ITT: Fat Shaming (Formerly Tilt Derailment)

[rong]

Are wraps (I mean the wrap itself) just as bad as bread?

This was my next question.

[Savy]

Well, it has, kinda, hence me asking this question and using the gf's exercise bike each night while I watch breaking bad (I'm recapping on the whole series in preparation of the new episodes).

The trick is make small lifestyle changes until it just becomes routine. Fwiw you can eat all the fruit and veg you like but if you eat loads of shit aswell you're going to get fat. Adding salad to your shitty meal doesn't make it healthy however much people would think it does.

Obviously there is like perfect diet and exercise on one end and towards the other end is what you currently do. The further towards the perfect diet and exercise you move the less likely it is you're going to stick to it.

Just make small changes and keep at them and then when it's routine try to make a couple of more changes. Like cut down on the sugar in your tea/how many cups you drink. Don't eat more than one chocolate bar a day. Do a bit of exercise, but don't make it something you're not going to be able to stick to.

[rong]

Lol I don't eat anywhere near one chocolate bar a day. I think I'm going to start with an attempt at sugar and carbs reduction. But I genuinely don't know what to eat for breakfast and lunch that is low on carbs as the standard thing to buy is a sandwhich or pasta pot.

[eugmac]

see i'm getting married and i don't hafta impress da ladies no moar so i'm letting myself go and enjoy coffee and chocolate and beer and pizza. gl guys.

[eugmac]

that was mostly parodying the idea that being fit and healthy has anything to do with getting ladies.

[rong]

Also, you're a scrawny pussy. I'm 5'8" too but weigh 17.2 stone and can still do loads of pull ups

Everybody who says they don't wanna "get built" don't know what it's like to be built

Is that cos you're built like a tank or a fat fucker?

[eugmac]

not to say it doesn't help you get ladies, that i'm sure it can - i'm just saying, that's not the reason why you should think about being healthy.

[rong]

eEug, you're in a band, that must get you laid.

[eugmac]

i'm fwiw like tiny, 5'6 (168 cm) asian and weigh 63 kg which is 3 kg more than my norm, but I gained them during the last year or so being fairly lazy and eating out a lot, and beer, and candy.

edit 63 not 53!

edit2: which is 138 lbs for you idiot fuckers

[eugmac]

anyway dan and i are both like practically married and shit (dan even has kids), aren't we supposed to staawwwwp caring about outer image pretty soon and just strive for inner peace and happiness?

which means...

eating chocolate?

[rong]

But I live by the beach, the public shame is worse than the self loathing.

[eugmac]

oh ok then go do some situps. i'll do them with you, i promise.

[eugmac]

only after my all-carb breakfast, though.

[kiwiMark]

eggs for breakfast, chickensalad for lunch?

disclaimer: not advice based on anything, just starting a pool of suggestions for edible nocarb food

[eugmac]

just had 2 slices of toast with butter and honey. maybe i'll have one more slice. maybe i'll fry an egg to give me some balance.

[Savy]

But I live by the beach, the public shame is worse than the self loathing.

Alpha males are fat.

The whole reason for monogamous relationships is it allows you to get fat but keep getting your dick wet.

[rong]

Lol

Sex is better when you're fitter and also when you feel better about yourself. Plus as I improve the Mrs will too. She's already in way better shape than me.

[eugmac]

well, i used to have definition in my abs without doing anything, and continuing this strategy into my late 20s is turning out to not work so well. i'm seeing the beginnings of love handles.

[jackvance]

I mostly mentioned the chick thing (somewhat tongue in cheek) as a potential benefit, what motivated me to start jogging + doing sit-ups + push-ups was that if you go running for 20-30mins, it completely clears your head, which is a nice change of pace in a day. Then I sprained my ankle and was out for over a week. This was a month ago. I think I eat healthy though. Although if I read jyms' posts on diet, you can probably change that to unhealthy. The main problem is that I drink coke all day long. I've already switched in some orange juice in the past 2 weeks to counteract this, but it's too addictive to stop for me it seems.

[Savy]

Orange juice is awful for you too btw, if you're drinking it in large quantities.

