**** Elections thread *****

[wufwugy]

I feel Americans have a very crooked view of the middle east. Maybe a little immigration from those places would help that.

Their backwards fundamentalist views on things aren't really all that different.

Cultural enrichment

Religion of Peace


Islamic and Christian fundamentalism are very, very different. Antipodal in difference.

[BananaStand]

Damn, all this trouble because Abraham fucked the help....

Here's a question for you... do you believe that the killing of innocent Muslims in their home nation by means of air strikes is justifiable to protect American lives?

What percentage of Americans do you think would answer "yes"?

Why should they give more of a shit about civillian lives than we do?

It's a trick question. If killing them means American lives are saved, how can the be "innocent"?

Dissecting your question more reveals the fallacy of your logic. You're obviously talking about collateral damage caused by attacks on justifiable targets. When an Islamic militant attacks civilians, the target is not justifiable.

Their tactic has a name. It's called Terrorism, and Americans don't do that. So you can't compare the two.

I'm not saying that the American military hasn't committed atrocities in the fog of war. But I'm sure that more often than not, we've made concerted efforts to avoid or minimize collateral damage. Unfortunately, collateral damage is part of warfare, it happens. That's not an excuse to go beserk and drive a truck over a sidewalk of pedestrians thousands of miles from the battlefield.

There's a reason that American soldiers don't bring their wives and kids to war. Terrorists haven't figured that out yet. I don't see how that's America's problem.

[Savy]

I have a chess rating of nearly 2000 (sadly never hit that figure).

Therefore, I have earned the right to say "checkmate" when I want to close an argument.

All you phoneys should say something else.

And I beat you? That must make me a FM or something.

I did get in the 96th percentile on the logic portion of the GRE though.

Yet you couldn't solve the puzzle I did. I must be like 99th percentile.

[wufwugy]

yea but r u smrtr than paul krugman

[wufwugy]

btw my avatar would be the best movie ever made. rambo and james bond need to team up to rid the world of some bullshit.

[Savy]

yea but r u smrtr than paul krugman

I'm not that smart and I have practically zero knowledge. So probs not.

btw my avatar would be the best movie ever made. rambo and james bond need to team up to rid the world of some bullshit.

I wouldn't watch it.

[wufwugy]

I wouldn't watch it.

Not even if it's filmed in Londonistan?

[Savy]

Not even if it's filmed in Londonistan?

Maybe if it was freeing Birmingham of Sharia law.

[wufwugy]

9.7 on imdb

[OngBonga]

And I beat you? That must make me a FM or something.

I'd like to big you up, but I'm wildly inconsistent when it comes to blitz, so I can't give you too much credit for beating me, I'm sorry.

If you can beat me when I can take an entire day to make a single move, then I'll pat you on the back.

[Savy]

I'd like to big you up, but I'm wildly inconsistent when it comes to blitz, so I can't give you too much credit for beating me, I'm sorry.

If you can beat me when I can take an entire day to make a single move, then I'll pat you on the back.

I'm shit at chess, the only thing I am good at is tactics/puzzles. I struggle to keep a 1100 rating playing 3/2 games on chess.com. Longer games online bore me and the only time I play IRL is with one mate and I'm usually too drunk to play seriously.

[OngBonga]

I haven't played IRL for a while, none of my friends will play me because I'll obviously win and then sit there smirking like a smug twat.

I can't remember our games in detail, but I'm sure you played a solid game when you won, that I didn't throw it away with a dumb move, so you're obviously not shit. I do sometimes lose to shit people, but it's usually the result of time pressure.

[Savy]

I haven't played IRL for a while, none of my friends will play me because I'll obviously win and then sit there smirking like a smug twat.

I can't remember our games in detail, but I'm sure you played a solid game when you won, that I didn't throw it away with a dumb move, so you're obviously not shit. I do sometimes lose to shit people, but it's usually the result of time pressure.

https://en.lichess.org/fLhCGJYp/white#65

[OngBonga]

Oh that's why you beat me, because I didn't play Sicilian. I guess I was being kind.

[OngBonga]

19... Rxf2 is why I lost, I have an easy win if I trade rooks. That's where I lose a lot of blitz games... not taking the simple approach and getting "creative". In a long-game, I wouldn't make that play because I'd have analysed it and realised it's shit.

