Trump Believes He is Starring in the Second Season of an Apprentice Spinoff

[Poopadoop]

I got bored of waiting for your list, so here's Al-jazeera's...
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...124754885.html


This is very unlikely to be discrimination. People have better job prospects if they are educated. People are more likely to be better educated if they have a stable family life. Immigrants are less likely to be educated to the same degree as natives. So it's perfectly logical that minorities find it harder to get a job, when we look at general statistics. An educated black person in the UK will have better job prospects than I have.



I'm also far more likely to be mugged by a non-white in Britain. Further, non-whites are more likely to be poor, for the reason stated above... less job prospects. Thus, non-whites are more likely to turn to crime. Non-white youths are more likely to be hanging around in gangs, or loitering and acting suspiciously, so this is again perfectly logical.


Gypsies are more likely to be excluded from school. I wonder if that has anything to do with their upbringing? They are much more likely to start fights, and since their parents are more likely to be poorly educated, then they kids are more likely to be poorly educated.


This is a combination of the first point, coupled with ancestral legacy... inheritance.


Al-jazeera used the term "drug abuse victims", but I prefer the term "addict", since it emphasises personal responsibility on the matter. Noone is forcing anyone to take illegal drugs. And again this comes to the first point... I am also more likely to be a drug addict than, say, a white man the same age as me who is better educated than I am. In fact, replace white man with black man and my point still stands.

The last point they make is about minorities feeling "British", not really a matter of discrimination, more refuting the argument that they don't integrate. I recognise that many immigrants do successfuly integrate, I'm not disputing this point. Those who don't... it isn't because of racism, it's because they lack the skills or motivation required.

So basically you're saying there's an advantage to being born white in the UK?

[Poopadoop]

Here's an example:

Where I grew up, I was occasionally stopped by police and questioned for being over the legal limit of Native American blood. I was perfectly innocent on every occasion, either driving down a road or walking down a street, in broad daylight. And there was no other reason to stop me other than me being a suspicious colour. This did not happen to my white friends. Would you say they had an advantage over me in the sense of being allowed to go about their business unmolested?

[BananaStand]

Where I grew up, I was occasionally stopped by police and questioned for being over the legal limit of Native American blood. I was perfectly innocent on every occasion, either driving down a road or walking down a street, in broad daylight. And there was no other reason to stop me other than me being a suspicious colour. This did not happen to my white friends. Would you say they had an advantage over me in the sense of being allowed to go about their business unmolested?

In what way did this diminish your rights? What negative outcome did you experience?

[OngBonga]

So basically you're saying there's an advantage to being born white in the UK?

What a piss poor response.

An educated black person in the UK will have better job prospects than I have.

Tell me how I'm advantaged by being born white in the UK.

I'm arguing the advantage comes from stable family background, which, on average, will result in better performance at school, which in turn results in better job prospects. It has fuck all to do with skin colour. It's just that a large % of those from stable families, with strong educations, happen to be white, since white people are native and have been for millenia.

Here's an example:

Small sample size, perhaps it was a racist cop, or perhaps you look shifty. I have no idea.

I've been questioned by the police before for no apparent reason. I'm white as white gets. Maybe the cops who questioned me just didn't like the look of me. It's hardly something I'm gonna lose sleep over.

Do better.

[OngBonga]

Are Pakistani people privileged in Pakistan?

[OngBonga]

the 14th amendment guarantees due process. Specifically, rights cannot be deprived without due process.

Guns are a right. Alcohol isn't.

Do you not think this is messed up? You have the right to possess a lethal weapon, but not the right to ingest liquids of your choice?

[BananaStand]

Driving home at 3am after a crushing session at Foxwoods, I decided to try and keep myself awake by watching Netflix while I drove. I looked down to dial up a show and crossed into the other lane by a fraction of a tire width. There wasn't another car within a mile of me, so no harm no foul right?

Wrong.