[jackvance]

It has sugars too like coke, but I figure it still has to be healthier. I drink it mostly from packs, with the occasional fresh-squeezed glass. It's probably best to drink a lot of water, but I've never been able to sustain that without slipping up.

[a500lbgorilla]

Enlighten me Jimothy. How do I get sexy. It was easy when I was 17-22 because I was so busy anyway with sport, sex and working out and I could eat what I wanted while remaining in satisfactory shape. That is no longer the case with any of these. Give me some guide lines to follow that can start to make a difference.

I'm 5'8" and 12 stone, I have a bit of a belly and have lost the good shape I once had on my shoulders and chest. My diet isn't awful in terms of nutrients but is probably all wrong for what I want to achieve. I eat lots of fruit and veg but also a lot of shit in the form of pizza, sandwiches, chocolate, crisps etc and also have 1.5 teaspoons of sugar in my coffee which I drink approx 5 cups of per day.

I don't want to get particularly built, just toned with a flat-ish stomach, at least 4 abs on show, a decent set of shoulders and a chest that protrudes further from my body than my stomach.

I don't want or expect a detailed plan. If you gave me one I'd never follow it anyway. I certainly don't want to pay for advice, but I would appreciate some guidelines to follow in order to at least be heading in the right direction and not doing anything that's really counter productive.

Basically anything you feel like throwing out there would be useful. Same to anyone else who knows about this shit.

You're made of god dammed stones. If you want to change, you need to be talking to Michelangelo the sculptur not Arnold and his jizzing muscles.

[a500lbgorilla]

Also, is the sugar in coffee a big deal?

And for that matter, how does a 5'8 pile of stones even drink coffee?

[Jack Sawyer]

Being a smooth talker is more important to get the ladies. Confidence is king. How you get that is up to you.

Being fit is more important to keep the ladies. Minutemen are not in high demand, and not exercising (and shit nutrition) leads to low test levels, which in turn leads to Minutemenitis. Or worse.

[jyms]

FWIW, bread vs wraps? Read the label, and while your looking at the labe realize that it comes with a label, it's not food. Meat and veggies! Don't start trying to find better options just eat meat and veggies.

As for what to eat for breakfast, eggs, cottage cheese or greek yogurt with fresh fruit or veggies, meat, nuts. There is quite the change going on amongst certain communities switching to meat and nuts fro breakfast.

[jyms]

Being a smooth talker is more important to get the ladies. Confidence is king. How you get that is up to you.

Being fit is more important to keep the ladies. Minutemen are not in high demand, and not exercising (and shit nutrition) leads to low test levels, which in turn leads to Minutemenitis. Or worse.

This has been huge for a few guys I have worked with that had bigger bellies and health issues. Things like harder erections, ability to last, ability to get hard a second time all without medications were major reasons they worked with me in the first place. Not to mention, if you have a large gut and lose about 40lbs, you will gain roughly an inch on your equipment.

[jyms]

And just to pull a Wufwugy and triple post, for the guys saying they don't want to get very built, or huge. Don't sweat it. To get rather big naturally is quite hard to do. There are guys with more natural ability, better genetics and tons of natural testosterone in their bodies that can't get huge for many reasons. It doesn't happen as easily as you would think naturally. Bust your ass and get the benefits, when you come back and tell me you're too big, I will show you how to lengthen your muscles and lean out more. Guarantee you never post that.

[jyms]

It has sugars too like coke, but I figure it still has to be healthier. I drink it mostly from packs, with the occasional fresh-squeezed glass. It's probably best to drink a lot of water, but I've never been able to sustain that without slipping up.

IT's only healthier in terms of some added vitamins which are normally added after processing.. Drink the coke and take a multi and it's the same thing. Fresh squeezed is a different story. If you are where they squeeze the actual oranges. Not if it says fresh squeezed on the jug.

[jackvance]

Being a smooth talker is more important to get the ladies. Confidence is king. How you get that is up to you.

Being fit is more important to keep the ladies. Minutemen are not in high demand, and not exercising (and shit nutrition) leads to low test levels, which in turn leads to Minutemenitis. Or worse.

Confidence only follows skill imo.