[Savy]

Should have an easy win from 1... against me mate.

[Jack Sawyer]

Interesting take, and exactly my thoughts. This is the precise impression that the whole situation with Trump gives; that you can't take him or his word seriously. And that is very dangerous IMO

If you behave too much like a child in the eyes of those you have to deal with, they will have to assume you are a child. Remember, literally the eyes of the world are affixed on this at the moment. The POTUS is always a looked upon figure, the one P that everyone around the world knows his (or her) name. Non-Europeans, name 10 other currently in office presidents excluding Canada's and Mexico's, for instance.

So now when we have a child in the room, and that damn kid happens to posses nukes, all bets are off. Maybe this is exactly what the people wanted?

Again, don't shoot the messenger. Opinion piece on the other favorite fake news outlet (MSNBC are partisan bad, and are basically becoming coporate-left-wing FOX, not kidding there, but anyway here it is)




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[OngBonga]

Should have an easy win from 1... against me mate.

It's nice that you feel as smug for beating me as I do for beating spoon.

[Savy]

It's nice that you feel as smug for beating me as I do for beating spoon.

It's no big deal really.

[wufwugy]

I wouldn't elect Lawrence O'Donnell to dog catcher.

That was a masterpiece in bullshit though. At least he masters that.

[wufwugy]

I notice a trend

[OngBonga]

It's no big deal really.

I don't believe you. Beating spoon was a big deal, just because I didn't really like him. So if it's no big deal that you beat me, I guess that means you like me.

[Poopadoop]

Interesting take, and exactly my thoughts. This is the precise impression that the whole situation with Trump gives; that you can't take him or his word seriously. And that is very dangerous IMO

If you behave too much like a child in the eyes of those you have to deal with, they will have to assume you are a child. Remember, literally the eyes of the world are affixed on this at the moment. The POTUS is always a looked upon figure, the one P that everyone around the world knows his (or her) name. Non-Europeans, name 10 other currently in office presidents excluding Canada's and Mexico's, for instance.

So now when we have a child in the room, and that damn kid happens to posses nukes, all bets are off. Maybe this is exactly what the people wanted?

Again, don't shoot the messenger. Opinion piece on the other favorite fake news outlet (MSNBC are partisan bad, and are basically becoming coporate-left-wing FOX, not kidding there, but anyway here it is)




<object width="425" height="355">

Obviously he missed the part where Trump checkmates Nieto by giving him an excuse to cancel the trip.

[Poopadoop]

https://en.lichess.org/fLhCGJYp/white#65

Lol every other move is a blunder.

[Savy]

Lol every other move is a blunder.

Doesn't matter how many mistakes you make as long as you win.

[wufwugy]

Obviously he missed the part where Trump checkmates Nieto by giving him an excuse to cancel the trip.

Serious question: how dumb do you think Trump is?

[Poopadoop]

Doesn't matter how many mistakes you make as long as the other guy makes more.

fyp

[Savy]

fyp

You made my post significantly worse. This is because you have a losers mindset.

Serious question: how dumb do you think Trump is?

I'd say ~110-115 IQ

[Poopadoop]

Serious question: how dumb do you think Trump is?

Not quite sure. Dumb enough to promise Mexico will pay for the Wall, assuming it ever gets built? Yes. Possibly dumb enough to think he can get them to pay for it? Apparently, yes.

[wufwugy]

You made my post significantly worse. This is because you have a losers mindset.



I'd say ~110-115 IQ

Is this the IQ test that Paul "Never Go Full Paul Krugman" Krugman passes?

[wufwugy]

Not quite sure. Dumb enough to promise Mexico will pay for the Wall, assuming it ever gets built? Yes. Possibly dumb enough to think he can get them to pay for it? Apparently, yes.

Okay so a total fucking retard. On the order of lampshade brilliance. Things are starting to make sense now.

[Savy]

Is this the IQ test that Paul "Never Go Full Paul Krugman" Krugman passes?

You don't pass or fail IQ tests. I also have no idea who this Krugman is you keep bringing up.

[wufwugy]

Not quite sure. Dumb enough to promise Mexico will pay for the Wall, assuming it ever gets built? Yes. Possibly dumb enough to think he can get them to pay for it? Apparently, yes.

