Which boards would you c-bet?

With $0.10/0.20 blinds and $20 effective stacks, you open the CO to $0.60 and the big blind calls. The big blind is 15/12 at FR or 21/18 at 6m over about 250 hands, and 3-bets about 7% from the big blind, folding his blinds 82% over that sample. He has folded to a c-bet 48%, raising c-bets 18% over the sample. He checks the flop. What is your c-betting range (with sizing) on the following boards, considering the pot is $1.30 with $19.40 behind?

1. Q 9 6
2. K 9 9
3. A T 9
4. T 8 5
5. 9 3 4
6. J 9 2
7. 7 3 3
8. 8 6 2
9. A 9 4
10. J 7 3

1. This flop hits his flatting range pretty hard and he's liable to semibluff his gutters and OESDs so I think I'm betting around 2/3p with TPs and good draws, AK, x'ing back 9x, TT and the like
2. close to 1/2p
3. x back w/o equity, 3/4p with
4. don't mind a x vs his range and low f2cb%. betting 3/4p w/ TP & decent draws, overs
5. same as 4
6. 2/3 - 3/4p, don't mind x back w/air, low pairs
7. 1/2 - 2/3p
8. close to pot with TPs+ & good FDs, x back rest
9. 2/3p
10. 2/3p

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

With $0.10/0.20 blinds and $20 effective stacks, you open the CO to $0.60 and the big blind calls. The big blind is 15/12 at FR or 21/18 at 6m over about 250 hands, and 3-bets about 7% from the big blind, folding his blinds 82% over that sample. He has folded to a c-bet 48%, raising c-bets 18% over the sample. He checks the flop. What is your c-betting range (with sizing) on the following boards, considering the pot is $1.30 with $19.40 behind?

1. Q 9 6
2. K 9 9
3. A T 9
4. T 8 5
5. 9 3 4
6. J 9 2
7. 7 3 3
8. 8 6 2
9. A 9 4
10. J 7 3

To be begin we need to figure out his range. He plays 18% of all hands and 3 bets about third of them. So what does this look like?

The 7% 3 bet is prob something like: {KK+,AKs,A9s-A2s,K9s-K2s,AKo} Maybe QQ is in there maybe it isn't but meh. Close enough. BTW if this guy folds to 4 bets everything that isn't premium he is extremely exploitable via 4 bets.

The other 11% now has to look something like: {QQ-22,AQs-ATs,KJs+,QJs,JTs,AQo-ATo,KJo+} I realize many would make the argument that 22-55 don't belong, but many regs will play it.

With this in mind. Also note that we need a raise or over bet pot to get stacks in.

1. Q 9 6
So on this flop his calling range is QJs,KQ,77-88,TT-JJ, maybe AQ but that may be in his raising range (though that would be dumb, though how else to do you get 18% check raise) His raising range would be QQ+,99,66,AQs,JTs,AQo

Bet 1.2 66,99,QQ+, Qx Prob get it in with everything except Qx (though Q9 and AQ I prob am fine) (Also I have Qxs in my range so I prob bet all of those fold them to his raise as well)

Check back my 9x, TT-JJ,88,77,6x (except 69s, which isn't in my stealing range)
bet .80 with JT,AJ, AK 22-55, Axs with back door draws call raise JT depending on sizing.

That's all I have for now. This takes way too long. So may not finish it.

Originally Posted by !Luck

That's all I have for now. This takes way too long. So may not finish it.

Ah yes, the motto of champions: "It's hard and takes too long so I quit."

Better to do one well then 10 crappy

Better to do 10 well than 1 crappy.

Why is 22 in your betting range but ATo isn't? Where are 87 and T8?

I agree 87 should be in my cbetting range, prob ATo but would have to run the numbers. Now just think how useless my response would be if I tried all 10.

I decided to type out a response to the first question. Here it is.

Our opponent seems like he's going to rarely have big pocket pairs or AK in his range here, but without reads on what he likes to 3-bet otherwise, it's hard to say outside of that. We can probably be expecting him to raise some sort of balanced or semi-balanced range on most boards, and to call with a lot of medium strength hands; though he is OOP here, so he will probably do this less.

Our range for opening the CO here without BU or SB reads will probably be something like broadways, suited Aces, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s-64s, T9s-54s, 22+ with some minor variation around the edges.

