FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

[deacon_bluez]

Sure glad we got Obama, that friend of poker, elected so he could sic his DOJ on the poker sites and players. Wonder what Barney Frank has to say right now. Or Harry Reid, for that matter.

On the bright side, this nearly makes me forget the two-outer on the river that stacked me this morning. Guess it was all play money.

Anyone know if we can use PS FPP's in the store?

[drmcboy]

i got sleepy but still in the 50c, final bullet??

[kevster]

This affects me so much less than others and in so many ways. I'm still mighty pissed though.

Let's see what happens with this....

USD (not much) will be credited to your MoneyBookers account ([email protected]) within 72 hours.
Credit transaction #xxxxx1643

[drmcboy]

finally something good today

Hi DrMcBoy,

Congratulations on busting Leo Bello in the following tournament:

$18,500 Guarantee (1r+1a) (232507080)

Your Full Tilt Poker account has been credited with a bounty prize of $50.00.

In addition to your bounty prize money, you've also earned a T-shirt to commemorate your accomplishment. You'll receive a second email that will allow you to claim this shirt and confirm your shipping details.

Remember, Full Tilt Poker offers a bounty for busting any red pro playing in any scheduled real-money tournament with 30 players or more. You can collect a bounty matching the tournament buy-in (not including tournament fee) up to $50 for Multi-Entry Tournaments or $200 for all other tournaments.

We're happy to have you playing at Full Tilt Poker - best of luck at the tables!

Sincerely,

Full Tilt Poker

[kevster]

FWIW, my SNG lobby looks depressing. Around 20 games available, almost all with the same 4 regs/multi-tablers. Games filling up super super slow.

[kevster]

Regardless of what the DoJ want to do, Stars have to start pulling the guaranteed tournies or they'll bring themselves down eventually.

Crazy look to the Tourney/All lobby already. Tomorrow will be madness.

[Trons]

well, FT isn't affected yet...I just played some SnG's without a problem.

I may not be able to cash out, but I can still play....which is more then I can say for stars

[drmcboy]

sounds like from 2+2 threads if you close FT you can't re open. Maybe I can sneak in plo tomorrow

[givememyleg]

OP has all info I currently know... mods feel free to edit and add more.

[PokerMatt2011]

Closed FTP for a system reboot, and can't access software now. Says it needs to update, and encounters an error while updating, and closes quickly. Glad I shipped a chunk of my (small) BR 2 weeks ago, everything cleared and "all's well" in that regard.

Fucking sucks that I had just gotten back into the grind, spent soooo much time over a few months preparing to hit the tables, just to be submarined by this ridiculous BS.

Regardless of what happens next, you guys have been great. The info on this site is priceless in many ways other than just online poker. With exceptions to certain flamers (and I don't mean chewing someones ass for not following the "clearly stated rules about posting", I mean the douchebags who could make someone's day by offering their valuable input on a hand and instead flame the thread), everyone here has taught me alot. And, I appreciate your time, and the stickies, and the blogs on the forum. I'm not going anywhere, and look forward to getting picked-on in the threads.



Long live online poker. I fucking hate people from Manhattan anyhow, especially the DA's office.

Matt

[mbiz]

my direct bank transfer is waiting too. australia.

I left $100 on because im close to silverstar and still wanna grind that shit

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

I cashed a check last week that went through (as of 4/4)

My check from 11/4 bounced. I'm afraid I won't be able to reclaim this check... I just hope the first one holds ONE TIME!!

I wonder if I changed my address to Australia if I could still play and maybe have a shot at getting my money faster?

I hope this situation looks a lot better in a week

[profnabeshin]

i live in Las Vegas... Do you guys think the live cash games will become softer or harder?

[bigspenda73]

according to PokerStars Steve all of our funds are safe, he even clarified this means Americans as well

of course what else is he going to say "sky is falling, no one is getting paid, etc...", PS/FTP have enough problems right now w/o stirring that up.