Does this mean that after the wall is built and after Mexico pays for it, you'll have newfound respect for Trump?

[Savy]

If the US allows Mexicans to build the wall and pays them and then taxes them an extra wall tax is this considered Mexico paying for the wall?

[Poopadoop]

I'd say ~110-115 IQ

It's not about IQ so much as having an understanding of things.

Krugman is dumb because, despite having a Nobel prize in economics, he doesn't understand or want to understand that his models don't work. Basically, neither he nor any other economist can predict anything, which makes their models useless.

Trump is dumb because he thinks he can treat the presidency like reality TV; he's too concerned with appearances and not enough with substance. He wastes times having twitter fights with people who don't matter about things that don't matter. He lies constantly. He can't help but let his ego run him in everything. That's pretty dumb.

[wufwugy]

You don't pass or fail IQ tests.

lol yeah totally true.

I also have no idea who this Krugman is you keep bringing up.

lucky

[Poopadoop]

Does this mean that after the wall is built and after Mexico pays for it, you'll have newfound respect for Trump?

Still waiting to see how that's going to come about:

Plan A. Ask Nieto. Oh shit he said no.

Plan B. 20% tariff. Oh wait, that's making American consumers pay for it.

Plan C?

[wufwugy]

It's not about IQ so much as having an understanding of things.

Krugman is dumb because, despite having a Nobel prize in economics, he doesn't understand or want to understand that his models don't work. Basically, neither he nor any other economist can predict anything, which makes their models useless.

Trump is dumb because he thinks he can treat the presidency like reality TV; he's too concerned with appearances and not enough with substance. He wastes times having twitter fights with people who don't matter about things that don't matter. He lies constantly. He can't help but let his ego run him in everything. That's pretty dumb.

The irony is that he has done a tremendous amount substantively, in part because low-order logic thinkers eagle eye focus on his twitter spats.

[Poopadoop]

If the US allows Mexicans to build the wall and pays them and then taxes them an extra wall tax is this considered Mexico paying for the wall?

The irony is the only way to build the wall cheaply will be to use illegal immigrant labor.

[wufwugy]

If the US allows Mexicans to build the wall and pays them and then taxes them an extra wall tax is this considered Mexico paying for the wall?

All sorts of things count. This is one of the funnier things that Trump antagonists harp on, because it's actually very very very very easy for Mexico to pay for the wall. A mere renegotiation of NAFTA that doesn't royally fuck the US would more than count. Granted, I think it will be much more visible than that, but I can't say how.

[Poopadoop]

The irony is that he has done a tremendous amount substantively, in part because low-order logic thinkers eagle eye focus on his twitter spats.

He's tremendous, no-one accomplishes more than him.

[wufwugy]

The irony is the only way to build the wall cheaply will be to use illegal immigrant labor.

Or not. Where do you get these wrong ideas?

[wufwugy]

He's tremendous, no-one accomplishes more than him.

Willful blindfold.

[Savy]

All sorts of things count. This is one of the funnier things that Trump antagonists harp on, because it's actually very very very very easy for Mexico to pay for the wall. A mere renegotiation of NAFTA that doesn't royally fuck the US would more than count. Granted, I think it will be much more visible than that, but I can't say how.

The only thing that counts is if the president of mexico dresses up as an incredibly racist Mexican caricature and hands over a huge blank check to trump in the Oval Office.

[Poopadoop]

All sorts of things count. This is one of the funnier things that Trump antagonists harp on, because it's actually very very very very easy for Mexico to pay for the wall. A mere renegotiation of NAFTA that doesn't royally fuck the US would more than count. Granted, I think it will be much more visible than that, but I can't say how.

NAFTA doesn't favor Mexico over the US; it's a free trade agreement. It basically encourages trade by removing barriers to trade like tariffs, which is a good thing for all parties. It's not like it's some shady deal that Mexico and Canada made just for the sake of screwing the US, as much as Trump would like you to believe it.

[wufwugy]

The only thing that counts is if the president of mexico dresses up as an incredibly racist Mexican caricature and hands over a huge blank check to trump in the Oval Office.

lol

i like it

[Poopadoop]

The only thing that counts is if the president of mexico dresses up as an incredibly racist Mexican caricature and hands over a huge blank check to trump in the Oval Office.

