Trump Is Reality TV, Mueller Is The Wire

[boost]

Boost thinks Mueller is going to fuck Trump up.

I actually don't think this. I think it's possible. I think it's fair to assume that is my stance from the OP, but I'm agnostic about whether Trump actually colluded, and I think both collusion and obstruction cases won't be terribly easy to make.

Giving Mueller the comparison to the GOAT tv show stems from both my aesthetic read of his investigation as well as the fact that I think he may be the GOAT for the role he's in. And I don't mean that he's the best pick to bring down the president, but that he is the one person that both sides should be able to trust to do a thorough and even handed job.

If he is exonerated, I can honestly say it will be a tough pill to swallow, but I don't have a choice. I don't have more information that Mueller has/will have. He's as reliable and unbiased a special prosecutor as anyone could have hoped for, and so I defer to his judgement.

[BananaStand]

I actually don't think this. I think it's possible. I think it's fair to assume that is my stance from the OP, but I'm agnostic about whether Trump actually colluded, and I think both collusion and obstruction cases won't be terribly easy to make.

Agnostic?? Really?

Can you say what facts, evidence, or even subjective observations you are using to keep an open mind toward the possibility of collusion?

Giving Mueller the comparison to the GOAT tv show stems from both my aesthetic read of his investigation as well as the fact that I think he may be the GOAT for the role he's in. And I don't mean that he's the best pick to bring down the president, but that he is the one person that both sides should be able to trust to do a thorough and even handed job.

Untrue. The bolded is especially erroneous.

First of all, why are you not agnostic as to Meuller's investigative abilities? Why is his resume given so much credibility by you??

Moving on, out of 17 attorneys on Mueller's team, do you know how many are registered republicans?? Zero! The only suspected republican on the team is Mueller himself. He was a registered repub when he was appointed FBI director in 2001, but his current party affiliation is curiously unknown. 10 of Mueller's attorneys have made donations to democratic campaigns.

We've seen 50,000 texts from Page and Strozk, investigators on Mueller's team, that show an overwhelming bias against Trump.

Where are you getting "even handed"????

If he is exonerated, I can honestly say it will be a tough pill to swallow, but I don't have a choice

Why would that be a tough pill to swallow? Are you saying you WANT to find out that Trump made a deal with Putin? You would actually be glad to find out that the election process was so easily corrupted? You would be unhappy if you were to find out that the election was conducted fairly, honestly, and justly??

Do you really hate Trump so much that you would enjoy seeing America's faith in government catastrophically shaken just to see him resign?

I don't have more information that Mueller has/will have. He's as reliable and unbiased a special prosecutor as anyone could have hoped for, and so I defer to his judgement.

Why do you have this opinion of him? What facts, logic, or even subjective observations are you using to be so non-agnostic about Mueller's biases??

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Why would that be a tough pill to swallow? Are you saying you WANT to find out that Trump made a deal with Putin? You would actually be glad to find out that the election process was so easily corrupted? You would be unhappy if you were to find out that the election was conducted fairly, honestly, and justly??

You're giving me the power to decide which fork in the road our future history will take-- I am not assuming that power when I say one outcome will be harder to accept.

Also, you only focused on the collusion part. There's also the possibility of obstruction, and there is certainly a motive to obstruct even if innocent of the specific crime of collusion.

I could flip the question on you-- I assume it would be a tough pill for you to swallow if Trump was impeached because of Russiagate. Does that mean that you'd prefer Russia to get away with colluding with candidates seeking elected office in our country and/or that a precedent is set so that any future president can obstruct justice if it suits their interests? No, it would be a tough pill for you to swallow because you don't currently think he is guilty and you'd either have to refuse to accept it or have your worldview shaken the fuck up.

[BananaStand]

There's also the possibility of obstruction

Obstruction requires intent.

If Trump is innocent, and was never trying to cover up a crime, then you're a little thin on motive.

Furthermore.....you'll never prove intent.

Do you really think there's a tweet or a document, or a witness that proves Trump was completely oblivious to the bad job Comey was doing, the fact that public's confidence in Comey was dog crap, and the documented recommendations of a notably non-partisan Assistant Attorney General....and that he ONLY did it to try and stop the Russia investigation....even though even a kindergartener knows that firing Comey wouldn't actually stop the investigation. Jeeeeezus.

[BananaStand]

I could flip the question on you-- I assume it would be a tough pill for you to swallow if Trump was impeached because of Russiagate. Does that mean that you'd prefer Russia to get away with colluding with candidates seeking elected office in our country and/or that a precedent is set so that any future president can obstruct justice if it suits their interests?

That's such a loaded question.

And that's not a good "flip". The two are not analogous.

You're presenting two options A) Trump is guilty and punished or B) Trump is guilty and not punished.

I'm presenting two options A) Trump is guilty and punished or B) Trump is not guilty and everyone is reassured that despite their best efforts a foreign power did not affect the outcome of the election.

see the difference?