[Beck]

This is my assumption:
These sites act like banks. They take all this money in from players and keep a percentage of it on hand for people who want to cash out. The rest of it they invest. Back in the day many many years ago before banks were FDIC insured, banks would keep a 1:6 ratio. They felt that that was a safe amount of money to keep if there was a high demand for cash. A 1:6 ratio would obviously not be enough in a large bank run (its when a major chunk of their clients try to withdraw their money,) and that bank would go out of business. Today, with FDIC insurance by the US government the ratio is now closer to 1:20.

Now if I was to run a poker site I too would keep some cash on hand, but it would be very wise of me to invest the rest of it. I would bet all these poker sites do just that. Now what their ratio is, I do not know, but I would bet it is much higher that 1:6. My guess is, with the lawyer fees, the seizures, and add in all these non US costumers who have successfully transfered their funds, and those funds that are pending, they do not have enough cash to pay off all their clients.

What all this means is that these sites will have no choice but to go bankrupt.

This is just an opinion, but this whole thing really looks like a massive bankrun to me. I have kissed my Full tilt and AP cash goodbye. Today I play a nice live cash game where I know I get to cash out at the end of the night.

BTW, if I was the owner of a bank in a bank run I too would be saying that your money is safe, and try to make out with as much of it as possible.

-Beck

[a500lbgorilla]

The poker sites are licensed and pokerstars has stated that they keep money to cover total withdrawal.

They're not like banks which use fractional reserve banking.

[bigspenda73]

In today's economy it sure would be nice if the DoJ made sure all the Americans received their funds before bankrupting PS

Wishful thinking but damn I know we could all use the money.

[Beck]

The poker sites are licensed and pokerstars has stated that they keep money to cover total withdrawal.

They're not like banks which use fractional reserve banking.

They are licensed by whom? And what real authority do these licenses offer?
How do you know that their reserves are not fractional?

-beck

[CBAT]

Withdraw my decently sized roll now? Or wait...?

Not sure what the best choice is. =\

[bigspenda73]

They are licensed by whom? And what real authority do these licenses offer?
How do you know that their reserves are not fractional?

-beck

What rilla said is technically true, Poker sites have said they have enough to cover players funds and are licensed but not by the US

but sadly what Beck is hinting at is probably closer to the actual truth

[bigspenda73]

this jsut popped up when I went to FTP's website

Full Tilt Poker™ Supports Poker Players And Its Chief Executive

Dublin Ireland (April 15, 2011) - Full Tilt Poker is saddened by today's charges against its CEO Raymond Bitar and offers its full support to Mr. Bitar and Nelson Burtnick.

Online poker is a game of skill enjoyed by tens of millions of people in the United States and across the world. And, Full Tilt Poker remains as committed as ever to preserving the rights of those players to play the game they love online.

Mr. Bitar and Full Tilt Poker believe online poker is legal - a position also taken by some of the best legal minds in the United States. Full Tilt Poker is, and has always been committed to preserving the integrity of the game and abiding by the law.

"I am surprised and disappointed by the government's decision to bring these charges. I look forward to Mr. Burtnick's and my exoneration", said Mr. Bitar.

Unfortunately, as a result of this action, Full Tilt Poker has decided that it must suspend "real money" play in the United States until this case is resolved. However, Full Tilt Poker will continue to provide peer-to-peer online poker services outside of the United States.

For more information, please call +442032877138 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +442032877138 end_of_the_skype_highlighting

About Full Tilt Poker

Full Tilt Poker™ is the host of a worldwide virtual poker cardroom service. It is not in the business of betting or wagering and does not participate in the games as a player. It merely provides a service to those who wish to test their skills against others for fun, prizes or money. It is duly regulated and licensed by the Alderney Gambling Control Commission. With innovative graphics, superior customer service and a safe, secure interface, the software is geared to enhance and personalize the online poker experience. Although virtual poker is legal where the games are hosted and played, it may not be legal where individual players are located.

[mbiz]

did they say whats up with take2? i cant check my promo page !