1. Q 9 6 - This flop is cool because it's very wet for our typical range, but not very wet for his. What I mean is that we have a lot of straight draws (JT, 87, T8 plus tons of gutshots) and lots of broadways with both backdoor flush and backdoor straight draws, but it's hard for him to have a huge range of draws to play around with himself.

He's probably calling as low as TT and as high as AQ or KQ. That gives a range (with # of combos in parenthesis) of something like QQ(?), 99(6), 66(?), AQ(?), KQ(12), QJ(?), JJ(?), TT(6) of the hands he's not folding for the purpose of getting to a showdown. If we estimate that he'll have about 1 combo of QQ, 6 of 99, 2 of 66, 8 of AQ, 12 of KQ, 8 of QJ, 5 of JJ, and 6 of TT, then the midpoint of his range is about at the edge between AQ and KQ. So all the hands AQ+ are probably +EV in a vacuum for us to value bet.

Since he doesn't have many draws in his range at all, it's hard for him to add a lot of bluffs before he's spewing. For that reason, I don't think we have any reason to expect that we will have +EV semibluffs (3-betting) in a vacuum. Moreover, I wouldn't expect him to look to exploit us by raising a very wide range without history, so my 3-betting range is going to be very unbalanced with the first possible 3-bet bluffing hand being JTs+bdfd.

We could choose to have no 3-betting range at all. If I chose this plan, then I might lose some minor EV with a hand like AQ that can be more vulnerable to free cards since a K can hit, but I'm not all that thrilled to stack off with it on the flop anyway. With that in mind, I think I would bet/call with some range down to about KK, then bet/fold down to about KQ or QJ.

On the bluffing end of the betting spectrum, I would expect semi-bluffs with a gutshot to be +EV in a vacuum, and would be betting all of them along with all OESDs, broadways with a bdfd, and all AK/AJ/AT.

Then I would check everything else, along with QQ and some non-zero amount of AA/AQ/KQ hands so he can't just bet turns and put me in a difficult spot.

Spoon,

Can add sizing to your post?

When you say not having a 3 bet range means that you will just call check raises with your sets on the flop?

Thanks,
!luck

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

With $0.10/0.20 blinds and $20 effective stacks, you open the CO to $0.60 and the big blind calls. The big blind is 15/12 at FR or 21/18 at 6m over about 250 hands, and 3-bets about 7% from the big blind, folding his blinds 82% over that sample. He has folded to a c-bet 48%, raising c-bets 18% over the sample. He checks the flop. What is your c-betting range (with sizing) on the following boards, considering the pot is $1.30 with $19.40 behind?

1. Q 9 6
2. K 9 9
3. A T 9
4. T 8 5
5. 9 3 4
6. J 9 2
7. 7 3 3
8. 8 6 2
9. A 9 4
10. J 7 3

What does our opponent think our range is?

Is this FR or 6-max for SOL purposes?

Based on game flow does villain appear to be thinking about ranges?

The stat that catches my eye the most is his fold to c-bet. What is his fold to c-bet oop? Assuming he floats oop a lot this would be a bad board to c-bet with air as more than half his range is floating. I would want a number of clean outs before c-betting here with plans to barrel a ton of turns and rivers. One and done here is bad.

On all hands I would look to open up my value range a bit, trying to get 2 streets with B range type hands. Typically 1st and 2nd streets on drawy boards, 1st and 3rd streets on dry ones.

Bet sizing- Varies based on the above as well as every single hand in our range, which we don't know.

Originally Posted by !Luck

To be begin we need to figure out his range. He plays 18% of all hands and 3 bets about third of them. So what does this look like?

The 7% 3 bet is prob something like: {KK+,AKs,A9s-A2s,K9s-K2s,AKo} Maybe QQ is in there maybe it isn't but meh. Close enough. BTW if this guy folds to 4 bets everything that isn't premium he is extremely exploitable via 4 bets.

The other 11% now has to look something like: {QQ-22,AQs-ATs,KJs+,QJs,JTs,AQo-ATo,KJo+} I realize many would make the argument that 22-55 don't belong, but many regs will play it.

With this in mind. Also note that we need a raise or over bet pot to get stacks in.

