I can only agree with you about pre I am not a very competent player by any means and I'm definitely not bluff raising/ bluff 3 betting often enough. like how does almost never sound. The river on the other hand i thought he would call with more than he would raise with cos he was really passive and gay so i wanted to make sure i got some value, is that dumb. trying to think of a time i've check raised the river.....nope don't think i have. Thank you for the advice.