[profnabeshin]

This is going to save Full Tilt a shitload on the 'Take 2' as I was 1 day from the $25 and I am sure many other Americans also were 1 day away.

Rilla brings up the point that the sites claim to have funds for total withdrawl. Of course they will say that... they want everyone to feel safe and confidant when they deposit money on the site. However, this is all happening as a result of money laundering and bribing bank officials to run money through banks and shell companies. Can we really believe anything that these sites tell us?

IMO we are all fucked, our money is gone. Might as well open up a beer and drink ourselves into a coma.

[Donachello]

Anyone been able to successfully call the number? Doesnt seem to work from the US

[BennyLaRue]

Anyone been able to successfully call the number? Doesnt seem to work from the US

I know, right? Where's the + on my phone?

[Donachello]

Also, what are the thoughts on the entities like SportsBook that seem to be legal in the US but also provide poker games?

[Shotglass]

I think I'm going to adopt a wait and see attitude.
I'd like to move my roll to one of the smaller poker sites, like PokerNordica to be able to keep playing but before that I should probably wait to see if any of the other US sites pull out of the market. It'd suck to make that move and then be blocked in a week or two.

Edit: God, hangovers suck!

[EasyPoker]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3202

[BooG690]

QuadJacks Black Friday on USTREAM: QuadJacks and friends reflect upon the current state of online poker in America, after the clusterfuck that befell it on...

[Ragnar4]

As far as I understand, The UIEGA doesn't make it illegal for Americans to play poker, it makes it illegal for other sites to provide us the service. So cashing out shouldn't be that much of a problem. The lynchpin was the transfer of funds to offshore accounts.

[Ragnar4]

I also pulled my funds and ran.. hopefully the e-check clears. lol.

[Shotglass]

As far as I understand, The UIEGA doesn't make it illegal for Americans to play poker, it makes it illegal for other sites to provide us the service. So cashing out shouldn't be that much of a problem. The lynchpin was the transfer of funds to offshore accounts.

Yeah. My understanding is that the UIGEA imposed some stringent rules that made the the transfer of funds to and from online gaming sites a form of money laundering but did not make playing poker online illegal.

[cr4zybe4utifu1]

I find it funny that googling for the full text of H.R.4411 I find the "Internet Gambling Prohibition and Enforcement Act" instead of the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act." Did the name change, or did it always have multiple names?

Edit: Bill Text - 109th Congress (2005-2006) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

[BooG690]

I think those are two different bills/laws/whatever. The UIGEA was part of the SAFE Port Act.

[JoeOE18]

I find it funny that googling for the full text of H.R.4411 I find the "Internet Gambling Prohibition and Enforcement Act" instead of the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act." Did the name change, or did it always have multiple names?

Edit: Bill Text - 109th Congress (2005-2006) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

To quote Wikipedia: The Act was passed on the last day before Congress adjourned for the 2006 elections. Though a bill with the gambling wording was previously debated and passed by the House of Representatives,[6][7][8] the SAFE Port Act (H.R. 4954) as passed by the House on May 4th (by a vote of 421-2) and the United States Senate on September 14th (98-0),[9] bore no traces of the Unlawful Internet Gambling and Enforcement Act that was included in the SAFE Port Act signed into law by George W. Bush on October 13th, 2006.[10] The UIGEA was added in Conference Report 109-711 (submitted at 9:29pm on September 29, 2006), which was passed by the House of Representatives by a vote of 409-2 and by the Senate by unanimous consent on September 30, 2006.

[cr4zybe4utifu1]

Yes it was part of the safe port act. The UIGEA and the prohibition bill are the versions of the same HR4411. Not exactly sure what that means. Updated with amendments or something?

[cr4zybe4utifu1]

Did a little further digging and found the prohibition one also being referred to as HR 4777. So it looks like they are separate bills then.

[CBAT]

Real convenient that tax season ends on Monday and most people have paid their income taxes in the united states, and some people pay it on all the money that they earned, not just the money that they've withdrawn. So hopefully that will entitle US citizens to their money.