1. Q 9 6
So on this flop his calling range is QJs,KQ,77-88,TT-JJ, maybe AQ but that may be in his raising range (though that would be dumb, though how else to do you get 18% check raise) His raising range would be QQ+,99,66,AQs,JTs,AQo

Bet 1.2 66,99,QQ+, Qx Prob get it in with everything except Qx (though Q9 and AQ I prob am fine) (Also I have Qxs in my range so I prob bet all of those fold them to his raise as well)

Check back my 9x, TT-JJ,88,77,6x (except 69s, which isn't in my stealing range)
bet .80 with JT,AJ, AK 22-55, Axs with back door draws call raise JT depending on sizing.

That's all I have for now. This takes way too long. So may not finish it.

Thinking opponents typically polarize their flop raising range between air with outs and strong but vulnerable hands. On your example I would think he is more likely to raise J10, 78, Q9 and 96 and call with hands like QQ, 99, 66, Qx

Originally Posted by Outlaw

What does our opponent think our range is?

Is this FR or 6-max for SOL purposes?

Based on game flow does villain appear to be thinking about ranges?

The stat that catches my eye the most is his fold to c-bet. What is his fold to c-bet oop? Assuming he floats oop a lot this would be a bad board to c-bet with air as more than half his range is floating. I would want a number of clean outs before c-betting here with plans to barrel a ton of turns and rivers. One and done here is bad.

On all hands I would look to open up my value range a bit, trying to get 2 streets with B range type hands. Typically 1st and 2nd streets on drawy boards, 1st and 3rd streets on dry ones.

Bet sizing- Varies based on the above as well as every single hand in our range, which we don't know.

Induce pot control.

Assuming I raised and then missed the flop, I'd cbet flops 2, 3, 6 and 9. Maybe 8 too, depends how stoned I am and if it's foggy outside.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Assuming I raised and then missed the flop, I'd cbet flops 2, 3, 6 and 9. Maybe 8 too, depends how stoned I am and if it's foggy outside.

Try reading the post before you reply?

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Try reading the post before you reply?

Ok, I was on break and had a glance. Later.

Entire range 1/2 the pot for all hands.

I could be wrong but If you c-bet 1/2 the pot on every flop you win $6.24 since he folds to c-bet 48% of the time. Assume we dump the hand the 52% of the time he does something else (even though we wouldn't) we would lose $.65 a hand for a total of $3.38 on those. so we end up making $2.86 so without even thinking about anything our 1/2 pot c-bet is +.28 EV.

But some of those times we will have equity and/or he will just call and we would have to re-evaluate on the turn. Meaning we would win some of those too by barreling and whatnot. And thats assuming you fold to every 3-bet.

So bet it and forget it ----- Poker is easy!!!! The problem is he will try to adjust to this and play back more but as long as he's folding at least 33% of the time we are at worst breaking even.


This might not be optimal but it's winning based on his stats.

Well my CO opening range when these guys are in the blinds prob looks something like this for FR:

22+,A2s+,KTs+,Q9s+,J8s+,T7s+,97s+,86s+,76s,65s,54s ,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo,T9o,98o,87o,76o

I'd be folding a crapton to his 3B's but I don't think he's 3B'ing enough to exploit my wide opening range, plus he's folding to 82% of opens as it is.

I'll do the first 3 flops cause I'm heading out soon:

Flop 1: 1. Q 9 6

Here I'd cbet something close to

99+,66,AQs+,AsJs,AsTs,A9s,As6s,KTs+,Q9s+,J9s+,T8s+ ,Ts7s,98s,87s,65s,AQo+,A9o,KTo+,QTo+,JTo,87o

This equates to about 50% of my opening range

I'd cbet 2/3 pot with pretty much all of my range

Flop 2: K 9 9

Here my cbetting range would be:

22,A2s+,KTs+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,97s+,87s,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+ ,JTo,T9o,98o

This equates to about 75% of my opening range

I would c-bet for 1/2 pot or less with my whole range, planning on barreling a whole bunch of turns for 2/3 pot or more

flop 3: A T 9

Here my flop c-betting range would look similar to:

99+,A9s+,KhQh,KhJh,QJs,Qh9h,JTs,Jh9h,J8s,T9s,9h8h, 9h7h,8h7h,8h6h,7h6h,65s,5h4h,A9o+,KQo,KTo,QTo+,JTo ,T9o,87o

This equates to about 50% of my opening range

and my sizing would be from 3/4 to 4/5 pot

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I decided to type out a response to the first question. Here it is.