...on his knees, and with a mariachi band playing.

[wufwugy]

NAFTA doesn't favor Mexico over the US; it's a free trade agreement.

The latter doesn't substantiate the former.

[Poopadoop]

in part because low-order logic thinkers eagle eye focus on his twitter spats.

When the POTUS acts like a child having a tantrum, it's newsworthy. If you think the image he projects to the world is irrelevant, then well I guess you have to in order to support him.

[Poopadoop]

The latter doesn't substantiate the former.

How would you change the agreement to favor the US more?

[wufwugy]

When the POTUS acts like a child having a tantrum, it's newsworthy. If you think the image he projects to the world is irrelevant, then well I guess you have to in order to support him.

It would be spectacular if world leaders made the same mistake that his twitter-watching outrage-princesses do.

[Poopadoop]

It would be spectacular if world leaders made the same mistake that his twitter-watching outrage-princesses do.

It's not outrage, it's ridicule. He acts like an idiot. Pretty sure the world leaders agree. The former Mexican president just told him to 'grow up'.

[wufwugy]

How would you change the agreement to favor the US more?

There are all sorts of things that can be done. The simple removal of tariffs benefits Mexico more than US for a variety of reasons, but that's only a small part of what goes into Mexico/US relations. I'm not as studied on this aspect of economics as others, so I can't give a strong rundown of the details.

[wufwugy]

It's not outrage, it's ridicule. He acts like an idiot. Pretty sure the world leaders agree. The former Mexican president just told him to 'grow up'.

Good. They make the mistake.

[Poopadoop]

The simple removal of tariffs benefits Mexico more than US for a variety of reasons

It benefits both. Even if it benefits Mexico more than the US, it still benefits the US overall. Applying tariffs may hurt Mexico but it will also hurt Americans. And if Mexico applies tariffs in retaliation it will hurt both countries more. And since tariffs are the crucial issue in any free trade agreement, it's hard to see how renegotiating NAFTA is going to benefit the US in any significant way.

Here's what I think will happen: Trump will make a big song and dance about renegotiating NAFTA, because he either doesn't understand how foreign trade works and thinks he can screw other countries like he screwed over building contractors, or because he's dug himself a hole by talking about it so much that he can't back down now. Him, Trudeau, and Nieto will meet, there'll be some minor, insignificant adjustments here and there, and Trump will claim a 'huge, tremendous victory' for the US and that this will pay for the Wall (assuming it goes ahead) 'several times over'. The media will crunch the numbers and say 'wtf', and Trump will reply with some hateful tweets about 'fake news'. The joint ministers of propaganda Kellyanne Conway and Sean Spicer will come out with some alternative facts about how it's a great deal and the Trump supporters will lap it up. Everyone else will be unimpressed.

[Poopadoop]

https://en.lichess.org/fLhCGJYp/white#65

Just realised Ong's nick in this game is captaintugwash. Looool.

[wufwugy]

It benefits both.

Not necessarily. The idea has been orthodox for a while. Economists have begun questioning it recently because the results are not what they're supposed to be.

[OngBonga]

Just realised Ong's nick in this game is captaintugwash. Looool.

I've used that as my dj name.

[BananaStand]

doesn't understand how foreign trade works

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

If you're so smart, where are your billions?

In regards to Twitter, how much time do people think he actually spends tweeting on an average day? One tweet can take up an entire day's news cycle it seems, when it reality, it probably ate up about 2.8 seconds of Trump's day. They make it sound like he's pounding on a keyboard all night throwing a cyber-tantrum.

The fact is, he wouldn't use Twitter so much if the media gave him any shred of a chance. If they respected the rule of law, and the results of the election at all, Trump wouldn't have to do this so much. Instead, there is an overt movement by left wing politicians and the left win media to completely de-legitimize Trump. Every news and political organization out there is dedicated to non-stop attacks.

Trump NEEDS a rapid-deployment defense mechanism, and Twitter provides that.

GW let the media and the left wing press run absolutely wild. That surely hurt his legacy.

[Savy]

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

Survivor bias.

[wufwugy]

On the idea of trade benefiting all parties, it is likely true only in particular circumstances, like when one region has a resource or skill that another does not. Cheap labor is very likely not one of those.