[Ender]

^I found it interesting, but I found it more interesting that online poker was legalized in hot spots in D.C. just a short time before this whole thing went down.

[boost]

People, stop causing all this drama. As far as we know, the sites have money to cover all players accounts. They may be lying, but you also have to realize that their business is not like that of a bank. They are not paying out interest on deposits, they are taking money in the form of rake. If a bank kept a 1:1 rule it is unlikely that they could pay interest on deposits. For a bank it is a necessity to employ fractional reserve banking if they wish to operate as one would expect a bank to operate. The same is not true for pokersites, it would be a function of greed for them to abandon a 1:1 ratio. So thats not to say that it isn't the case, but unless you all are privy to some info that I am not, then shut the fuck up with your wild speculations about gloom and doom.

[a500lbgorilla]

^this very much

And also, I'm not sure if Ender and CBAT were insinuating anything with strange timings, but it's more plausible that the feds simply moved on the case once they could move on the case. It requires less coordination with shadowy puppetmasters.

As I understand it they caught the guy with full knowledge of the payment processors and threatened him with 75 years, so he offered them billion dollar money launders in exchange for his own skin. Once the feds were given such a case on a silver platter, it was probably on all go.

[Shotglass]

My understanding of the laws of the Isle of Mann is that Stars is required to players accounts fenced and separate from corporate funds. I'd just wait it out.

Quad Jacks has been streaming for like 14 hours now:
QuadJacks Black Friday on USTREAM: QuadJacks and friends reflect upon the current state of online poker in America, after the clusterfuck that befell it on...

[Ender]

lol drama? You suddenly rip away a source of entertainment (which some people had a decent amount of cash in) without any information on possible refunds/transfer/or if the money will even be seen again, and you don't expect any sort of speculation or (for the lack of a better word) fear?

I myself hardly had any money on the sites, as for me it's still in the low limits phase of the game. But, for those who stand to lose a nice sized bankroll (even if general feeling is you'll eventually get it back), you can't hardly think you should quiet people from voicing an opinion on a public forum?

And also, I'm not sure if Ender and CBAT were insinuating anything with strange timings, but it's more plausible that the feds simply moved on the case once they could move on the case. It requires less coordination with shadowy puppetmasters.

As I understand it they caught the guy with full knowledge of the payment processors and threatened him with 75 years, so he offered them billion dollar money launders in exchange for his own skin. Once the feds were given such a case on a silver platter, it was probably on all go.

I wasn't so much insinuating as I was saying that when I read it (the hot spots in D.C., and then the sites being frozen by the FBI later; and how closely dated each of them were) put one of those ironic smiles on my face. One of those weird moments where it doesn't look like the people involved with each of those were talking to each other.

I understand that those involved with the laundering and all that had to play it close to the vest. But at the same time, this entire case didn't just appear yesterday, they've been building it and building it ever since the guy said that he'd get them the bigger fish to fry.

[Sasquach991]

Looks like I may have significant "Gambling Losses" to report on my 2011 tax return.

[boost]

lol drama? You suddenly rip away a source of entertainment (which some people had a decent amount of cash in) without any information on possible refunds/transfer/or if the money will even be seen again, and you don't expect any sort of speculation or (for the lack of a better word) fear?

I also expect a person with down syndrome to lick windows... when he does in fact lick a window it doesn't make him any less of a retard.

I myself hardly had any money on the sites, as for me it's still in the low limits phase of the game. But, for those who stand to lose a nice sized bankroll (even if general feeling is you'll eventually get it back), you can't hardly think you should quiet people from voicing an opinion on a public forum?

Most people I know who have lots of money online are not running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Is there a rational fear? Yes, but it doesn't lead to wild speculation that does nothing but bread more fear and inflate the problem.

[surviva316]

Looks like I may have significant "Gambling Losses" to report on my 2011 tax return.

i lol'ed hard at this

[surviva316]

ok, so say PS has enough money to pay everyone out in full...and then they all of the sudden owe 80 billion dollars in court. Then what?

