FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

[Luco]

You bumped a thread that's already on the commune front page? lolbump

It was #1 when I posted that. More of a request than an action fwiw

[d0zer]

As a non-invested, and relatively objective observer, I have to say that these signs are the most encouraging I've seen throughout this whole shitshow. A company doesn't typically start investing in hiring and/or testing if they're still stuck in a legal quagmire, or if the money isn't there yet.

I wouldn't start celebrating or anything, nothing's for sure, but it does look promising...

[boost]

As a non-invested, and relatively objective observer, I have to say that these signs are the most encouraging I've seen throughout this whole shitshow. A company doesn't typically start investing in hiring and/or testing if they're still stuck in a legal quagmire, or if the money isn't there yet.

I wouldn't start celebrating or anything, nothing's for sure, but it does look promising...

Ya, this is how I feel. It seems like some % of our money is coming our way. The only questions now are how long and how much.

[d0zer]

Ya, this is how I feel. It seems like some % of our money is coming our way. The only questions now are how long and how much.

You think there's a chance they would only repay SOME of the manies? I think it's either FTP is up and running and every player balance is repaid (except for TonyG's) or FTP is not up and running and nobody gets anything.

[Illfavor]

I thought the deal with the DoJ required the Tapie group to fully repay US players.

[boost]

You think there's a chance they would only repay SOME of the manies? I think it's either FTP is up and running and every player balance is repaid (except for TonyG's) or FTP is not up and running and nobody gets anything.

Ya, idk, I haven't been following that closely, but I thought it was up to the DOJ to pay us back with the money they had seized, and the money they had seized seemed to be < the money owed.

I thought the deal with the DoJ required the Tapie group to fully repay US players.

I sure fucking hope this is the case. It makes the most sense, and d0zer has a good point, it should be all or nothing.. but who really knows with this mess?

[bode]

Ya, idk, I haven't been following that closely, but I thought it was up to the DOJ to pay us back with the money they had seized, and the money they had seized seemed to be < the money owed.



I sure fucking hope this is the case. It makes the most sense, and d0zer has a good point, it should be all or nothing.. but who really knows with this mess?

the last i read Tapie was in charge of repaying the rest of world players and the DOJ was in charge of the US players.

[BooG690]

I thought the deal with the DoJ required the Tapie group to fully repay US players.

The DOJ is paying us our money back. Tapie Group is paying the rest of the world back.

[NightGizmo]

I thought the deal with the DoJ required the Tapie group to fully repay US players.

It required the Tapie group to give the DOJ the full amount owed to US players. We'll have to get our money back from the DOJ, that's what worries me.

[NightGizmo]

It required the Tapie group to give the DOJ the full amount owed to US players. We'll have to get our money back from the DOJ, that's what worries me.

Edit: whoops, didn't notice there was a new page, others already covered this.

Edit again: double fail, this was not supposed to be a new post

[drmcboy]

It required the Tapie group to give the DOJ the full amount owed to US players.

No. They paid (or will pay) 80m.

BREAKING: DOJ and GBT Ink Their Deal, FTP/GBT Next in the Queue | Subject: Poker

Is it possible the DoJ has already decided to use seized money or that they made some sort of back room deal to get the money from Tapie? Sure. But no one with any knowledge has ever said a deal means US gets paid in full or for that matter how much of the 80m will go into the remission pool.

We'll have to get our money back from the DOJ, that's what worries me.

Maybe. there are rumors that they may just re open the FT client to us at some point with no functions besides a w/d button. If we end up getting paid in full this would clearly be the best choice. If they need to pay us in stages and evaluate each claim for taxes, phantom deposits etc I would think they would want to do that up front & outside of the FT client. Also, attempting to apply logic to this process is probably futile.

[drmcboy]

Assuming they re open

I'm sure ROW will get paid, maybe not all at once.

US... we'll get something, sometime.

I thought the deal with the DoJ required the Tapie group to fully repay US players.

The DoJ will pay us with money from Tapie but AFAWK that money doesn't cover US balances. DoJ may use seized funds, go after phantom depositors, or some other source to cover the difference, no one knows.

[drmcboy]

There are also three groups that are counted in the total US $ that may not claim:

People who didn't pay taxes (no idea, could be a lot?)