Mexican immigrant labor really just appears to be displacing American labor that was once done by youths and the low skilled. Foreign factory labor appears to also not be creating a benefit for America. Things like clothing are bought more often, but they are of lower quality, there does not appear to a change in utility experienced by consumers, and also there does not appear to be a change in proportion of income spent on clothing. There are also harder to assess costs that could actually be increasing costs for American consumers than otherwise. This includes things like shit Mexican-made pipe being preferred over quality American-made, yet the shit pipe goes bad sooner and ultimately costs more over proportionate lifetimes.

This doesn't begin to get into the other indirect costs, like having a society of people who FEEL like they are getting screwed or like having Detroit-type zones.


Something one of my economics professors told me (who is extremely lefty) is that lots of economists are beginning to think that it is possible that the export model of burgeoning economics is harming their own development via things like not developing other sectors sufficiently. It may be that it is better for countries to trade only specific types and quantities of things instead of trading anything/everything.

[Poopadoop]

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

I guess you missed the part I said about foreign trade being a different type of business than building hotels. Foreign trade is not about self-promotion and stiffing contractors and fake universities. These aren't gullible fools you're dealing with, and they're not going to be bullied into doing things against their country's interests.

If you're so smart, where are your billions?

Lol ad hominen.

In regards to Twitter, how much time do people think he actually spends tweeting on an average day? One tweet can take up an entire day's news cycle it seems, when it reality, it probably ate up about 2.8 seconds of Trump's day. They make it sound like he's pounding on a keyboard all night throwing a cyber-tantrum.

It's more than the time it takes him to type the words with his tiny fingers. It's the fact that he's sitting around watching everything that's being said about him. He's watching all the news shows, all the SNL skits. Get a fucking perspective on what matters and stop crying over getting a rough ride in the media. Every president gets criticized by the media.

And he doesn't just tweet to cry over shit. The other day Fox News said the feds should go in and clean up Chicago. Half an hour later he tweets about sending in the feds. Is that really the kind of guy you want running things?

The fact is, he wouldn't use Twitter so much if the media gave him any shred of a chance. If they respected the rule of law, and the results of the election at all, Trump wouldn't have to do this so much. Instead, there is an overt movement by left wing politicians and the left win media to completely de-legitimize Trump. Every news and political organization out there is dedicated to non-stop attacks.

You mean like how he tried to de-legitimize Obama with all that birther shit? Awww, I feel so bad for him.

The reason the media is hard on Trump is T R U M P. There's no-one else to blame; it's really that simple. If he started acting like a decent, grown-up person he would stop getting all the bad press.

[oskar]

Trump does a very good job debasing himself. I was kind of on the fence whether he was actually stupid or just playing to the masses, but no, he's actually that stupid. First press conference: straight up lying about facts and then not taking any questions. First negotiation with a foreign country: tell the other side over twitter to either agree with him beforehand or not even bother, and the other side rightfully saying, well let's not bother then. Complete and utter failure. The most grievous failure being to openly and transparently lie to the press and public, leaving everyone to think: if he's going to openly lie about something as petty and stupid as crowd sizes, what will he not lie about, especially in cases where we won't have the information he does.

The longer this is going on the more confident I'm getting in my prediction of impeachment or assassination by the end of the year.

[oskar]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7551521.html

This just in.
I thought he was just retarded, but it turns out he's dangerously retarded.

[bigred]

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

If you're so smart, where are your billions?

He inherited a small fortune from his father and his father's already developed real estate and business network. The guy was given a platform to pay other people to succeed for him and he still went bankrupt multiple times.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

[BananaStand]

I guess you missed the part I said about foreign trade being a different type of business than building hotels. Foreign trade is not about self-promotion and stiffing contractors and fake universities

Seriously? How can you not look at the man's business success, worldwide, and at least have a little respect. Lots of companies build hotels. None of them have anyone as wealthy and successful as Donald Trump working there. Just admit, the guy is fucking great at business.

I'm not saying he's an angel, but there are definitely two sides to the story on stiffing contractors and T-University. Besides, do you know any great cornerbacks who have never been flagged for pass interference? Ever heard a basketball player say "if you're not foulin' you're not tryin'"? Did you know, 'rubbin is racin'?

Trump is far from an arch-criminal.

