so what is the range of a 23/3

[Smith]

trying to think of a time i've check raised the river.....nope don't think i have.

Side Note to check raising rivers:
If you ever go for a check raise on the turn, but it gets checked back then go for check raise river instead. Anything villain will call with he will bet on river anyway. (mostly)

[Carroters]

Side Note to check raising rivers:
If you ever go for a check raise on the turn, but it gets checked back then go for check raise river instead. Anything villain will call with he will bet on river anyway. (mostly)

So villain defines his range as weak by checking back the turn and we want to go ahead and give him the chance to check back loads of it on the river aswell when it's so weak that he can hardly ever call a c/r anyway, but can often call a bet?

Although this is a rediculously vague thing to even be talking about, most villains are going to have a way higher turn bluf ffrequency than river bluff frequency with floats/draws etc, so we don't induce a whole load of bluffs by checking rivers when turns check through. Giving weak sd value hands the chance to check back again is pretty awful, especially at micros where betting ranges are way tighter than calling ranges.

You're gonna have to give a better explanation than this before throwing people unjustified groundless advice.

FWIW: I assume you mean we're trying to c/r the turn for value and not as a bluff.

[Smith]

You're gonna have to give a better explanation than this before throwing people unjustified groundless advice.

I see what you mean, and I was just throwing a side note that didn't pertain to this or a specific situation. Just thought I would give some more thoughts about check raising rivers based on OP comment of never doing it. So I'll give a short example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got this from a reputable coach.

My interpretation:
OOP Against a good TAG who bet the flop (cbet), and you decide he will most likely bet the turn, so you get ready for a check raise for value on the turn. If he decides to check back the turn (for pot control) then go for the check raise on the river. Reason being he will most likely bet for thin value on the river or bluff river after hero shows two streets of weakness. He is more likely to bet the river then to call river bet.

The coach actually used the words then you "have to" check raise the river when explaining the concept. Maybe this doesn't hold any water for 5NL.

[Carroters]

I see what you mean, and I was just throwing a side note that didn't pertain to this or a specific situation. Just thought I would give some more thoughts about check raising rivers based on OP comment of never doing it. So I'll give a short example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got this from a reputable coach.

My interpretation:
OOP Against a good TAG who bet the flop (cbet), and you decide he will most likely bet the turn, so you get ready for a check raise for value on the turn. If he decides to check back the turn (for pot control) then go for the check raise on the river. Reason being he will most likely bet for thin value on the river or bluff river after hero shows two streets of weakness. He is more likely to bet the river then to call river bet.

The coach actually used the words then you "have to" check raise the river when explaining the concept.

Playing against "a good reg" on whom you have reads that he has these tendencies, then sure this could apply, but this is very different from your first statement since that referred to "most" situations. People in this forum play micro stakes where good regs are very few and far between, hence betting frquencys are much lower, and thin value rarely exists, so throwing that out as a general statement when it only applys to specifc villain types is a little dangerous to readers.

[daven]

turn is interesting, but seems to have been ignored
river is not even close. You beat 22/66/many 7x/JJ-AA/89, you lose 76/TT/T7.
All hands from both these lists make sense.
count the combos (don't stove it), good practise.