People who had $142.42 on FT from Jan 2005 and have totally forgotten it's there and have no idea BF happened.

US People who moved to ROW - not a big % of players, but the people with the biggest balances had the most incentive to move. It isn't clear who pays them yet.

[rpm]

go to bed man. you need some rest.

[bikes]

New Full Tilt Limited: Tapie Funds New Irish Company with €1m | Pokerfuse Online Poker News

[bikes]

AGCC to Hold Public Hearing for Full Tilt License Application | Pokerfuse Online Poker News

[givememyleg]

Big News: PokerStars Purchases FTP(?) - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

WHAT?!?! ONE TIME?

[surviva316]

My brain is falling out of my ears.

[Illfavor]

Looks like GBT has confirmed that they're out.

[givememyleg]

Looks like GBT has confirmed that they're out.

link/source?

[thelorax]

using my One Time now.
that is all.

[Keith]

if its a choice between stars and Tapie .... stars every time.

Guess phil Ivey will still be the face of full tilt lol

[d0zer]

My first thought was "lol virtual monopoly".

Happy for people gettin' paid obv but it may mean gg straight FTP RB.

[Fnord]

My first thought was "lol virtual monopoly".

Government is really what would be driving who gets to run games in the US. So that concerns me a lot more on the monopoly front.

Putting together hold'em software and a payment processor is not that hard relative to the kinds of things done at Zynga, Blizzard, Riot, Trion, etc.

[kiwiMark]

Cliffs:
- EGR sources say Groupe Bernard Tapie announced that proposed deal to buy FTP failed
- Reasons are 1) inability to agree on repayment plan for players and 2) legal complications
- GBT says they get from press reports that DOJ and PokerStars have an agreement
- GBt assumes that Stars is willing to take the financial and legal risks (that they weren´t willing to take) to sort out their own legal situation with DOJ

scary part being that it looks like Stars involvement rumors really do only come from GBT speculation, at this point

[kiwiMark]

although

PokerUpdate » Pokerstars purchase Full Tilt Poker.

UPDATE: PokerUpdate has received information from credible sources at Full Tilt offices in Cherry Wood, Dublin that PokerStars have indeed purchased the Full Tilt assets.

[surviva316]

Good God! Today just might be the day that I finally change my posts per page settings on 2p2.

[kiwiMark]

all of these sites circle-jerking each other are now saying it's officially announced and confirmed that stars is buying FTP, but none of them seem to be able to say who is announcing or confirming or quote this announcement at all (just the one statement from GBT, that speculates that stars and doj are in bed)

anyone seeing anything different?

[surviva316]

all of these sites circle-jerking each other are now saying it's officially announced and confirmed that stars is buying FTP, but none of them seem to be able to say who is announcing or confirming or quote this announcement at all (just the one statement from GBT, that speculates that stars and doj are in bed)

anyone seeing anything different?

A lot of reputable people being told by people who are in the know. So a lot of third-hand anonymous material.

[kiwiMark]

I hear you. so.much.shit to scroll through

[kiwiMark]

Yeah, this I understand, and agree it's looking super hopeful. That's neither official nor an announcement though, was more just asking if I'd missed something that I should check out, or if it's just the news sites being liberal with their buzzwords

[givememyleg]

yeah there has been no official announcement, just word of mouth sources "confirming" this.

[givememyleg]

also we will be updating our news post as we hear more - BREAKING NEWS: PokerStars Buys Full Tilt Poker « Poker Blogs

[bigred]

Hoping people finally get their FTP money but I'm saving my one time for bringing online poker back to 'merica. Does this help at all? Industry stability?

[drmcboy]

F5



F5




F5


@ bigred I think if nothing else it's a great sign because the most obvious reason for them to do this would seem like it would be US good will. Or, maybe they found out they were going to owe XXX in fines anyway from the original bank fraud case and they asked the DOJ if they could use some of that to bail out FTP players.

[bikes]

F5
F5
F5

+1

[daven]

stars buying ftp is not sound good for poker
sounds like gbt got last-minute shafted by the doj

[drmcboy]

it's great for US poker!

and if GBT was going to bail anyway, it has to be better for ROW than losing 200m from the economy.