IT's only healthier in terms of some added vitamins which are normally added after processing.. Drink the coke and take a multi and it's the same thing. Fresh squeezed is a different story. If you are where they squeeze the actual oranges. Not if it says fresh squeezed on the jug.

I squeeze them myself. Even drink the pulp because they say it's the healthiest part. But I mean, what should you drink besides water?

[jyms]

more water. Why drink your calories?

I drink black coffee, a couple a day. I drink soda water with real lemon and I drink water that I actually get from a natural spring. I've posted pics in the past. I do drink protein shakes and smoothies sometimes, but not as much as I used to. And yes, I may have a pop once in a blue moon, but it's rare.

[rong]

Does bacon count as meat? Sausages?

[jyms]

only if your eating a keto diet. IF you are completely carb free, no sugar, no flour, no carbs then yes. You would need to supply fats for immediate fuel sources. If your over about 20-50 carbs a day then no, high fat/high calorie processed meats are bad. Steak, chicken and lean pork is a go. OMLETTES are the bomb for meat and veggies.

[rong]

I just ordered a chicken salad for lunch. The subs looked great.

[Savy]

Hope you're not putting any salad dressing on it!

[rong]

How bad is porridge and honey for breakfast?

[rong]

Hope you're not putting any salad dressing on it!

Honey and mustard dressing ftw

[rong]

It was delicious but its like eating a starter and having no main.

[jyms]

Hope you're not putting any salad dressing on it!

If salad dressing is the worse thing you eat then you will be fine.

[jyms]

How bad is porridge and honey for breakfast?

Really? Which one is the protein and which one is the sugar?

Think of every food as one of three things, protein, sugar and fat. Nuts are counted as good fats, eat too much and get fat but good food in control. Veggies are nothing, real veggies, not potatoes. They are like water, required.

[jyms]

It was delicious but its like eating a starter and having no main.

Double the meat, More protein equals more full and quicker fat loss.

[givememyleg]

I've been wanting to give up bread for a while, but damn I just can't get over how good wheat toast is dunked in egg yolk. Also subs.

[wufwugy]

Lol I don't eat anywhere near one chocolate bar a day. I think I'm going to start with an attempt at sugar and carbs reduction. But I genuinely don't know what to eat for breakfast and lunch that is low on carbs as the standard thing to buy is a sandwhich or pasta pot.

Just experiment

Is that cos you're built like a tank or a fat fucker?

both

[jyms]

Not my pic, but this i what I do. I actually do this for several people now, preparing their lunches, breakfasts and sometimes post workout meals. I make meals according to diet type, calorie needs and meal frequency. My fridge always has at least 3-5 tupperware containers with meat and veggies, sometimes as much as 20



I also make homemade protein bars with and without carbs and fats too.

[Galapogos]

Things like harder erections, ability to last, ability to get hard a second time all without medications were major reasons they worked with me in the first place.

TIL jyms makes men get harder erections and last longer. No wonder bigred wanted to bunk with you in Vegas.

[Jack Sawyer]

And just to pull a Wufwugy and triple post, for the guys saying they don't want to get very built, or huge. Don't sweat it. To get rather big naturally is quite hard to do. There are guys with more natural ability, better genetics and tons of natural testosterone in their bodies that can't get huge for many reasons. It doesn't happen as easily as you would think naturally. Bust your ass and get the benefits, when you come back and tell me you're too big, I will show you how to lengthen your muscles and lean out more. Guarantee you never post that.

Myostatin IOW

[wufwugy]

As to what attracts, it's always a balancing thing. Sure if you're super confident and smooth you can get the job done just fine, but if you have a great body you don't need those other characteristics. Back when I had a great body, I didn't have to do anything but be myself and the women flocked. Since I've added a bit of fat, I've found I have to be really aggressive in order to get attention, but it's still never the level of attention I would get just by looking great in a t-shirt

[rong]

Looking good in a tight t goes a long way.

[Lukie]

Also, is the sugar in coffee a big deal?

Yes, it is a big deal, but probably not for the reason you are thinking. Sugar in your coffee.. Really? Do you drink vodka cranberries too?

