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spoonitnow
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06-29-2010, 09:44 PM
Post subject: The Basics of Position
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Introduction
Someone asked for an introduction to position. Here it is, short and sweet.
In poker, position refers to the order in which the players act. Acting later in the hand gives you an advantage. Here we're going to look at why that is and some of the more basic ways you can leverage position in my standard example-heavy format. Note that IP means "in position" or acting last, and OOP means "out of position" or not acting last.
On the Existence of the Positional Advantage
Consider the following. In the book The Mathematics of Poker by Bill Chen and Jerrod Ankenman, the authors investigate a number of simplified heads-up poker games. Most (if not all) of these games pit one player out of position against another player who is in position while they both have the same range. In all of these games, the player who is in position has an advantage. I say this first because I want you to realize that even in the simplest forms of poker (like the fixed-limit AKQ games or heads-up no-limit push/fold games), position gives you a sizable advantage. So in a game as complicated as no-limit hold'em, position will give you an advantage as well.
The Basic Advantage: Difference in Information
Suppose you're heads-up on some street of poker and you're in position. When it's your first turn to act on that street, you will know your opponent's first action on that street. When it's your opponent's first turn to act on that street, they will not know your first action. This diffence in information gives you an advantage. This advantage occurs every street that you play in position.
Ending the Street
If it checks to you IP and you check, that ends the betting street. If you're OOP and check, that doesn't end the street. This means that the player IP has more opportunities for things like free card plays with draws, or taking medium-strength hands one more step towards a showdown. This leads to having more options, which means an advantage.
Controlling the Betting: Playing the Worst Hand and the Best Hand
Suppose you're in position heads-up on the river. Your opponent bets, you call, and you lose at showdown. Now suppose you were out of position instead. Sometimes you would bet instead of checking, and your opponent would raise you instead of calling, and sometimes you'd call instead of folding. This means that on average you're going to lose less when you have the worst hand when you're IP.
Suppose you're out of position heads-up on the river. You bet, your opponent calls, and you win at showdown. Now suppose you were in position instead. Sometimes your opponent would bet instead of checking, and you would raise instead of calling, and sometimes your opponent would call instead of folding. This means that on average you're going to win more when you have the best hand when you're IP.
Facing Stronger Ranges: A Pre-Flop Example
We often call pre-flop in position with hands that are behind our opponent's opening range. For example, when 100bb deep, if our opponent opens to 3x with about 5% of hands (roughly {99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo} according to PokerStove), and we call this raise with 76s on the button, we only have about 30% equity. If we were all-in pre-flop, this would be a big mistake. But we're not all-in pre-flop. Now our opponent has to play out of position against us for three streets. The positional advantage and the hand strength advantage are at odds here.
Putting it All Together
Position is one of the three major areas where we can get an advantage. The other two areas are the strength of our range and our playing ability. Of the three, it's the one that's probably the least understood among beginning players, so get to understanding it. Good luck.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Nice post. I feel like so many players think they understand this when they actually don't. But I think position is one of those things that you can "just do" (as in play more hands in later positions) without really understanding why and still benefit. That being said, understanding this concept will help tremendously in having a better grasp of the fundamentals.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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i was really first but i didnt write anything
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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A+
Eat it up little BC nublets and learn to stop sucking total ass at poker.
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FedMoigoCed
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06-30-2010, 12:15 PM
Post subject: Could you help me in my question....
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#5 (permalink)
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High Card
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
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How I can write PM to other users? Thanx
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dranger7070
A+
Eat it up little BC nublets and learn to stop sucking total ass at poker.
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speak for yourself imo 
cool how tests show that position is ALWAYS an advantage. it's pretty vogue (especially in MTT/SnG forums) to say that position stops being an advantage and that it's almost a disadvantage once stacks get shallow enough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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kfaess
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 556
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nh spoon,
should be helpful to many people. I feel like lots of micro stakes players don't consider positional factors when making decisions (and I'm guilty of this as well).
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
speak for yourself imo
cool how tests show that position is ALWAYS an advantage. it's pretty vogue (especially in MTT/SnG forums) to say that position stops being an advantage and that it's almost a disadvantage once stacks get shallow enough. |
Being heads-up in cash situations, sure. But being multi-way in some situations can create certain types of scenarios where the amount of money already in the pot changes things if it's large relative to the stacks. Suppose we have a 9-handed SNG with no ante and the normal 50%/30%/20% payout structure. If everyone has the same stack size, at 10bb stacks, the button has the advantage as seen here. With 5bb stacks, the button also has an advantage as seen here. With 2bb stacks, the button again has an advantage as seen here. Notice how the advantage of the button over the UTG player gets smaller and smaller as stacks get smaller. Now look at this scenario, where we have 2bb stacks but also an ante that's 10% of the big blind. For this hand, UTG has an advantage against the button. However, the button will have the advantage of having to post the blinds last, so it's not as clear-cut.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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