Bored cop decided to see what was up. I pulled over, and he immediately smelled weed cuz that's what I do on long drives. He said "are there drugs in the car". I didn't say anything, but I just slightly moved my head from one side to another, like a fraction of a millimeter. He says "Cmon...I'll ask you again....are there drugs in the car?"

I confessed to smoking weed and he asked "why did you lie?"

I said "What can I say? I took a shot"

He gets instantly riled up "Took a shot of what????!!!!!"

"whoa whoa whoa, I just meant I took a shot at saying there was no weed"

All I had in the car was a dried up half gram wrapped in a slip of paper. I showed it to him. He made me toss it into the wind. He asked me where I was coming from. Etc etc etc. Then he holds up a pen, and makes me follow it with my eyes from side to side.

That was the extent of the sobriety test. He didn't even make me get out of the car.

Then he asked me what I was smoking out of. I had a pipe. He wanted to see it. I showed it to him. It was actually packed full cuz I was gonna blaze once I got Bob's Burgers playing on my phone. He says "Is there still shit in there?" (he called it "shit", lol)

So I dumped that out too. And then he wrote me a $100 fine for "failing to signal a lane change"

I drove away thinking "FFFFFUUUUUUCCKKK YEAH WHITE PRIVILEGE!!""

[BananaStand]

Do you not think this is messed up? You have the right to possess a lethal weapon, but not the right to ingest liquids of your choice?

Guns stabilize society, alcoholism destabilizes society.

[Poopadoop]

In what way did this diminish your rights? What negative outcome did you experience?

I was subjected to unwarranted and illegal police intimidation. What do you want, my skull getting cracked?

[OngBonga]

I was gonna say you're a dick for watching TV while driving, but then again with your straight as fuck roads, maybe it's not nearly as stupid as it would be here.

[OngBonga]

Guns stabilize society, alcoholism destabilizes society.

Arguably. But still... I guess this is just my pov, but I feel like noone has the right to tell me I can't smoke weed, so I ignore the law. Same applies for alcohol. Of course I have the right to drink it, simply because noone has the right to stop me.

[OngBonga]

I was subjected to unwarranted and illegal police intimidation. What do you want, my skull getting cracked?

I've been subjected to unwarranted police questioning. I didn't consider it illegal intimidation.

I don't like to use this word, but don't be a fucking snowflake.

[BananaStand]

I was subjected to unwarranted and illegal police intimidation. What do you want, my skull getting cracked?

I'm trying to get as to why this would be something that prevents success. Let me ask the question differently.

So how is someone not subjected to the same treatment, privileged? What advantage does that afford them. What were they allowed to gain that you weren't because of this treatment

[BananaStand]

I was gonna say you're a dick for watching TV while driving, but then again with your straight as fuck roads, maybe it's not nearly as stupid as it would be here.

It was a 4-lane interstate highway and I was the only car on it.

[OngBonga]

You could lose you license for that here.

[Poopadoop]

What a piss poor response.

All you did was list a number ways whites are advantaged, and then provide an explanation for each one. The question was does the advantage exist, not why it exists.

Tell me how I'm advantaged by being born white in the UK.

You just showed several ways in which you are.

I'm arguing the advantage comes from stable family background, which, on average, will result in better performance at school, which in turn results in better job prospects. It has fuck all to do with skin colour. It's just that a large % of those from stable families, with strong educations, happen to be white, since white people are native and have been for millenia.

You can argue lots of things. It doesn't change the basic fact.

Small sample size, perhaps it was a racist cop,

No shit. Try racist copsssss. It happened on average once every six months from the time I became a teenager until I got out of that fukcing town.

I have no idea.

You're right about that. But yet you want to argue it was due to anything but skin colour.

I've been questioned by the police before for no apparent reason. I'm white as white gets. Maybe the cops who questioned me just didn't like the look of me. It's hardly something I'm gonna lose sleep over.

I'm not talking about you, maybe you do look shifty I don't know. I didn't look any more or less suspicious than my friends, it's just a strange coincidence it happened to me and not them, and it happened repeatedly.

Do better.