I want you to start drinking black coffee and straight spirits for a while. Eventually you can add a little cream to your coffee or an ice cube to your whiskey.

Good riddance.

[wufwugy]

^^lol

shit is true tho

[JL]

mmmm vodka cranberry

No but seriously, don't put sugar in your coffee. Once you get used to it without sugar, you will never go back. Sugar actually ruins the taste of coffee for me now.

[jackvance]

I always take cream and sugar with my coffee. That must be for all 5 coffees I've drank in my life. Never really given them a fair shot. Even in the days I had to go over to clients very often, I always asked for a coke. Sometimes this awkwardly meant they had to go look for one somewhere else in the company, while coffee machines are everwhere and it's free. I wouldn't do that anymore now, in fact I might give coffee a try to get off of my coke addiction.

[Jack Sawyer]

Sugar actually ruins the taste of coffee for me now.

This.

I do drink café au lait though, and milk has a natural sweetening thing going on.

I wouldn't do that anymore now, in fact I might give coffee a try to get off of my coke addiction.

I used to drink a lot of cola, now I simply don't. I limit myself to 4 beverages: water, milk, yoghurt and red wine. I occasionally do coffee, with milk of course, and very occasionally I do some Hennessy (with Coco Rico or Sprite, I've earned those) or store bought fruit juices.

The plan is to introduce daily smoothies in the mix at some point.

I don't miss sodas for shit.

[wufwugy]

yeah sodas are nothing. a little creativity goes a long way

[Micro2Macro]

As to what attracts, it's always a balancing thing. Sure if you're super confident and smooth you can get the job done just fine, but if you have a great body you don't need those other characteristics. Back when I had a great body, I didn't have to do anything but be myself and the women flocked. Since I've added a bit of fat, I've found I have to be really aggressive in order to get attention, but it's still never the level of attention I would get just by looking great in a t-shirt

wat...

[wufwugy]

reread what i said. not needing super confidence isnt the same as not needing any confidence at all

[rong]

Yes, it is a big deal, but probably not for the reason you are thinking. Sugar in your coffee.. Really? Do you drink vodka cranberries too?

I want you to start drinking black coffee and straight spirits for a while. Eventually you can add a little cream to your coffee or an ice cube to your whiskey.

Good riddance.

Lol <3 lukie.

Lessens on how to be a real man.

I'd drink coffee with no sugar if its real coffee but I can't drink instant without it.

[jackvance]

reread what i said. not needing super confidence isnt the same as not needing any confidence at all

That's such a vague statement that it's pretty meaningless imo. Confidence is used as a short-cut for someone's skill, if you see someone being very confident about something we assume that they know what they're doing. But confidence alone is not sustainable without the skill to back it up.

Let's say there's this average guy, a random made up person to illustrate my point. He has poor social skills. Often he'll come off as arrogant when trying to act aloof. When trying to be friendly he'll sometimes come off as needy. When trying to be funny and tease people, he's usually just insulting people without realizing it. He never really connects with people, because, again without being aware of it, he's very selfish and assumes that whatever he has in his mind is interesting to everyone else, lacking the empathy needed to communicate with people in ways that they can relate to. He also sucks at recognizing social relationships that other people have with each-other, and will often speak in ways that are out of line with social dynamics, like openly trying to hit on a girl that is clearly paired off with someone else or trying to randomly belittle the dominant person in the group. And so on.

Now, this guy can act all confident, but it's not going to do him much good. It might help him to impress people he just met but they'll soon get annoyed by him and want to avoid him. The people that know him, shun him and don't care for him. He might tell stories to a new girl he just met which make him seem popular with other people, but when she sees how other people actually treat him, the illusion is quickly dispelled. I would argue that in his case being confident about himself is actually a downside. It would work out better for him if he was less confident. Then atleast he'd keep quiet instead of pissing people off and others would be more keen to be nice to him.

What our emotional system does in such situations is exactly that. If nothing is ever working out for you socially, your emotions will torpedo your confidence, and this makes that confidence is often a very good indicator of how skilled someone really is at whatever he is doing. In practice when someone gets more confident about himself (socially or about something in particular, like being good at dancing, football or minesweeper), this almost always follows from either increasing his skills, or changing external situations that make him perform better.