Our opponent seems like he's going to rarely have big pocket pairs or AK in his range here, but without reads on what he likes to 3-bet otherwise, it's hard to say outside of that. We can probably be expecting him to raise some sort of balanced or semi-balanced range on most boards, and to call with a lot of medium strength hands; though he is OOP here, so he will probably do this less.

Our range for opening the CO here without BU or SB reads will probably be something like broadways, suited Aces, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s-64s, T9s-54s, 22+ with some minor variation around the edges.

1. Q 9 6 - This flop is cool because it's very wet for our typical range, but not very wet for his. What I mean is that we have a lot of straight draws (JT, 87, T8 plus tons of gutshots) and lots of broadways with both backdoor flush and backdoor straight draws, but it's hard for him to have a huge range of draws to play around with himself.

He's probably calling as low as TT and as high as AQ or KQ. That gives a range (with # of combos in parenthesis) of something like QQ(?), 99(6), 66(?), AQ(?), KQ(12), QJ(?), JJ(?), TT(6) of the hands he's not folding for the purpose of getting to a showdown. If we estimate that he'll have about 1 combo of QQ, 6 of 99, 2 of 66, 8 of AQ, 12 of KQ, 8 of QJ, 5 of JJ, and 6 of TT, then the midpoint of his range is about at the edge between AQ and KQ. So all the hands AQ+ are probably +EV in a vacuum for us to value bet.

Since he doesn't have many draws in his range at all, it's hard for him to add a lot of bluffs before he's spewing. For that reason, I don't think we have any reason to expect that we will have +EV semibluffs (3-betting) in a vacuum. Moreover, I wouldn't expect him to look to exploit us by raising a very wide range without history, so my 3-betting range is going to be very unbalanced with the first possible 3-bet bluffing hand being JTs+bdfd.

We could choose to have no 3-betting range at all. If I chose this plan, then I might lose some minor EV with a hand like AQ that can be more vulnerable to free cards since a K can hit, but I'm not all that thrilled to stack off with it on the flop anyway. With that in mind, I think I would bet/call with some range down to about KK, then bet/fold down to about KQ or QJ.

On the bluffing end of the betting spectrum, I would expect semi-bluffs with a gutshot to be +EV in a vacuum, and would be betting all of them along with all OESDs, broadways with a bdfd, and all AK/AJ/AT.

Then I would check everything else, along with QQ and some non-zero amount of AA/AQ/KQ hands so he can't just bet turns and put me in a difficult spot.

Thanks for posting this in full. It gives a good clear 'logic' process that helps.
More of the same please.

Originally Posted by Wikkiwikki

Entire range 1/2 the pot for all hands.

I could be wrong but If you c-bet 1/2 the pot on every flop you win $6.24 since he folds to c-bet 48% of the time. Assume we dump the hand the 52% of the time he does something else (even though we wouldn't) we would lose $.65 a hand for a total of $3.38 on those. so we end up making $2.86 so without even thinking about anything our 1/2 pot c-bet is +.28 EV.

But some of those times we will have equity and/or he will just call and we would have to re-evaluate on the turn. Meaning we would win some of those too by barreling and whatnot. And thats assuming you fold to every 3-bet.

So bet it and forget it ----- Poker is easy!!!! The problem is he will try to adjust to this and play back more but as long as he's folding at least 33% of the time we are at worst breaking even.


This might not be optimal but it's winning based on his stats.

But the idea's to make the most money possible, not just 'make money', so...not really

Originally Posted by Wikkiwikki

Entire range 1/2 the pot for all hands.

I could be wrong but If you c-bet 1/2 the pot on every flop you win $6.24 since he folds to c-bet 48% of the time. Assume we dump the hand the 52% of the time he does something else (even though we wouldn't) we would lose $.65 a hand for a total of $3.38 on those. so we end up making $2.86 so without even thinking about anything our 1/2 pot c-bet is +.28 EV.