These aren't gullible fools you're dealing with, and they're not going to be bullied into doing things against their country's interests..

Funny, I feel like that's exactly what the rest of the world did to Obama.

Lol ad hominen..

But apt. The point is, it's not easy to get from wherever he started to where he is. Whether he started with a million, ten milllion or half a billion, he's still a tremendous success, even without getting elected president of the United States.

It's more than the time it takes him to type the words with his tiny fingers. It's the fact that he's sitting around watching everything that's being said about him. He's watching all the news shows, all the SNL skits.

I'm sure every president, going all the way back Washington, has paid attention to media coverage. So what? Why does that bother you? So what if he spends twenty seconds out of his weekend to challenge a report on crowd size? Why is that even news?

It's news because a hostile media decided that it's news. They decided that this was concrete evidence delusion and an inability to comprehend facts. He's an old man with an ego who doesn't like being insulted. And when he can take three seconds to respond to an attack, he does it. This isn't news. Everyone has known this about Trump for two years now, and HE STILL WON.

Get a fucking perspective on what matters and stop crying over getting a rough ride in the media.

The media coverage of the POTUS definitely matters. It affects his perception to voters, it affects the party's perception to voters, it affects the perception to other countries. It definitely matters. It definitely hurt George W's ability to lead, and it definitely helped cover many of Obama's failings.

You can't deny that the media coverage of politics is a completely different animal after this election. The game has changed. And it's obvious the President needs a defense mechanism to keep salacious and spun-up stories from being propagated as facts.

And he doesn't just tweet to cry over shit. The other day Fox News said the feds should go in and clean up Chicago. Half an hour later he tweets about sending in the feds. Is that really the kind of guy you want running things?

I don't get what you mean?

First of all, you must not watch much Fox News. They've been yelling at Emmanuel to call in the National Guard for a long time now. That narrative has been out there. It's an option that's always been on the table. Just because Trump seized on it as a potential solution doesn't mean he's a media puppet. It means he sees a problem, is genuinely concerned, and promises action.

In other words, he's doing the job of the president of the united states. Sheesh.

That being said, it is obvious that Bill O'Reilly has Trump's ear on some things. But to tell you the truth, I think that's great.

You mean like how he tried to de-legitimize Obama with all that birther shit? Awww, I feel so bad for him.

First of all, the "you started it" game, is for fifth graders. Secondly, if Obama wants to be resentful, he can be. How is that NBC and CNN are the 'enforcers' here? Third, Trump started the birther stuff as one man, a private citizen. That's WAY different than a coordinated agenda by a supposedly ethical and impartial media. And fourth, when he was proven wrong, he backed off, and admitted publicly that he was wrong. That doesn't sound like the delusional tantrum-thrower the media is trying to create now.

The reason the media is hard on Trump is T R U M P. There's no-one else to blame; it's really that simple. If he started acting like a decent, grown-up person he would stop getting all the bad press.

Zoom out a little more. The only way Trump could get elected was to do and say things exactly as he did throughout the campaign. He manipulated the media coverage during the primary by purposefully saying crazy stuff, to keep the attention on him. Rather than admit that they were being played, the media has chosen to strike back in viciously personal ways.

I mean, during the campaign Trump said "I want to ban all Muslim immigration". A student in an 8th grade civics class could give you 20 different reasons why that would be unconstitutional/illegal. Do you really think Trump didn't know this? Do you really think that he believes such an order could become law? Do you really believe that as successful as he's been, that he's THAT stupid???

That's how the media played it. "this guy doesn't even know the first amendment, how can he be president???"

It's been proven now that those statements were merely the openings for negotiations. That's obvious in light of the fact that Trump's actual order was to shut down immigration from just 6 countries, for a mere 30 days. Given how that played out, you'd think that the media would be open to the wall being paid through a renegotiation of NAFTA, rather than Nieto showing up in Juarez in a sombrero holding a giant novelty check.

That doesn't seem to be the case. You almost never hear the news media mention the 30-day restriction. You just hear "trump slams the door on muslims". The other day I saw a CAIR spokesperson on TV being asked about this order. He said "Well this is obviously just the first of many anti-muslim acts to come from this administration" or something like that. In other words, he's protesting his own hypothesis. That's the sin the media is committing. They're taking the 'extreme what-if', and making it today's news.

