**** Elections thread *****

[BananaStand]

.... when he's supposed to be in a security briefing....

I didn't catch that bit of information in the video you linked. Fake news?

I see a man, using his personal account to support for a family member with a tweet that took maybe 3 seconds to compose and send. I also see a vicious media spend 3 minutes calling it a "slam", advertising for the #grabyourwallet campaign, and assuring us that even though it was in and out of Trump's mind in a flash, we should not expect this to end anytime soon. Why not? Who's keeping it going??

[Poopadoop]

I didn't catch that bit of information in the video you linked. Fake news?

That information wasn't included in the video I linked, which explains why you didn't see it. The security briefing started at 10.30, according to the WH. Trump tweeted around 10.50. Either that was the shortest briefing ever or he didn't go or he left early cause he's like smart and doesn't need to get intel.

I see a man, using his personal account to support for a family member with a tweet that took maybe 3 seconds to compose and send. I also see a vicious media spend 3 minutes calling it a "slam", advertising for the #grabyourwallet campaign, and assuring us that even though it was in and out of Trump's mind in a flash, we should not expect this to end anytime soon. Why not? Who's keeping it going??

Of course you do.

The rest of us see a man who can't stop being a businessman even when he's the president.

Also, if I'm in a meeting (or skip a meeting) at work and tweet about some personal business interest of mine not related to my job, I get in shit. But if Trump does it and gets called on it, you get outraged. Funny that.

[BananaStand]

That information wasn't included in the video I linked, which explains why you didn't see it. The security briefing started at 10.30, according to the WH. Trump tweeted around 10.50.

So you really have no idea what else was going on when he tweeted. You're just inferring. But before you were challenged, you presented the inference that Trump was prioritizing a tweet above national security as a fact. It was also clear that contributed significantly to your opinion.

If you were a journalist, and you presented your inference as fact, lots of people would read it and believe you. It would contribute significantly to their opinion of events. That's not only dishonest, it's dangerous! Are you starting to see why Trump MUST defend himself against the media? Do you get now why he hits back every time they hit him?

Either that was the shortest briefing ever

It could have been. Maybe they sat him down and said "Bad guys are coming, judges won't let you stop them. End of briefing"

or he didn't go

Also a possibility. He's not been shy about his frustration with being told repeat information.

or he left early cause he's like smart and doesn't need to get intel.

Again, totally possible. Or, maybe they took a coffee break. Or maybe the guy with the powerpoint slides was having technical difficulties that stopped the meeting for a few minutes.

Your implication that he was doing something he wasn't supposed to do when he should have been doing something else is fake news.

The rest of us see a man who can't stop being a businessman even when he's the president.

.
Jesus man, we're not talking about a spat with Mark Cuban or something. Ivanka is his daughter, and his tweet was expressing frustration at what he perceived to be unfair treatment. Is he supposed to stop being a father when he's president? Sheesh.

Also, if I'm in a meeting (or skip a meeting) at work and tweet about some personal business interest of mine not related to my job, I get in shit.

Sucks for you. When you run the company, you can dictate your own schedule.

But if Trump does it and gets called on it, you get outraged. Funny that.

I'm not outraged. But if you want to see outrage, try telling your own boss how he should be spending his time. Next time you see him sending a text, ask "is that business related?" See how he reacts.

I do think it's funny that you equate this to him "doing business" or this tweet is about "some personal business". Jesus, can you imagine if you saw the guy's tax returns and saw that he owned some stock in Macy's. Foil hats around the world would all spontaneously combust!!

[Poopadoop]

Being president isn't the same as owning a company. He doesn't own the country and can't just do wtf he wants. He is an employee of the people. Big difference there; stop talking shit.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the notion that people want their president to focus on being president and not trash talking some company for canceling his daughter's line of clothing, or more generally just tweeting whatever random shit comes into his head. Surely he has more important things to do.

And just for fun let's assume one of your scenarios is true- the meeting ended early or Trump decided he's like a smart person and doesn't need to go the meetings. So, what would a GOOD president do then? Would he maybe pick up the phone and talk to someone somewhere in gov't about some issue that's important? Or would he tweet about whatever happens to be on his mind, like his hot daughter's clothing line, or maybe SNL.

And what about that tweet? You said it's totally unfair that people assume he's going to use his office to promote his and his family's businesses just because he can. But what is that tweet doing if not that? And now you're crying 'cause the media and his opponents report and comment on this bad behavior? At the very least you have to agree that it's unbecoming of a president to be doing that. And yet he does it again and again. Shouldn't that bother people? Should they not be concerned that the world is seeing their leader as a narcissistic retard, and it's hurting their image as a country? I would be.