You're trying to argue racial profiling and racist police don't exist. You're the one who needs to do better.

[OngBonga]

"Driving without due care and attention"

[BananaStand]

You could lose you license for that here.

Lol, that would be fine. I'd just drive anyway. I was actually facing far more serious consequences that didn't materialize.

I could have been removed from the car and given a full sobriety test, possibly (but almost certainly not) resulting in an arrest for impaired driving

I could have had my car searched.

I could have been cited for drug possession.

Lying to the police and then confessing probably wouldn't play out well for me.

[Poopadoop]

Driving home at 3am after a crushing session at Foxwoods, I decided to try and keep myself awake by watching Netflix while I drove. I looked down to dial up a show and crossed into the other lane by a fraction of a tire width. There wasn't another car within a mile of me, so no harm no foul right?

Wrong.

Bored cop decided to see what was up. I pulled over, and he immediately smelled weed cuz that's what I do on long drives. He said "are there drugs in the car". I didn't say anything, but I just slightly moved my head from one side to another, like a fraction of a millimeter. He says "Cmon...I'll ask you again....are there drugs in the car?"

I confessed to smoking weed and he asked "why did you lie?"

I said "What can I say? I took a shot"

He gets instantly riled up "Took a shot of what????!!!!!"

"whoa whoa whoa, I just meant I took a shot at saying there was no weed"

All I had in the car was a dried up half gram wrapped in a slip of paper. I showed it to him. He made me toss it into the wind. He asked me where I was coming from. Etc etc etc. Then he holds up a pen, and makes me follow it with my eyes from side to side.

That was the extent of the sobriety test. He didn't even make me get out of the car.

Then he asked me what I was smoking out of. I had a pipe. He wanted to see it. I showed it to him. It was actually packed full cuz I was gonna blaze once I got Bob's Burgers playing on my phone. He says "Is there still shit in there?" (he called it "shit", lol)

So I dumped that out too. And then he wrote me a $100 fine for "failing to signal a lane change"

I drove away thinking "FFFFFUUUUUUCCKKK YEAH WHITE PRIVILEGE!!""

That's your interpretation of white privelege is it? It only counts if it means any white person can act like a complete dumbfuck to a cop and get away with it.

[OngBonga]

All you did was list a number ways whites are advantaged, and then provide an explanation for each one. The question was does the advantage exist, not why it exists.

Wronjg. I listed ways whites are perceived to be advantaged, and refuted them.

You just showed several ways in which you are.

I think you're confused. Look up "advantaged".

You can argue lots of things. It doesn't change the basic fact.

You're failing to refute my argument though. And what "basic fact" am I failing to change?

No shit. Try racist copsssss. It happened on average once every six months from the time I became a teenager until I got out of that fukcing town.

So maybe it was a shithole town full of racists cops. You took the initiative and moved elsewhere.

You're right about that. But yet you want to argue it was due to anything but skin colour.

Bollocks. I said "perhaps racist cop", so I totally acknowledge it could be due to skin colour. However, that's a racist cop, not a racist nation, or a racist system.

I'm not talking about you, maybe you do look shifty I don't know. I didn't look any more or less suspicious than my friends, it's just a strange coincidence it happened to me and not them, and it happened repeatedly.

It's not your job to decide if you look suspicious.

You're trying to argue racial profiling and racist police don't exist. You're the one who needs to do better.

You're not absorbing what I'm saying.

Yes they exist, as I acknowledged in a post previous to this one of yours.

[Poopadoop]

...

You're either ignorant or just being argumentative if you don't think racism is a problem on the police forces in the UK, US, and Canada all.

I just described a classic example of it and your response was to say 'maybe it was this or that or somehow your fault'. Fuck off.

[OngBonga]

You need to do better because so far the best you've got is "I got pulled over more than my white friends", and that is your argument for why I'm privileged thanks to being born white in the UK.

[OngBonga]

You're either ignorant or just being argumentative if you don't think racism is a problem on the police forces in the UK, US, and Canada all.