But some of those times we will have equity and/or he will just call and we would have to re-evaluate on the turn. Meaning we would win some of those too by barreling and whatnot. And thats assuming you fold to every 3-bet.

So bet it and forget it ----- Poker is easy!!!! The problem is he will try to adjust to this and play back more but as long as he's folding at least 33% of the time we are at worst breaking even.


This might not be optimal but it's winning based on his stats.

With that kind of logic we could just minbet every flop and stack money.

His stats don't mean he's folding 48% of the time on these flops. Consider his range and how he's going to play it, then go from there.

Yeah i didn't mean to oversimplify but I guess what I'm trying to say is the default play should be to bet. He flatted OOP and checked the flop. You have to have a really good reason not to bet.

Because of that I'm not sure how relevant my range here is except maybe on later streets if we have equity. I think determining his flatting range will tell us if we should bet or not, barrel etc.

Maybe something like this for his flatting range AT-AQ/KJ+/QTs+/22-QQ/98s-QJs something like 12%


1. Q 9 6
2. K 9 9
3. A T 9
4. T 8 5
5. 9 3 4
6. J 9 2
7. 7 3 3
8. 8 6 2
9. A 9 4
10. J 7 3


1. Misses the majority of his range so c-bet about 2/3 the pot and look to barrel a ton of good turn cards. Even his top pair type hands are vulnerable (easily dominated) and 2 streets of aggression could easily push him off the best hand.

2. This also misses most of his range only 5 cards hit this flop. I would alternate between 1/2 pot c-bets and/or checking back and reraising or betting turn. If called on the flop I would barrel the turn and c/f after that.

3. This hits a ton of his range straights flushes top pair etc so I would check back and reevaluate on turn unless we had equity or a big draw. All the draws are calling.

4. Misses him so like 3/4 pot c-bet and look to barrel any high cards.

5. similar to 4 c-bet 3/4 pot and look to barrel all high cards and clubs.

6. hits him pretty hard - with straights flushes and pairs. Check back without equity. or 1/2 pot your draws as semi-bluff

7. misses everyone and he will most likely float to any c-bet even with 2 overs. Check back and look to either re-raise him on the turn or bet out if checked to. 2/3 pot with any overpair/equity.

8. c-bet 2/3 the pot on flush board and barrel the turn. he will float with a high club but fold to the 2nd bet unimproved. He will also float with his 1 pair hands likely and fold to the turn agression.

9. great flop to c-bet 2/3 pot, any hand he calls with is easily dominated and wont stand up to a double barrel. Would barrel the turn most times if called.

10. almost the same as 9. 2/3 pot c-bet and look to barrel. even if he calls with j-10 type hand you may get him to fold it out on the turn, especially if high cards come.

Originally Posted by Wikkiwikki

Yeah i didn't mean to oversimplify but I guess what I'm trying to say is the default play should be to bet. He flatted OOP and checked the flop. You have to have a really good reason not to bet.

Again, I'm going to have to suggest you re-read the OP and try to answer the question being asked. It starts with "What is your c-betting range..."

Shouldn't we be thinking of his range here? My cards are kind of irrelevant aren't they?. I would bet based on his range I'm the captain and can rep a ton of hands. the only betting changes I would make to my above post is when I had equity in spots where I would normally fold, otherwise I would do that for my entire range. It's not really about the cards here its about position and knowing what he has vs. the flop texture and what I can rep.

I guess I'm trying to see the relevance of my range here. Help me understand......
Are we trying to match up his range and our range??? If so, why if we can rep a ton of hands???

Thanks in advance....

The problem is you're saying you either bet the flop or you don't with your entire range, and that doesn't make sense.

First my range for opening CO
22+ ATo+ any Axs 56s+ 57s+ K9s+ Q9s+ I will say all broadways but this is actually dependent on villains behind me as so often you flop nothing worth a wank without any real way to improve.
I don’t raise unsuited connectors or unsuited Aces lower than AT, this may change in the future but this is still a whole lot wider than it used to be.

For villains range, 15/12 is pretty much what I play slightly more, suggesting Tagg and 3 bets 7% from BB so positionaly aware.
What a 7% 3 bet from BB looks like guessing he has some bluffs and some value raises so QQ+ AK for value
A2o-A6o would leave us at 7.1 but I think we can say he would 3 bet all off suit Aces to A8 and maybe some small suited ones too some of the time some times folding sometimes calling especially the suited ones.
So what would a positionaly aware Tagg call a CO steal with from the BB.