[kiwiMark]

all the negatives about stars buying FTP that I've seen people raising seem to be speaking from the perspective that FTP is currently up and running in the market

[drmcboy]

yeah exactly. We may never know for sure what happened, maybe the DoJ tanked the deal on purpose, but it seems like a silly thing to be worrying about right now.
from 2+2

Shaun Deeb:

Quote:
"I feel bad making a new thread but dont want this info lost elsewhere but cliffs are included my source I trust a lot.

Anyways the deal is already done by what I am told;

Players will be paid within 90 days
FTP will be open in the US market
Isai will be stepping down from the company

If these statements are true I feel that Isai deserves all our thanks+ business in the future with his company he is bailing out the igaming industry's tarnished reputation"

[kiwiMark]

pretty sick if the US market call is true- have I missed any kind of legislation change or would it really just be the DOJ openly accepting a big-ass one-time payment to turn a blind eye to what they previous condemned?

[Keith]

Could Tapie have thought he was the only deal in town and tried to play hard ball. DOJ then negotiated behind his back

[givememyleg]

no way us market rumor could be true, he must have meant something else.

[boost]

no way us market rumor could be true, he must have meant something else.

maybe he means that for some reason Stars' brand cannot reenter for some reason, yet FTP can when the market opens up. Some sort of loophole and it would explain why stars values FTP so much.

Complete speculation of course, but it doesn't seem like a bad guess with the little bits of info we have.

[kiwiMark]

maybe he means that for some reason Stars' brand cannot reenter for some reason, yet FTP can when the market opens up. Some sort of loophole and it would explain why stars values FTP so much.

Complete speculation of course, but it doesn't seem like a bad guess with the little bits of info we have.

someone on the 2p2 thread posted at some point earlier on that as part of the player repayment process stars signed stuff barring them from the US market, whereas FTP hasn't been through that process.

of course a loooot of stuff has been said by a lot of people in that 2p2 thread, but that fits with your speculation

[drmcboy]

maybe he means that for some reason Stars' brand cannot reenter for some reason, yet FTP can when the market opens up. Some sort of loophole and it would explain why stars values FTP so much.

Complete speculation of course, but it doesn't seem like a bad guess with the little bits of info we have.

yeah I think this or maybe as a part of this new deal stars gets some other sort of "get out of us jail free**" card

** free as in ~750m!

[givememyleg]

3:38 PM ET Update: QuadJacks reports a leaked e-mail sent early on 4/24 from Ray Bitar to all of Full Tilt’s employees stating that PokerStars has agreed to acquire Full Tilt Poker and the deal is true. Full transcript not yet available.

[surviva316]

SneakySteve winning the 2p2 thread btw, lol

[bikes]

PokerStarsBlog.com: News Archives

[bikes]

PokerStars' statement regarding settlement discussions - PokerStarsBlog.com

[givememyleg]

We've had a lot of enquiries and there's lots of speculation on the forums, so I wanted to address the PokerStars chatter. As you know, PokerStars is in settlement discussions with the U.S. Department of Justice. As such settlement discussions are always confidential, we are unable to comment on rumors. As soon as we have information to share publicly we will do so.

from the stars blog

[kiwiMark]

Also related to deeb's US market comment, for those not following 2p2 thread:

Here's my take:

I talked to some people who heard the same thing as Deeb did. Their understanding is as follows: the implication is that FTP will be marketed as a "clean" poker site with all "bad actors" (such as Isai or other people indicted on Black Friday) removed to the US market WHEN/IF regulation/legalization becomes a reality in the US. Meaning them re-opening to the US market is not understood to be an imminent thing, but something which will require future political/legal/legislative action.

Again, my friends said they are implying this based off some vague reports they've heard from insiders privy to information about the deal. It appears no one said anything explicitly.

[bikes]

I hate QJ and everyone associated with them. Esp GOD YOUR VOICE IS ANNOYING MARCO

[fjuanl]

Players will be paid within 90 days
FTP will be open in the US market

[bikes]

The GBT Repayment Plan, Fact vs Fiction | Diamond Flush Poker

[Keith]

has been reading that repayment /theft plan .....seems like bitar/ferguson and lederer inspired Tapie .....just steal the player balances .

[Keith]

so Tapie proposed that he would pay the Rest of the worlds $184m by putting up $16m and then forcing the rest of the world to deposit and rake the remaining $168m.....wow ...just wow no doubt there'd be no rakeback either.

