns? |
lol NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
AT $10nl there are players who don't raise PF with AK, the one's who do certainly usually cbet.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
This thread is meaningless without reads
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how do you figure? villain's line is so freaking transparent. a read is completely unnnecessary to figure his hand out. you can't always have a read. are 75% of the hh's in the hh forum meaningless since they are vs. unknowns? |
lol NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
AT $10nl there are players who don't raise PF with AK, the one's who do certainly usually cbet. |
i just think his pfr from the bb like that followed by the really weak c/c narrows down his hand tremendously. c/c with missed AK happens a lot too from what i've seen this time around. certainly not as much as cbetting but it happens a fair amount.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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why the fuck is a 10nl hand possibly taking this long of a thread to talk about
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
This thread is meaningless without reads
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how do you figure? villain's line is so freaking transparent. a read is completely unnnecessary to figure his hand out. you can't always have a read. are 75% of the hh's in the hh forum meaningless since they are vs. unknowns? |
lol NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
AT $10nl there are players who don't raise PF with AK, the one's who do certainly usually cbet. |
I see this alot, even at 200NL on fishy sites. Lots of fish never c-bet.
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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