I just described a classic example of it and your response was to say 'maybe it was this or that or somehow your fault'. Fuck off.

Of course racism exists, I'm not disputing that, and haven't disputed it in any of my posts.

I'm saying that it is racist individuals, not a racist system that results in disadvantage. If you could prove a cop acted in a racist manner, he's gonna lose his job. Certainly here in the UK.

[OngBonga]

You can argue lots of things. It doesn't change the basic fact.

You didn't tell me what the "basic fact" was.

[Poopadoop]

All you've done is say things like 'they're more likely to get stopped by police because they're more likely to be criminals, because they're more likely to be poor - and that's not a disadvantage it's just a fact.'

What exactly is the root cause of their disadvantage? You seem to think it's something inherent to a specific group of people who happen to be a minority, rather than any kind of thing where society favours one group over the others.

[OngBonga]

What exactly is the root cause of their disadvantage?

I thought I was already clear on this. Poor quality education, resulting in poor job prospects, stemming from an unstable family background, perhaps as a consequence of leaving one nation to live in another, or perhaps due to an inability to integrate.

It certainly isn't because the UK is a racist nation.

[Poopadoop]

Of course racism exists, I'm not disputing that, and haven't disputed it in any of my posts.

I'm saying that it is racist individuals, not a racist system that results in disadvantage. If you could prove a cop acted in a racist manner, he's gonna lose his job. Certainly here in the UK.

Right, but it's hard to prove a cop is racist unless they're on tape overtly acting like one. You can't just say 'this cop pulled me over 'cause I'm X, it happens all the time here' and expect an investigation to be launched.

[Poopadoop]

I thought I was already clear on this. Poor quality education, stemming from an unstable family background, perhaps as a consequence of leaving one nation to live in another, or perhaps due to an inability to integrate.

It certainly isn't because the UK is a racist nation.

The UK is less racist than a lot of places but it's still racist. Just try being a coloured person walking into one of those pubs with the England flag on it.

[OngBonga]

Right, but it's hard to prove a cop is racist unless they're on tape overtly acting like one. You can't just say 'this cop pulled me over 'cause I'm X, it happens all the time here' and expect an investigation to be launched.

Right, fair enough. So... how do you know he was being racist? If you can't prove it, well you can't know. You're making an assumption, and from that assumption you are coming to the conclusion that white people are privileged.

It's a flawed line of thinking.

[Poopadoop]

I thought I was already clear on this. Poor quality education, resulting in poor job prospects, stemming from an unstable family background, perhaps as a consequence of leaving one nation to live in another, or perhaps due to an inability to integrate.

So it's because they're immigrants basically. And what about the ones who are 3rd or 4th generation and still facing a disadvantage? And why are white immigrants apparently immune to these problems?

[OngBonga]

The UK is less racist than a lot of places but it's still racist. Just try being a coloured person walking into one of those pubs with the England flag on it.

Jeez. Also try being white and walking into a mosque in Birmingham.

[OngBonga]

So it's because they're immigrants basically. And what about the ones who are 3rd or 4th generation and still facing a disadvantage? And why are white immigrants apparently immune to these problems?

Do you have figures to support the idea that 4th generation immigrant families are disadvantaged?

And whites are not immune. The Polish are subject to racism here, and integration problems.

[Poopadoop]

Right, fair enough. So... how do you know he was being racist? If you can't prove it, well you can't know. You're making an assumption, and from that assumption you are coming to the conclusion that white people are privileged.

It's a flawed line of thinking.

The cops routinely use racial profiling, it's not like it's a secret. It's essentially systematized racism.

[Poopadoop]

Jeez. Also try being white and walking into a mosque in Birmingham.

Never said only white people are racist.

But if you accept racism exists and the power is also concentrated in one group, it's hard to believe that's just a coincidence.

[OngBonga]

In fact the Polish come here and do job British people don't want to do. The average wage for a Polish man aged 30 will be less than his British counterpart. Is that disadvantage? No it fucking isn't.