[Savy]

That's complete bollocks. I know plenty of people who are full of confidence yet absolutely useless at just about everything they do. I also know plenty of people who are fucking awesome at things and have absolutely no confidence.

The trend is much more to do with the positive reinforcement people have gotten for their actions, which you do say to an extent, but as very few people can actually judge if someone is good at something, it becomes much more about a very limited amount of qualities of a person no matter how good they are at other things.

Also you imply that most people who act super confident need it to whole illusion that they are who they are implying to last that long

[jackvance]

That's complete bollocks. I know plenty of people who are full of confidence yet absolutely useless at just about everything they do. I also know plenty of people who are fucking awesome at things and have absolutely no confidence.

I know it often seems like that. But you're never looking at the whole picture.

The trend is much more to do with the positive reinforcement people have gotten for their actions, which you do say to an extent, but as very few people can actually judge if someone is good at something,

We can't, it's too complex to recognize actual skill, instead we only look at results and infer skill from that. Same with social life, if someone with great confidence keeps saying and doing weird things which make you feel awkward and annoyed, it's pretty instant you'll think less of him than his initial confidence made you believe. Positive reinforcement is indeed exactly what I'm talking about. And this mostly comes from skill.

[Savy]

I'm aware of that, the point I'm making was that positive reinforcement doesn't come from skill. That's why there are so many people who are shit at things who have great confidence.

Anyway, to bring it back on topic.

Preplanning meals and having them in tuppawear boxes in the fridge/freezer is an awesome idea and I couldn't suggest it more to people. Although mine obviously aren't anything like what Jyms posted , but stuff like lasagne, curries, etc all keep pretty awesome and take minutes to reheat. And the time it takes to cook 4 portions is the same time it takes to cook 1 portion. Also saves time on cleaning, etc so well worth doing even if you aren't doing it for health reasons.

[Vinland]

So due to having children I often do my workouts later in the evening (9-10:30 pm) I usualy run or skip/shadowbox and then do weights. Am I supposed to have a post workout meal at 10:30pm? Or is there something quick I could/should have like cottage cheese?

[spoonitnow]

re: wufwugy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHxU7tgEhsA

[Lukie]

Lol <3 lukie.

Lessens on how to be a real man.

I'd drink coffee with no sugar if its real coffee but I can't drink instant without it.

brew a pot in the morning, have a cup, and pour the rest in a thermos.

just an idea.

[jyms]

So due to having children I often do my workouts later in the evening (9-10:30 pm) I usualy run or skip/shadowbox and then do weights. Am I supposed to have a post workout meal at 10:30pm? Or is there something quick I could/should have like cottage cheese?

.
Post workout meals are starting to be proven to not be of a lot of extra benefits in general fitness. Some whey protein or BCAA's post workout have proven to have some anabolic benefits but not so much when wwight loss or aerobic health is concerned. So long as your getting your calorie and required nutrients. Cottage cheese is a great food late int he evening for a lot of reasons, one is that it's filling and takes forever to digest.

[rong]

I'm using couscous as a rice/pasta substitute. How's that?

[jyms]

Lol <3 lukie.

Lessens on how to be a real man.

I'd drink coffee with no sugar if its real coffee but I can't drink instant without it.

You couldn't pay me to drink instant coffee, it's horrible and the reason you can't drink it black. Having to dump cream and sugar into something to make it tolerable should tell you not to put it in your body. It's actually shown to have caused issues in cholesterol health. There was some studies done showing improvements in cholesterol health from switching to brewed coffee and even more so when paper filters are used. Black coffee is actually considered health food when your not using it to wake up, perk up or get through days from poor energy levels. Couple cups a day is golden.

[jyms]

I'm using couscous as a rice/pasta substitute. How's that?

*facepalm*

How much protein? How much carbs? how much fibre? I'll make you a deal, if it has more protein and fiber together vs carbs then you can eat it. Why not just eat broccoli? cauliflower? brussel sprouts? Cabbage? Eggplant? Zucchini? Bok Choi? Asparagus?

Buy cauliflower, boil, mash with some butter, salt and pepper and tell me you miss potatoes?