[boost]

I understand that those involved with the laundering and all that had to play it close to the vest. But at the same time, this entire case didn't just appear yesterday, they've been building it and building it ever since the guy said that he'd get them the bigger fish to fry.

And it built to the point where they felt they had a sufficiently strong case, then they made arrests. That day happened to be April 15th. You are mimicking the way that 9/11 conspiracy documentaries communicate, "heres some coincidental occurances, and heres some hints at how they really are evidence to how this was all a big conspiracy!" Its a really annoying and disingenuous way to conduct yourself.

[boost]

ok, so say PS has enough money to pay everyone out in full...and then they all of the sudden owe 80 billion dollars in court. Then what?

For PokerStars specifically, it has been mentioned in this thread that the Law in the country they operate from (Isle of Mann) is that they must not only have 1:1 cash on hand for all players accounts, but that they must be in a seperate account. If this law is followed, it would mean their business cashflow has nothing to do with players account balances. In other words, its not like PS's liquid cash is equal to X when X = total of players account balances...

[thelorax]

For PokerStars specifically, it has been mentioned in this thread that the Law in the country they operate from (Isle of Mann) is that they must not only have 1:1 cash on hand for all players accounts, but that they must be in a seperate account. If this law is followed, it would mean their business cashflow has nothing to do with players account balances. In other words, its not like PS's liquid cash is equal to X when X = total of players account balances...

yes yes, from what ive read this is true.

[drmcboy]

seems like it's all good as long as I never log out of FT or want to withdrawal, crisis averted.

[fulksy]

are FTOPS guarantees all going to be lowered

[Warpe]

ok, so say PS has enough money to pay everyone out in full...and then they all of the sudden owe 80 billion dollars in court. Then what?

Ain't gonna happen. They'll settle like Party Poker did.

[drmcboy]

all of the regular gts are lower today, I'm sure FTOPS will also. event 1 says 3M right now

[fulksy]

ah i was gonna break try and sat into a few if they had big overlays

[kevster]

Due to the recent developments in the U.S.A., Pokerstars had changed many tournament guarantees to reflect the absence of U.S.A. players.

Had to happen.

[donkbee]

seems like it's all good as long as I never log out of FT or want to withdrawal, crisis averted.

hah

[drmcboy]

looks like they already have the new gtds pretty well figured, most of mine are just over

[drmcboy]

just busted my last 200 plo /cry

[JacksKing]

It was a black friday for online poker, but not all hope is lost. It seems the sites are up again at fulltilpoker.co.uk and pokerstars.eu but real money games and deposits are blocked for US players.

[Shotglass]

It was a black friday for online poker, but not all hope is lost. It seems the sites are up again at fulltilpoker.co.uk and pokerstars.eu but real money games and deposits are blocked for US players.

Wow! You're quick.

[drmcboy]

all of the regular gts are lower today, I'm sure FTOPS will also. event 1 says 3M right now

per 2+2 now 1M, I probably cannot see since I do not have the update

[daven]

looks like they already have the new gtds pretty well figured, most of mine are just over

yep, i played quite a few last night chasing overlay and the best was like -20% or something

all of the regular gts are lower today, I'm sure FTOPS will also. event 1 says 3M right now

confirmed - well, that's from looking at the tourney lobby just now anyway

[Ender]

And it built to the point where they felt they had a sufficiently strong case, then they made arrests. That day happened to be April 15th. You are mimicking the way that 9/11 conspiracy documentaries communicate, "heres some coincidental occurances, and heres some hints at how they really are evidence to how this was all a big conspiracy!" Its a really annoying and disingenuous way to conduct yourself.

Ok? I figured I clarified that I was more amused at it, rather than actually entertaining any ideas of reality with it. And I certainly never sounded anywhere near a conspiracy theorist. I can see the annoyance with some of the aspects of comments and all that, and I brush it off. But ok.

[OngBonga]

I also expect a person with down syndrome to lick windows... when he does in fact lick a window it doesn't make him any less of a retard.