You continually act shocked that people set out reasonable criticisms of Trump and his administration, and call him out on his bad behavior. If that's genuine amazement on your part and not just trolling, then I really feel sorry for you because I think you are in for four years of being completely confused about how so many people see him.

[BananaStand]

And what about that tweet? You said it's totally unfair that people assume he's going to use his office to promote his and his family's businesses just because he can. But what is that tweet doing if not that?

He's not 'promoting' anything. He's expressing a feeling of frustration that he has as a human being. He's not using his office. The tweet came from his personal account.

That's WAY different than KAC, in her capacity as a spokesperson, going on TV and saying "it's a great brand, I own some myself". Those statements are completely offsides. She knows that. She fucked up. People make mistakes. She apologized. From what I read, she was "counseled", which I gather is a nice way of saying 'reprimanded and retrained'. Ok then. She did something bad, she was held accountable, measures were taken, problems were remedied, the system worked.

I would challenge you to think critically on the difference between that, and playing 'gotchya'. Because there is an awful lot of the latter going around and it's poisonous to substantive discourse.

And now you're crying 'cause the media and his opponents report and comment on this bad behavior?

First of all, I'm not 'crying'. But I do have a problem with a 3 minute report on a 3 second tweet where the other 2:57 is spent blowing it out of proportion, and having a bunch of liberal nobodies fear monger about how scary and dangerous this is. Beyond that, there are even people stating factually that Trump shirked his presidential duty to make time for this, a paranoid inference wholly unsupported by facts. And at the end of that 3 minutes, we were....I guess the word is "warned"......that there's no end to this in sight.

I have no problem with the media "reporting or commenting" on anything the president does. But this was a hatchet job, a smear. Surely you see that.

At the very least you have to agree that it's unbecoming of a president to be doing that. And yet he does it again and again. Shouldn't that bother people? Should they not be concerned that the world is seeing their leader as a narcissistic retard, and it's hurting their image as a country? I would be.

I think it's unbecoming for a president to have neon hair, dress like a cartoon character, and be married to a woman half his age. So what? It's concerning, sure. But the time to express that concern was the election. I take issue with people being outraged over Trump doing things that are already known about him, and totally consistent with his character. He is who he is. And he got elected president. Work with it.

You continually act shocked that people set out reasonable criticisms of Trump and his administration, and call him out on his bad behavior. If that's genuine amazement on your part and not just trolling, then I really feel sorry for you because I think you are in for four years of being completely confused about how so many people see him.

It's not a reasonable criticism. Let's just focus on you for a minute. Your objection stemmed from the idea that he was supplanting a national security briefing with twitter-time, when in fact, that is something you imagined. That's NOT a reasonable criticism.

Again, I challenge you to think critically about how you might differentiate between reasonable criticism, and a petty game of "gotchya".

[Poopadoop]

He's not 'promoting' anything. He's expressing a feeling of frustration that he has as a human being. He's not using his office.

Just mentioning it is promoting it. You don't need to be a marketing major to understand that.

The tweet came from his personal account.

Well that's the account he uses, so...everything he says on there is ok now? If he tweets 'all jews must die', we should go, 'oh it's ok just his personal account, nothing official'.

That's WAY different than KAC, in her capacity as a spokesperson, going on TV and saying "it's a great brand, I own some myself". Those statements are completely offsides. She knows that. She fucked up. People make mistakes. She apologized. From what I read, she was "counseled", which I gather is a nice way of saying 'reprimanded and retrained'. Ok then. She did something bad, she was held accountable, measures were taken, problems were remedied, the system worked.

Rumor has it there's a lot of people in the WH trying to 'retrain' Trump but he doesn't take to it. Sad.

I would challenge you to think critically on the difference between that, and playing 'gotchya'. Because there is an awful lot of the latter going around and it's poisonous to substantive discourse.

There may be some of that, but there's just as much of denying anything he does wrong is actually wrong.

I do have a problem with a 3 minute report on a 3 second tweet where the other 2:57 is spent blowing it out of proportion, and having a bunch of liberal nobodies fear monger about how scary and dangerous this is. Beyond that, there are even people stating factually that Trump shirked his presidential duty to make time for this, a paranoid inference wholly unsupported by facts. And at the end of that 3 minutes, we were....I guess the word is "warned"......that there's no end to this in sight.

It's not exactly paranoid to assume Trump shirks his duty when it's on record that he's done the same thing already numerous times (or at the very least decided for himself what is or isn't his 'duty' - like going to security briefings or using his time to tweet stupid shit).