22-JJ (this is sometimes not the case but at micros people cant fold small pps that set value is just to tempting) alot of broadways particularly suited ones including J9s Q9s K9s and prolly all suited Aces A9o+ I don’t think that they would be calling many s/cs if any heads up OOP.


Qs,9c,6d,

What I expect villain to fold:
22-55 77-88 (some of the time) Ax without 9, not much really. He raises flop a massive 18% so what does he bluff prolly a lot of straight draw gutters pretty much any broadway combo. He prolly also raises sets 99,66. This leaves a very bluff heavy raise flop range
What he calls
Qx 9x TT JJ JT 77-88(some of the time)

Prolly gonna fire 2/3 PSB with value hands KK+ Qx JT 78 66 99 QQ and fire as a bluff small pairs, connectors with gutters, 6x, Axs with BD. Checking back pairs 77 88 TT JJ 9x Ax without equity including AK

Ks,9c,9d,

What I expect villain to fold; most missed broadways, missed Ax small PP 22-55

calls 66+ Kx. raises mostly value here 9x and maybe the odd bluff with QT type hand

prolly gonna fire smaller little over 1/2 pot with prolly my entire range -TT-QQ.

Ah,Th,9c,

Villain folds; pps bellow 88 broadways without hearts or openended straight draws
calls Ax JQ raises broadways with hearts AT A9 TT 99

I c bet 2/3 to pot AT+all broadways scs with hearts 99 TT AA. checking back 22-KK without the sets might also check back some low Ax scs without hearts

wow this has taken me ages, I'll come back to it later.

6m here. My CO range unmodified is 22+, A2s+, A9+, Q9s, QT+, K9s, KT+, JT, JQ+. (At the micros, BTN flats often enough I have to have a tigher CO range than I prefer). Assuming a competant reg here (which is highly unusual at my stakes).

I'd wager his range is 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs+, AT, AJ, AQo. I'll remove AA, KK AK and QQ because I think he'll tend 3b those. Until I know more about him, I can't make assumptions about whether he 3bs polarized or not, or if hes 3bing stuff like AQ for vaule.

1. Q 9 6

His continuing range to a cbet is 88+, A9s, AQ, QT, QJ, KQ. I think hes raising a mixture of his solid vaule range (sets, some combos of AQ) and some semibluffs and draws (JT, maybe KT). Some of his set range will call and raise a turn barrel (I think his turn raising range will be very unbalanced, exclusively towards solid vaule). I'm pretty sure hes not going to raise something like KQ though. I also think hes not just going to just call his draws but play them aggresively.

The weak part of his cbet calling range are 88(6),TT(6),JJ(6),A9s(6) for a total of 24 combos. His stronger part is AQ(16), KQ(16), QJ(16), QT(16) for a total of 64 combos. A little under a 1/3 of his vaule range are going to find the turn difficult, and will probally fold the turn unimproved. The rest can call atleast 2 barrels. I hesitate to predict how he calls down to 3 barrels without more information, but I tend to think he'd call 3 with AQ and KQ atleast. I might be able to remove some of the weaker Qs from his range, depending on the player.

Looking at his range, hes raising a fairly strong range on the flop thats weighted towards vaule. At this range I want to only reshove my strongest hands (all sets) and call with AQ and maybe KQ and eval the turn (is this making a mistake?).

My range for this board is sets, Q9, AQ and KQ and all gutters and 1 over +BDFD hands (AKs, AJs) which I think is EV+. I'd also bet 22-66, all unpaired As. Sizing for my whole betting range is 1$. I would check behind my other paired Q hands, PPs 77+ and the rest of my unimproved broadways. Checking with these hands allows me to get vaule from some of his air that bets the turn, improve my unimproved broadways, to pot control against stronger Q's that might've outkicked me. It also just makes it harder for him to play against me. I would most likely fold if he barreled both turn and river without reads.

First time I've ever tried doing this, so just tell me how this attempt is, and how I can improve it. I'll do the rest over time, that hurt my brain in a good way.