[Poopadoop]

Do you have figures to support the idea that 4th generation immigrant families are disadvantaged?

And whites are not immune. The Polish are subject to racism here, and integration problems.

Are they disadvantaged in the ways you suggested though? Are they targeted by police for example?

[BananaStand]

The cops routinely use racial profiling, it's not like it's a secret. It's essentially systematized racism.

So the DEA gets a tip that cocaine is being smuggled into the country on a flight. they look at the passenger manifest and they see 150 white people, and two Columbian nationals.

Are you saying that searching their luggage first would be systematized racism??

[Poopadoop]

In fact the Polish come here and do job British people don't want to do. The average wage for a Polish man aged 30 will be less than his British counterpart. Is that disadvantage? No it fucking isn't.

last time I checked we were talking about white privelege, not anglo-saxon privelege.

[OngBonga]

Are they disadvantaged in the ways you suggested though? Are they targeted by police for example?

I don't seem to recall you answering how being pulled over by a cop results in "disadvantage".

Experiencing racism is not necessarily to be disadvantaged.

[OngBonga]

last time I checked we were talking about white privelege, not anglo-saxon privelege.

Oh ok, well it's interesting how you can say "doesn't apply to Polish", while I'm the one who seems to be missing the point about racism.

[Poopadoop]

So the DEA gets a tip that cocaine is being smuggled into the country on a flight. they look at the passenger manifest and they see 150 white people, and two Columbian nationals.

Are you saying that searching their luggage first would be systematized racism??

Reminds me of a Colombian guy I knew when i lived in the US. Every single time he came back to the US from a visit to Col. he got a finger up his ass.

[BananaStand]

Reminds me of a Colombian guy I knew when i lived in the US. Every single time he came back to the US from a visit to Col. he got a finger up his ass.

Not an answer.

[Poopadoop]

I don't seem to recall you answering how being pulled over by a cop results in "disadvantage".

Experiencing racism is not necessarily to be disadvantaged.

Of course it's a disadvantage to experience police intimidation because of your race. It's easy for you to say it isn't because it hasn't happened to you.

[Poopadoop]

Not an answer.

read between the lines.

[Poopadoop]

Oh ok, well it's interesting how you can say "doesn't apply to Polish", while I'm the one who seems to be missing the point about racism.

Huh?

You're just obfuscating things now.

The topic is white privelege. Racism against white poles or lithuanians or swedes is not relevant.

[Poopadoop]

I don't seem to recall you answering how being pulled over by a cop results in "disadvantage".

Experiencing racism is not necessarily to be disadvantaged.

One of the reasons I left was to get away from that atmosphere. So whatever opportunities I had were diminished by the fact that the place left a bad taste in my mouth. I could be offered a fabulous job there and think 'eeh, no thanks'.

[OngBonga]

Of course it's a disadvantage to experience police intimidation because of your race. It's easy for you to say it isn't because it hasn't happened to you.

How did they intimidate you?

[OngBonga]

Huh?

You're just obfuscating things now.

The topic is white privelege. Racism against white poles or lithuanians or swedes is not relevant.

You brought up how white people were supposedly immune, I simply refuted it by pointing to the Polish.

[OngBonga]

One of the reasons I left was to get away from that atmosphere. So whatever opportunities I had were diminished by the fact that the place left a bad taste in my mouth. I could be offered a fabulous job there and think 'eeh, no thanks'.

I recently left Kidderminster because it's a shithole. I could be offered a £100k a year job there and I'd say fuck off. So I'm "disadvantaged" through no fault of my own. Who do I blame? I can't blame white people since I'm white.

[Poopadoop]

How did they intimidate you?

Police there are not like police here. For one they all carry guns on holsters. That in itself is enough to intimidate. For another, they are more asshole-ish than here.

