Why do we believe in math?

[JKDS]

I feel like I chose the wrong words to describe my thought.

When I say people have trouble understanding and conveying math, I don't fault math and I don't mean that math can't do it. I mean that people in general don't understand the definitions, and suck at describing things with math. If you've ever tried to explain something mathematical to another person, you've probably experienced the issue.

There are many who can competently do this though. And understand it. Those people exist for words too, and when they speak it's beautiful

[Savy]

I feel like I chose the wrong words to describe my thought.

When I say people have trouble understanding and conveying math, I don't fault math and I don't mean that math can't do it. I mean that people in general don't understand the definitions, and suck at describing things with math. If you've ever tried to explain something mathematical to another person, you've probably experienced the issue.

There are many who can competently do this though. And understand it. Those people exist for words too, and when they speak it's beautiful

No because with maths they are either right or wrong. With language they can take variable meanings from a phrase or more. There is a school of thought that what the artists mean is unimportant compared to what the critic takes from it. They are open to interpretation, some of my favourite quotes I know for a fact I don't take them as the artist means them, that doesn't mean that what I took from it is wrong. In Maths that is 100% not the case.

[JKDS]

No because with maths they are either right or wrong. With language they can take variable meanings from a phrase or more. There is a school of thought that what the artists mean is unimportant compared to what the critic takes from it. They are open to interpretation, some of my favourite quotes I know for a fact I don't take them as the artist means them, that doesn't mean that what I took from it is wrong. In Maths that is 100% not the case.

That just means the phrase wasnt as defined as you'd have liked. If a phrase has more than one meaning, it means either more than one meaning exists by definition...or it means someone failed in accurately conveying or understanding the idea.

How is "the set of all real numbers" any better than "fork"? Do you agree that my sofa would not qualify as a fork?

[Savy]

That just means the phrase wasnt as defined as you'd have liked. If a phrase has more than one meaning, it means either more than one meaning exists by definition...or it means someone failed in accurately conveying or understanding the idea.

How is "the set of all real numbers" any better than "fork"? Do you agree that my sofa would not qualify as a fork?

No it means it wasn't defined. I have no problem with stuff being defined in multiple ways either as long as it is consistent. Not accurately conveying something means it isn't a definition. You can misdefine things but this is exactly that a mistake.

Based on your definitions I see no reason to believe your sofa isn't a fork.

[JKDS]

No it means it wasn't defined. I have no problem with stuff being defined in multiple ways either as long as it is consistent. Not accurately conveying something means it isn't a definition. You can misdefine things but this is exactly that a mistake.

Based on your definitions I see no reason to believe your sofa isn't a fork.

We're at an understanding roadblock, but I think we're on the same page. I'll go to bed with this:

Unlike math, most people DONT agree on the definitions of words. Love means something different to me than to you. Part of this disagreement is because the definitions suck, or we rely on different definitions to begin with. Another part is that people, as a whole, suck at describing things (because of laziness, poor vocabulary, or what have you). But this doesn't mean words aren't like math, it means we have an unrefined and shitty language.

[Savy]

We're at an understanding roadblock, but I think we're on the same page. I'll go to bed with this:

Unlike math, most people DONT agree on the definitions of words. Love means something different to me than to you. Part of this disagreement is because the definitions suck, or we rely on different definitions to begin with. Another part is that people, as a whole, suck at describing things (because of laziness, poor vocabulary, or what have you). But this doesn't mean words aren't like math, it means we have an unrefined and shitty language.

You're saying language could become a thing like maths where everything is defined etc. Yeah maybe it could. I personally don't think that's better than what we have now, or maybe I would and I just can't see it reaching that point which is fair. On a level language tries to convey shit that is much more complicated than maths but that's a different point I suppose.

Language is also ever evolving in a way I don't think maths possibly could. I think this is a great thing about language how words can evolve over time to the point where words can mean what they mean and the exact opposite at the same time.

It's important to realise that it isn't just people don't agree on a definition of a word like love but there is no actual definition. Dictionaries are a great attempt at this but fall so short compared to mathematical definitions it's just bollocks.

I also want to point out that language is fucking great at what it does. I think humans deserve a great pat on the back at the complexities of language and hwo well they understand them based on context.

[a500lbgorilla]

I feel like I chose the wrong words to describe my thought.

When I say people have trouble understanding and conveying math, I don't fault math and I don't mean that math can't do it. I mean that people in general don't understand the definitions, and suck at describing things with math. If you've ever tried to explain something mathematical to another person, you've probably experienced the issue.

There are many who can competently do this though. And understand it. Those people exist for words too, and when they speak it's beautiful

Yeah, there are understandings that are wordless. And then we have to go through all the trouble of getting those understandings across to someone else.

Messy business. People could argue over the communicae for centuries. Oh right, they do, and they're called lawyers.