[givememyleg]

because couscous is fucking delicious, especially with all those veggies mixed in.

[rong]

*facepalm*

How much protein? How much carbs? how much fibre? I'll make you a deal, if it has more protein and fiber together vs carbs then you can eat it. Why not just eat broccoli? cauliflower? brussel sprouts? Cabbage? Eggplant? Zucchini? Bok Choi? Asparagus?

Buy cauliflower, boil, mash with some butter, salt and pepper and tell me you miss potatoes?

I don't get this post. It's like you're implying I don't eat vegetables or understand the range of veg available to me.

I didn't just eat couscous. I ate chicken, onion, leeks, yellow pepper, sugarsnap peas, sweetcorn and aubergine (all fresh) stir fried with couscous as an accompaniment so it actually fills me up, the veg and chicken mix taking up half a plate, I eat a lot of veg.

Mashed cauliflower is an interesting idea. Will give that a try.

I read that couscous isn't a particularly bad carb as it's low on the glycerine scale (I have no idea what the fuck that means) so it's not a bad thing to add to your plate and also it burns slow so it keeps you feeling full for longer.

[rong]

Perhaps I need this

http://www.zeronoodles.com/

[rong]

Also, have you tried peanut curried chicken with couscous? It's fucking amazing! Like, seriously amazing.

[wufwugy]

That's such a vague statement that it's pretty meaningless imo. Confidence is used as a short-cut for someone's skill, if you see someone being very confident about something we assume that they know what they're doing. But confidence alone is not sustainable without the skill to back it up.

Let's say there's this average guy, a random made up person to illustrate my point. He has poor social skills. Often he'll come off as arrogant when trying to act aloof. When trying to be friendly he'll sometimes come off as needy. When trying to be funny and tease people, he's usually just insulting people without realizing it. He never really connects with people, because, again without being aware of it, he's very selfish and assumes that whatever he has in his mind is interesting to everyone else, lacking the empathy needed to communicate with people in ways that they can relate to. He also sucks at recognizing social relationships that other people have with each-other, and will often speak in ways that are out of line with social dynamics, like openly trying to hit on a girl that is clearly paired off with someone else or trying to randomly belittle the dominant person in the group. And so on.

Now, this guy can act all confident, but it's not going to do him much good. It might help him to impress people he just met but they'll soon get annoyed by him and want to avoid him. The people that know him, shun him and don't care for him. He might tell stories to a new girl he just met which make him seem popular with other people, but when she sees how other people actually treat him, the illusion is quickly dispelled. I would argue that in his case being confident about himself is actually a downside. It would work out better for him if he was less confident. Then atleast he'd keep quiet instead of pissing people off and others would be more keen to be nice to him.

What our emotional system does in such situations is exactly that. If nothing is ever working out for you socially, your emotions will torpedo your confidence, and this makes that confidence is often a very good indicator of how skilled someone really is at whatever he is doing. In practice when someone gets more confident about himself (socially or about something in particular, like being good at dancing, football or minesweeper), this almost always follows from either increasing his skills, or changing external situations that make him perform better.

You make some good points, but I think they're different than what I was getting at

Make a list of all the things women like. Three brought up in this thread are (1) super confidence, (2) smooth talking, and (3) a great body. Jack Sawyer made that point that the first two are all you need, and my point was that if you have the latter you don't need the first two. Both of those are true

Furthermore, I would argue that when all things are reasonable, changing body composition has the biggest effect on attraction for women. As long as you have a decent level of style, manners, intelligence, status, etc, you'll get the most bang for your buck in improving your body. You could argue that women are just as attracted to the physical as men. If they're not, it's still really close.


In my personal life, I've always been a smooth talker and have a great personality, but I've noticed a pretty substantial difference is womens' attraction to me just on how my body changes. Back when I was a ripped 190, I didn't have to work for any attention at all, but as I gained weight and got up to 240, they treat me like if I want to be close to them, I have to work for it.

[Savy]

In my personal life, I've always been a smooth talker and have a great personality

I wish I was you!

before you got fat ldo

[wufwugy]

im also crazy. it runs in the family

[jyms]

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Artic...Breakfast.aspx