A specific example: I'm 16 years old. It's the middle of the afternoon. I'm walking down the street listening to a walkman. Officer Racist pulls up in his car behind me and turns on the siren, scaring the shit out of me. I stop. He turns off the siren and gets out of his car and walks towards me until he's close enough to be crowding my personal space. I take a step back, he takes a step forward. I stop. He asks me if I have I.D. I say 'no'. He frowns. He asks me whose walkman that is. I say mine. He frowns again. He says 'do you have a receipt on you?' like I carry around receipts for things I buy. I say 'no'. He shakes his head like I've done something wrong. he says 'how do I know it's yours then?'. I just shrug. Then he asks me why I don't carry I.D., like it's the law to carry ID or something. Then he looks at my shoes which are new and asks me where I got them, do I have a receipt, etc.. And so on for five minutes where I get interrogated. People are driving by seeing me getting questioned by a cop. It's embarrassing. Finally he says 'well I guess you're free to go.'

I'm not saying that's on a level of planting drugs on me or anything. But it's intimidation, and what's more it's completely illegal to just stop someone and harass them like that. He never tells me why he's stopped me or what the fuck his problem is. And what can I do about it? Not a fucking thing because I can't prove he did anything wrong. All he has to do is say I 'looked suspicious' and because he didn't rough me up or point his gun at me he won't be in trouble.

After that happens to you six or seven times it gets a bit old. They weren't all as obnoxious as this guy but still, it's enough.

[Poopadoop]

I recently left Kidderminster because it's a shithole. I could be offered a £100k a year job there and I'd say fuck off. So I'm "disadvantaged" through no fault of my own. Who do I blame? I can't blame white people since I'm white.

And so your point is you're not disadvantaged by colour, you just don't like the place for other reasons.

[BananaStand]

If you're not a criminal, then you have nothing to lose by standing up to the police. That doesn't mean you say "fuck you officer" But you could file a formal written complaint with the police department. Or your councilman. Or your Mayor. Or your congressman. Or your Senator. Or any of the many many many civil rights watchdog organizations.

If you don't like racism, don't enable it.

[Poopadoop]

If you're not a criminal, then you have nothing to lose by standing up to the police. That doesn't mean you say "fuck you officer" But you could file a formal written complaint with the police department. Or your councilman. Or your Mayor. Or your congressman. Or your Senator. Or any of the many many many civil rights watchdog organizations.

If you don't like racism, don't enable it.

Yeah sure I could have done all that. Lots of sixteen year old kids are fully cognizant of their civil rights and willing and able to articulate how they've been violated and follow through with a formal complaint to the relevant authority.

And assuming I was and had done all those things, I guess you missed the part where he just says i 'looked suspicious' and then it's a 16 year old kid's word against a cops.

[OngBonga]

Police there are not like police here. For one they all carry guns on holsters. That in itself is enough to intimidate. For another, they are more asshole-ish than here.

Ok, but why would a black person feel intimidated by an asshole cop with a gun, but not a white person?

A specific example:

Yeah a dick of a cop, probably racist.

After that happens to you six or seven times it gets a bit old. They weren't all as obnoxious as this guy but still, it's enough.

Do you think the same cop wouldn't have profiled a white meth head and asked him where he got his walkman from? Do you suppose that same meth head only gets harassed once or twice before the cops leave him alone?

And so your point is you're not disadvantaged by colour, you just don't like the place for other reasons.

Yeah fair enough. But I left a town I didn't like. I don't consider that "disadvantaged", I consider it "taking the initiative". Perhaps you're right and there is a race problem with the cops in that town, or perhaps there was a problem back when you lived there. Do you think it's still the same?

[BananaStand]

Yeah sure I could have done all that. Lots of sixteen year old kids are fully cognizant of their civil rights and willing and able to articulate how they've been violated and follow through with a formal complaint to the relevant authority.

your parents know what to do. Start there.

And assuming I was and had done all those things, I guess you missed the part where he just says i 'looked suspicious' and then it's a 16 year old kid's word against a cops.

So? What's you're point? Because racism won't be eradicated with the wave of a magic wand....why bother?? That's so lazy and entitled. You're willing to endure racism because the recourse you have won't give you complete justice.