[givememyleg]

The GBT Repayment Plan, Fact vs Fiction | Diamond Flush Poker

lol...... wow thank god gbt fell through

[surviva316]

The GBT Repayment Plan, Fact vs Fiction | Diamond Flush Poker

AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAH.

And that's not even all:

Details regarding the licensing plans, professional players considered as representatives, and additional surprising actions, taken by what was once thought to be the “white knight”, will be forthcoming in the next few days.

Great Scott.

[Penneywize]

yeah agreed GBT plan sounded pretty restrictive / horrible. At most, I would expect or hope that they would gradually unfreeze larger balances, but not release it as though it were some bonus you were entitled to (more or less).

W/E, PS has a monopoly up in this shit I guess.

[Keith]

Don't understand the concerns about a stars monopoly. The situation is no different to the current state of play. Sure some people may come back to FTP to play enough or whatever to withdraw. If they left stars in the first place for lack bonus/rakeback etc I can't see them heading back to ftp for what will inevitably be similar rewards system.

By buying FTP stars in the short term are protecting a lot of their income from players who would have been forced back to tilt to recover their money, and in the long term are possibly gaining an access route back into a legalized US market.

Interesting thing will be people permabanned on stars or tilt who then had a valid account on the other site. Also people who self excluded for gambling reasons on one ofthe sites ., i guess they would have to be banned on the other site as well.

[kiwiMark]

I also do not understand why people think that if stars buys FTP they would make it identical to stars with FULL TILT POKER written on top.

[BooG690]

I also do not understand why people think that if stars buys FTP they would make it identical to stars with FULL TILT POKER written on top.

That'd be such a dumb move by them when they can just basically reopen the Full Tilt software and attract both parties (the people that likes PS more and the people that liked FTP more).

[Keith]

Even if they run two seperate brands it must make sense to run one player pool, tourney schedule etc, bigger tourneys->bigger prizes-> lures in the fish

[d0zer]

Even if they run two seperate brands it must make sense to run one player pool, tourney schedule etc, bigger tourneys->bigger prizes-> lures in the fish

I don't disagree, but I'd be surprised if they were able to and/or motivated enough to re-write the FTP software to use the stars network in time. I imagine they would initially just re-open FTP as-is ASAP to start generating manies on their investment.

[Keith]

Why would they try and adapt the Full tilt software. Just redesign the stars table graphics into Full tilt Graphics. Its no different than what happens on merge, ipoker etc.Noone knows how many of the Full Tilt programmers are still employed .Massive cost saving if they don't have to rehire the programmers , fraud/security, customer support .

Full tilts software is negligible as part of the attraction of the deal to stars and just brings extra costs. For stars the Rush patent and avoiding any litigation over Zoom Poker infringng on that patent must be a much bigger attraction than the Tilt software. Also defending the rush /zoom poker patent and stopping other sites from profiting from it must be an important consideration in stopping some of their competition/protecting their market share.

[drmcboy]

Even if they run two seperate brands it must make sense to run one player pool, tourney schedule etc, bigger tourneys->bigger prizes-> lures in the fish

If they want they can get most of these just by making it really easy to move money between the two sites.

[d0zer]

A lot of people who liked FTP more, liked it because they preferred the software. Skinning stars wouldn't satisfy any of those people, and then there's still the work of translating all of the FTP account data into stars, which is quite likely to be non-trivial.

[kiwiMark]

there never was any rush patent afaik

[kiwiMark]

although I've never really understood how much that matters

[bikes]

<3 full tilt software. I know a lot of grinders and mtt' pros who feel the same way.

[boost]

ya, ftp's software was way better than stars.

[BooG690]

^ And these are the types of players PS can attract by simply not touching anything on the FTP software side.

[boost]

I think they would start off by just relaunching the current FTP software, but within a year they'd merge the softwares/networks. It just doesn't make a ton of sense for them to maintain two development teams, two support teams, etc etc. Esp when there is only an initial benefit, but long run the benefit lies in having the biggest singular network with the biggest guarantees, limits spread, etc.

[boost]

furthermore, everyone seems to be assuming that if they chose to go with one software over the other for both networks that it would be the Stars software.