[BananaStand]

Trump does a very good job debasing himself. I was kind of on the fence whether he was actually stupid or just playing to the masses, but no, he's actually that stupid.

OMG. Yeah, totally stupid people make billions running gigantic corporations, and then go home to one of their many mansions and supermodel wife. Only an idiot could pull that off.

First press conference: straight up lying about facts and then not taking any questions. .

It's not a lie if he believes it. He's a stubborn old man with an ego. He stood in front of that crowd, saw it with his own eyes, and he has his opinion in regards to his size. Trying to start an argument with him about it is called trolling. Trump is not a perfect human being, he has flaws. Stubborness and ego are his, and everyone knew this all along. He still won the election. Nobody gives a fuck if Trump believes his crowd was bigger than it was. So what? Let the old man have a nice memory of an event that's only been experienced by a mere 45 men in the history.

Instead now we're consumed with this narrative that he "lied". It's not a lie if he believes it. If he believes it, it doesn't mean he's stupid. It means he's a human being.

First negotiation with a foreign country: tell the other side over twitter to either agree with him beforehand or not even bother, and the other side rightfully saying, well let's not bother then. Complete and utter failure.

Failure?? The guy called back the next fucking day

[oskar]

How funny is it that a Trump supporters idea of debate is to just tell you to agree with him while completely ignoring the thing he's replying to.

I find it alarming that whenever Trump says something that is clearly against the constitution like wanting to revoke citizenship for flag burning you guys come out of the ground and defend him by saying. He's not THAT stupid, he'll never actually do it. Well what if he actually does do it. The guys idea of diplomacy is calling foreign leaders out on twitter, he wants to "Defeat Isis in 30 days" He's a moron narcissist, and even you will eventually be surprised at how dangerous he can be.

[OngBonga]

He's still better than the alternative.

[BananaStand]

How funny is it that a Trump supporters idea of debate is to just tell you to agree with him while completely ignoring the thing he's replying to.

I find it alarming that whenever Trump says something that is clearly against the constitution like wanting to revoke citizenship for flag burning you guys come out of the ground and defend him by saying. He's not THAT stupid, he'll never actually do it. Well what if he actually does do it. The guys idea of diplomacy is calling foreign leaders out on twitter, he wants to "Defeat Isis in 30 days" He's a moron narcissist, and even you will eventually be surprised at how dangerous he can be.

I mean, I wasn't there, but I'm sure once upon a time, Mr Trump telephoned Merv Griffin and said "Hey Merv, Give me the Taj Majal". And I'm sure Merv said "go fuck yourself".

Would you say that was a failed negotiation? Did Trump get the Taj Majal or not?

I think that "negotiation" as a political tactic scares people on the left. I think one of the main reasons that so many of Obama's "accomplishments" are written in sand, is because he believed that the nation should be governed totally by a majority ideology. He had his ideology, he won the election, he expected everyone to fall in line.

When he said "if you like your plan, you can keep it", I don't think he was lying or being purposefully misleading. I think he actually believed that the private sector of insurance companies would embrace his ideology, and cooperate to implement it. He believed that businesses also had a responsibility to fulfill the will of the people, even if it defies profit motives, and he somehow expected them to participate.

Also, there is a difference between believing that flag burning should cancel citizenship, and actually acting to make it law. Lots of people are pro-life, even though outlawing abortion is unconstitutional.

[OngBonga]

Anyone who thinks that flag buring should result in citizenship being revoked is a hysterical patriotic idiot.

[BananaStand]

How funny is it that a Trump supporters idea of debate is to just tell you to agree with him while completely ignoring the thing he's replying to.

To be clear, I don't consider myself a "trump supporter". I'm a fair minded person interested in the truth. I'm registered independent. I live in a state whose primary came early enough for there to still be 17 names on the ballot. I voted for someone else. In the general, well, Republicans have just proven throughout my lifetime to be overwhelmingly better at running the economy and handling foreign policy. And frankly, not much else matters to me. I don't have a womb, I have no need for a gun, and everyone in my neighborhood is white. That's how I voted for Trump.