This is the single greatest thing I ever read in my life. How do I make this my sig?

Oh, it's business as usual for me in the UK, except there's no Yanks at the tables. I'm shocked to admit this, but I kinda miss you guys, there's less English speakers for me to argue with.

[drmcboy]

1/10 in 70 freeze

should I use my on line one time??

[Zorkion]

Ok, I'm just going to put this out there-

Since FTP is still up for non-US players (supposedly), would be possible for US players to just get an offshore bank account, and then connect to FTP through a proxy? I know in the menu of the .NET client, under the 'Security' menu, in 'Network Options', it gives you the option to use your system's proxy configuration.

Has anyone tried this or know if i works?

[drmcboy]

even if it did you need residency elsewhere to cash out.

general 2+2 consensus seems to be no proxy can get around

[Nakamura]

OMG I wish this had happened ages ago, play was ridiculously bad tonight without all the US regs. I could finally sit down at a table without 5 other regs sitting in on my game.

Seriously though, it's pretty bad news. I have just tried to withdraw some of my roll from Stars, which hopefully goes ahead or there'll be some pretty lean times ahead for me.

[Icanhastreebet]

OMG I wish this had happened ages ago, play was ridiculously bad tonight without all the US regs. I could finally sit down at a table without 5 other regs sitting in on my game.

Seriously though, it's pretty bad news. I have just tried to withdraw some of my roll from Stars, which hopefully goes ahead or there'll be some pretty lean times ahead for me.

If you are outside of america I wouldn't worry at all. I "was" worried but am no longer after I heard some people more educated on this. It'll go to court. They'll settle. They are still raking like 5million$/day so they aren't going to suddenly disappear because of this.

That's just my opinion.

[drmcboy]

HU



Full Tilt - 1700/3400 NL - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (SB): 329,230.00
BB: 375,268.00
BTN: 153,502.00

Hero posts ante 400.00, BB posts ante 400.00, BTN posts ante 400.00, Hero posts SB 1,700.00, BB posts BB 3,400.00

Pre Flop: (6300.00) Hero has 7 6

BTN raises to 6,950.00, Hero calls 5,250.00, BB calls 3,550.00

Flop: (22050.00, 3 players) 4 T 9
Hero bets 15,435.00, fold, BTN calls 15,435.00

Turn: (52920.00, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 34,000.00, BTN raises to 130,717.00 and is all-in, Hero calls 96,717.00


River: (314354.00, 2 players) Q

BTN shows J 8 (Straight, Queen High) (PreFlop 60%, Flop 50%, Turn 80%)
Hero shows 7 6 (Flush, Queen High) (PreFlop 40%, Flop 50%, Turn 20%)
Hero wins 314,354.00

[Openside]

I'm in Canada and have not been able to get on since yesterdays 'events'. It says there is an update, which constantly aborts. Others getting this? Anyway to circumvent? Anyone heard of pending action to rectify?

[daven]

Hero shows 7 6 (Flush, Queen High) (PreFlop 40%, Flop 50%, Turn 20%)
Hero wins 314,354.00

ftw imo gogogo

[rpm]

I'm in Canada and have not been able to get on since yesterdays 'events'. It says there is an update, which constantly aborts. Others getting this? Anyway to circumvent? Anyone heard of pending action to rectify?

was having that problem all day yesterday. managed to get the new software downloaded last night.

[BountyJoker]

is doyles room safe? or should we americans put a hold on every site till this clears ? yea my FT software finally updated after 5th attempt. i use ewallet and contacted support about withdrawl. it prompted all tourny tickets & tourny dollars could be conveted got over $200 in Mini FTOPS tickets which were never convertible before but tourny dollars always. im not trusting the 'funds are safe' jig. isnt it great to that they use Stars & FT as the #1 sponsors on the WPT viewed by millions. yea 1 more day till my take 2 was complete & silver iron man bonus. Was on a good roll of finally profiting. just crushed my livelyhood. im paralyzed and stuck inside at all hours. solitare @ POGO yiptee flippin day