Maybe the cop isn't disciplined. Maybe he doesn't stop harboring racist attitudes. maybe he doesn't stop hassling minorities. but he probably won't hassle YOU anymore without a really good reason.

[wufwugy]

Identifying people based on a group they can be attributed to then diagnosing that status as causing benefits or costs associated with that group is a bad idea.

[BananaStand]

Identifying people based on a group they can be attributed to then diagnosing that status as causing benefits or costs associated with that group is a bad idea.

Unless the identifier is geography. Poverty isn't scattered. It's concentrated geographically. Poverty drives crime. If it's your job to catch criminals....where should you go?

[Poopadoop]

Ok, but why would a black person feel intimidated by an asshole cop with a gun, but not a white person?

I suspect they would. The difference is for what reason and how often they are forced to confront an asshole cop with a gun.

Yeah a dick of a cop, probably racist.

Seems that way.

Do you think the same cop wouldn't have profiled a white meth head and asked him where he got his walkman from? Do you suppose that same meth head only gets harassed once or twice before the cops leave him alone?

If the argument is that if you're white, you have to be a meth head in order to draw the same amount of police attention as a random native american looking person, that's seems to be a good argument that there's white privelege.

Yeah fair enough. But I left a town I didn't like. I don't consider that "disadvantaged", I consider it "taking the initiative". Perhaps you're right and there is a race problem with the cops in that town, or perhaps there was a problem back when you lived there. Do you think it's still the same?

I would hope it is less now than then, but things take time to change. I do know that when I go back nowadays I'm fully prepared to not take any shit.

[Poopadoop]

your parents know what to do. Start there.

My parents did know what to do because it would have been a complete waste of time.

So? What's you're point? Because racism won't be eradicated with the wave of a magic wand....why bother?? That's so lazy and entitled. You're willing to endure racism because the recourse you have won't give you complete justice.

Maybe the cop isn't disciplined. Maybe he doesn't stop harboring racist attitudes. maybe he doesn't stop hassling minorities. but he probably won't hassle YOU anymore without a really good reason.

Easy to talk from your ivory tower I know.

[OngBonga]

I suspect they would. The difference is for what reason and how often they are forced to confront an asshole cop with a gun.

I certainly would feel intimidated by a cop with a gun. My point being that this intimidation is universal, it's not specific to race.

If the argument is that if you're white, you have to be a meth head in order to draw the same amount of police attention as a random native american looking person, that's seems to be a good argument that there's white privelege.

Not really, I was simply giving an example of someone who might attract police attention for no other reason than looking shifty. In this country, the police might randomly stop and question a chav, for no reason other than him being a chav. Or try driving around in a suped up Clio with twat hubcaps, and see how often you get pulled over.

I would hope it is less now than then, but things take time to change. I do know that when I go back nowadays I'm fully prepared to not take any shit.

Change does take time. I'd like to think that a nation such as USA will take these issues of racism seriously, and over time it will be eradicated, at least from a systematic pov. But you're still going to get pulled over if the cop thinks you look shifty, and they shouldn't be burdened to the point they feel they can't question black people through fear of being labelled racist.

[wufwugy]

Poverty drives crime.

This is not known.

[Poopadoop]

Change does take time. I'd like to think that a nation such as USA will take these issues of racism seriously, and over time it will be eradicated, at least from a systematic pov. But you're still going to get pulled over if the cop thinks you look shifty, and they shouldn't be burdened to the point they feel they can't question black people through fear of being labelled racist.

No they shouldn't. But they should be burdened to the point of 'i had a reason that would have qualified me to question them regardless of their colour'.

[OngBonga]

No they shouldn't. But they should be burdened to the point of 'i had a reason that would have qualified me to question them regardless of their colour'.

What if that cop has information that a black individual had just committed a robbery?

[BananaStand]

This is not known.

Ugh...fine. Income inequality drives crime. Better?

[OngBonga]

Ugh...fine. Income inequality drives crime. Better?

This is worse. Income inequality? There are some very rich people committing crimes.