That doesn't mean I'm giving him a free pass and am willing to defend every single thing he does. Yes I think he's being somewhat petty by getting fired up over the crowd size thing. But I knew he was like that when I voted for him, so I'm not about to complain about it. On the other hand, I will say that I think the wall is an epic bad idea.

The only way to stop illegal immigration is to destroy the underground economy that supports it. These people shouldn't be able to find jobs, get licenses, or have open access to healthcare and education in this country. But they do. So if I'm a poor person it Mexico, and getting to America means I can feed my family. Well Mr. Trump, you can't build a wall big enough.

If there was no incentive to come here, you wouldn't need a wall. You'd only need to keep terrorists and bad guys out. And you can do that much cheaper with drones and land mines. Easy game.

It seems to me that there is a feeling among the working middle class that illegal immigration has affected the job market negatively by reducing the number of jobs and helping to keep wages stagnant. They're pissed about it, and the wall is basically symbolic of their message to not take it anymore. Frankly, I can think of better ways for the gov't to spend 15 billion dollars.

At the same time, I totally do believe that somehow, someway, trade with Mexico will be changed such that 15 billion extra dollars flows north. So in the end, to me, it's a wash.

Is a wall something I would spend time on if I was president? Probably not. But I'm not president.

Well what if he actually does do it.

Do what?

What if he tried to pass a law that's unconstitutional? It wouldn't pass one of the other two branches of government, and the law would die. We have a robust system of government here that prevents the "dangerous" ideas of one man to become a totalitarian edict.

[Poopadoop]

So much drivel in one post, I don't even know where to start.

Seriously? How can you not look at the man's business success, worldwide, and at least have a little respect. Lots of companies build hotels. None of them have anyone as wealthy and successful as Donald Trump working there. Just admit, the guy is fucking great at business.

You know what I think when I see a real estate billionaire? 50% good businessman and 50% con man. And no I don't respect that. And even if I thought he was 100% great businessman, it doesn't change any of the other impressions I have of him. Not everything in life is measured in how much money you have.

I'm not saying he's an angel, but there are definitely two sides to the story on stiffing contractors and T-University. Besides, do you know any great cornerbacks who have never been flagged for pass interference? Ever heard a basketball player say "if you're not foulin' you're not tryin'"? Did you know, 'rubbin is racin'?

So someone who scams people out of their life savings is no different than someone who commits pass interference. Gtfo.

Trump is far from an arch-criminal.

That's your defense of him? He's not an arch-criminal?

Funny, I feel like that's exactly what the rest of the world did to Obama.

Maybe you feel that because you've heard Trump say it about a billion times. If that's your barometer on the truth, then I can't help you.

The point is, it's not easy to get from wherever he started to where he is. Whether he started with a million, ten milllion or half a billion, he's still a tremendous success, even without getting elected president of the United States.

Did I say he was not a great success? Did I say he's not a billionaire? No, I said he's an idiot.

I'm sure every president, going all the way back Washington, has paid attention to media coverage. So what? Why does that bother you? So what if he spends twenty seconds out of his weekend to challenge a report on crowd size? Why is that even news?

Sure they have. But no president until now has gone full retard on slamming the press. And it's not 20 seconds a weekend, it's almost daily. And when he's not doing it he's got his ministers of propaganda doing it. It clearly eats him up inside whenever he gets criticized. He obviously can't handle it like a mature adult. That's not a good trait for a leader to have, unless he's a dictator maybe.

He's an old man with an ego who doesn't like being insulted. And when he can take three seconds to respond to an attack, he does it.

You seem to think that being thin-skinned is a reason to respect him. I don't.

[Poopadoop]

I mean, I wasn't there, but I'm sure once upon a time, Mr Trump telephoned Merv Griffin and said "Hey Merv, Give me the Taj Majal". And I'm sure Merv said "go fuck yourself".

Would you say that was a failed negotiation?

No, I'd say it was Trump being an idiot again lol.

[Jack Sawyer]

But apt. The point is, it's not easy to get from wherever he started to where he is. Whether he started with a million, ten milllion or half a billion, he's still a tremendous success, even without getting elected president of the United States.

This point is incorrect bordering fandom and delusion. If you start closer to the finish line, you will be running records compared to those who started at the actual starting line.

If somebody gave (GAVE) you a business network and 1 million to run wild, you would have to really suck in order to not make anything out of that.