*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[BananaStand]

Any psychologist with a clue about anything knows that it is an absolute waste of time to try and help someone who genuinely doesn't want to change. You can't just put someone in a "healthcare program" (whatever that is) and expect them to get better. They have to WANT to be there. And if they truly do desire change, then they've already made the monumental breakthrough of realizing that their problems aren't with the world, but rather with the way they interacts with the world.

Someone intent on mass-murder does not have those thoughts. They just don't.

So, I'm wondering how Oskar expects these "health care programs" to reduce mass-murder. And the only explanation that fits...is sorcery.

If that's wrong then Oskar, or anyone else, is welcome to posit an explanation for how a government funded social welfare program is going to change someone who doesn't want to be changed.

[OngBonga]

I don't even agree with him. I think psychologists can help those who don't want to be helped, or at least maybe encourage someone into reflecting on their behaviour and perhaps sewing the seed of someone wanting to change.

Shrinks can do great things if they understand what's going on in someone's head better than the individual does himself.

[BananaStand]

I think psychologists can help those who don't want to be helped,

False. This really isn't debatable. I mean, sure you can have your opinion. But do know that it's objectively wrong.

[OngBonga]

That said, I don't think a shrink is better placed to stop school shootings than a specially trained armed teacher.

[BananaStand]

That said, I don't think a shrink is better placed to stop school shootings than a specially trained armed teacher.

Explain how that's possible without magic

[OngBonga]

Explain how that's possible without magic

Um... read it again. Slowly.

[CoccoBill]

Someone intent on mass-murder does not have those thoughts. They just don't.

How do u know? Fwiw, "they just don't" and "it just is" are often clear signs of cognitive dissonance.

[BananaStand]

How do u know? Fwiw, "they just don't" and "it just is" are often clear signs of cognitive dissonance.

The thoughts that drive mass-murder are anger at the world. Anger at "being" itself. It's a position of hopelessness that the thinker believes can only be remedied through the introduction of huge amounts of chaos.

That kind of thinking is completely incompatible with a desire to improve one's own life through improving their perceptions and interactions with the world.

A person obsessively and purposefully driven towards chaos can't also be seeking order.

[Poopadoop]

It's a position of hopelessness that the thinker believes can only be remedied through the introduction of huge amounts of chaos.

Reminds me of a certain orange person I keep hearing about in the news.

That kind of thinking is completely incompatible with a desire to improve one's own life through improving their perceptions and interactions with the world.

Presumably that way of thinking isn't ingrained, otherwise it would afflict six year olds too and they would go on killing rampages. If the development of that way of thinking could be arrested or channeled in some more positive direction, then prevention seems possible.

[BananaStand]

Presumably that way of thinking isn't ingrained, otherwise it would afflict six year olds too and they would go on killing rampages. If the development of that way of thinking could be arrested or channeled in some more positive direction, then prevention seems possible.

Well, we can debate this. But assume for a minute I'll stipulate

The kind of evaluations, identifications, and classifications that go into this would be so invasive that I would rather live in a world with mass-shootings.

Like...we could end rape if we just castrated all the men. I'd rather people get raped.

[CoccoBill]

The thoughts that drive mass-murder are anger at the world. Anger at "being" itself. It's a position of hopelessness that the thinker believes can only be remedied through the introduction of huge amounts of chaos.

That kind of thinking is completely incompatible with a desire to improve one's own life through improving their perceptions and interactions with the world.

Well it's great your clairvoyance extends to mass-murderers too. Unfortunately it isn't as black and white as in your world. There are a multitude of reasons and motivations behind them, but there's nothing to suggest that they're not detectable, preventable and treatable. They're not caused by physical deficiencies, traits or conditions. I'm not talking about medication, that's the aspect of psychiatry where I agree with you, diagnoses and prescriptions are handed out way too easily. Then again therapy, counseling and other preventive measures definitely have their place and should be used more.

[BananaStand]

Then again therapy, counseling and other preventive measures definitely have their place and should be used more.

These remedies can only be used on someone who doesn't want them through force. Using these methods through force has been proven ineffective.

what are you not getting?

[Poopadoop]

These remedies can only be used on someone who doesn't want them through force. Using these methods through force has been proven ineffective.

Again, making the assumption the person is born that way and never wanted help before they became a psychopath. Maybe had they received help in time, they wouldn't have ended up with the mindset that mass murder is a better option than seeking help.

[BananaStand]

Again, making the assumption the person is born that way and never wanted help before they became a psychopath. Maybe had they received help in time, they wouldn't have ended up with the mindset that mass murder is a better option than seeking help.

And you think the government stands a chance at accomplishing this???

[CoccoBill]

These remedies can only be used on someone who doesn't want them through force. Using these methods through force has been proven ineffective.

what are you not getting?

Your lack of understanding. Do you think mass-murderers are born that way, that all we can do about them is shoot first?