[Poopadoop]

What if that cop has information that a black individual had just committed a robbery?

Then it's not racist assuming they have no more specific information than that. And as long as they inform any black person that's the reason they're stopping them I don't think that person would generally feel discriminated against.

It's the same to me as if all they knew was it was a person in a spiderman costume. They would be right to question anyone wearing a spiderman costume who was found nearby.

[OngBonga]

And as long as they inform any black person that's the reason they're stopping them

How would you know it's true?

[Poopadoop]

How would you know it's true?

If you're that black person you could suspect they are lying I guess. But you could also follow it up and see if they were telling the truth or not. The guy in the spiderman costume might also suspect they're lying. But then if he heard on the news later that spiderman had robbed a bank nearby that day, he'd have to re-assess that idea.

My point wasn't so much how it can be perceived but whether it is acting in good faith or being racist. And i think it's the former.

[OngBonga]

Thing is, I've been pulled over before while walking home down what was practically a country road, and the cop told me there was a nearby robbery, so I let him check my bag and pockets. But I dind't believe him. I suspected he was just giving an excuse for his suspicion. But I can't prove it, neither do I care to. I had nothing to worry about so I showed him my bag, and made casual conversation with him while he had a look. He's just doing his job, and he thought I looked shifty (for whatever reason), so he stopped me. No problem.

[Poopadoop]

Thing is, I've been pulled over before while walking home down what was practically a country road, and the cop told me there was a nearby robbery, so I let him check my bag and pockets. But I dind't believe him. I suspected he was just giving an excuse for his suspicion. But I can't prove it, neither do I care to. I had nothing to worry about so I showed him my bag, and made casual conversation with him while he had a look. He's just doing his job, and he thought I looked shifty (for whatever reason), so he stopped me. No problem.

If it happened every other time you walked down a country road, I'm guessing it would be a problem though right? If it happens once in a blue moon, it's much easier to shrug and say 'whatever'.

[wufwugy]

Ugh...fine. Income inequality drives crime. Better?

Nobody knows anywhere close to what the real degrees of income inequality are nor what causes it nor what it means. Things like poverty are ASSOCIATED with crime at best, but not known to cause crime.

[OngBonga]

If it happened every other time you walked down a country road, I'm guessing it would be a problem though right?

Sure, and I might even start to ask myself what the cops have against me. But what I wouldn't do is consider myself disadvantaged.

[Poopadoop]

Sure, and I might even start to ask myself what the cops have against me. But what I wouldn't do is consider myself disadvantaged.

Why not? It certainly seems like a disadvantage to be routinely stopped and searched like that. Wouldn't you rather be allowed to go about your business without being interfered with?

[OngBonga]

Wouldn't you rather be allowed to go about your business without being interfered with?

Of course. But if they're bothering me to the point of annoyance, I'd make a formal complaint. I'd also ask myself if there's anything I should be doing to reduce the chances of being harassed by the police, I mean as an innocent man I'd prefer them to be doing something more productive. Why do they think I'm acting suspiciously? Is it reasonable for them to think so? If so, what can I do to change my behaviour?

If, despite doing everything one can reasonably be expected to do to mitigate, one is still being hassled by them, then complain about it formally. If it's systematic, then there will be lots of compalints, and they will be forced to act.

What did you do about it when you were hassled by them? Nothing? You can't blame them for your naivity.

[Poopadoop]

What did you do about it when you were hassled by them? Nothing? You can't blame them for your naivity.

What do you think I should have done and what do you think the outcome would have been?

Let's say I lodged a formal complaint. On what grounds? That I'm mixed-race and got questioned by a police officer? And that it had happened before with different cops too? What exactly am I alleging - that the cops are racist? None of them called me any names and didn't rough me up or arrest me.

So, a kid goes to the police internal affairs office and says 'this cop stopped me on the street and asked me questions, and this seems to happen a lot, and I think it's cause they're racist' and they say 'omg we'll get right on it in the next 100 years.'

You're the one being naive here. I had a better grasp on reality as a teenager than you do now.