But the time to express that concern was the election. I take issue with people being outraged over Trump doing things that are already known about him, and totally consistent with his character. He is who he is. And he got elected president. Work with it.

So you just accept all the bullshit because he won the election? On what planet does that work? I guess then if Trump shoots someone on 5th avenue we should accept it 'cause people had their chance to stop him by not electing him. Get. Fucking. Real.

It's not a reasonable criticism. Let's just focus on you for a minute. Your objection stemmed from the idea that he was supplanting a national security briefing with twitter-time, when in fact, that is something you imagined. That's NOT a reasonable criticism.

It's not unreasonable to think he left or zoned out of the security meeting and, instead of doing something useful with that time, chose to use it to promote his daughter's business. There's nothing imagined about it, as much as you'd like to put your Spinner Spicer take on it.

Again, I challenge you to think critically about how you might differentiate between reasonable criticism, and a petty game of "gotchya".

A petty game of 'gotchya' would be pointing out that 63% is not the same as 2/3, then ... you know the rest.

Do I believe the media is hypersensitive to finding fault with Trump? Yes. Do I believe they often overblow things? Yes. But that's the media, they're not objective and never have been.

Do I think that means it's ok for Trump to promote his daughter's clothing line when he could be doing something for the country instead, like maybe be in a security briefing that was scheduled for the same time, or maybe doing God knows how many other things need doing by the president? Nope.

[BananaStand]

Just mentioning it is promoting it. You don't need to be a marketing major to understand that.

No, it's not the same thing. Maybe you should ask a marketing major. He didn't even mention her brand or her business. He said "my daughter has been treated unfairly by nordstroms". Then he said something nice, personally, about his daughter. Then he described the whole situation as "terrible".

That's a completely different animal than what Kellyanne did. SURELY you see the difference.

Well that's the account he uses, so...everything he says on there is ok now? If he tweets 'all jews must die', we should go, 'oh it's ok just his personal account, nothing official'.

He uses both accounts. If he says something personal, about someone he knows personally, on his personal account, that's not him "using his office to promote" something. And statements like you suggested would be concerning. But he's said nothing on that level. You're arguing against your own absurd hypothesis. Have fun, I'm not getting involved with that.

Rumor has it there's a lot of people in the WH trying to 'retrain' Trump but he doesn't take to it. Sad.

You're not getting it. It's only sad to people like you, who think EVERYTHING trump does is sad. The rest of us, already know he's a bombastic blowhard. We knew that before he was elected. If you expected him to change, that's dumb, and that's on you!

There may be some of that, but there's just as much of denying anything he does wrong is actually wrong.

No, you just perceive there to be 'just as much' because you're constantly putting yourself on the side of "trump is wrong". You're in the minority there. Polls show majorities and pluralities of Americans agreeing with Trump's policies. He's clearly and demonstrably getting alot more right than he is wrong. So there's no way that entire networks can run non-stop negative coverage unless they're full of shit.

It's not exactly paranoid to assume Trump shirks his duty when it's on record that he's done the same thing already numerous times (or at the very least decided for himself what is or isn't his 'duty' - like going to security briefings or using his time to tweet stupid shit).

It's really at the president's discretion what meetings he takes and when. Criticizing that is just you looking for a fight.

So you just accept all the bullshit because he won the election? On what planet does that work? I guess then if Trump shoots someone on 5th avenue we should accept it 'cause people had their chance to stop him by not electing him. Get. Fucking. Real.

No, I accept some of the bullshit. Specifically the bullshit that was there before he won the Election. You have to be trolling here, because your'e not even in the same galaxy as my point. If trump actually murdered someone, that would be a new character trait that we can use to develop new judgments about. He wasn't a murderer before the election.

Making bombastic statements and being a twitter troll are not new. He's been doing that forever. If it mattered, he would not have been elected. He got elected, that means it doesn't matter. Or at least, doesn't matter to enough people to make a difference. If you find yourself in that minority, that's unfortunate for you. You're free to be unhappy about it, but I would remind you of the analogy about peeing your pants. It feels good, but you look foolish.

It's not unreasonable to think he left or zoned out of the security meeting and, instead of doing something useful with that time, chose to use it to promote his daughter's business. There's nothing imagined about it, as much as you'd like to put your Spinner Spicer take on it.

It's not unreasonable to think that he tweeted it during a scheduled break in the meeting, during which he went to the can to pinch a loaf.

What IS unreasonable is assuming you're better at micro-managing the President's schedule than he, or anyone in the white-house, is.

A petty game of 'gotchya' would be pointing out that 63% is not the same as 2/3, then ... you know the rest.

That's not what I was doing. You're being a dick.

Do I believe the media is hypersensitive to finding fault with Trump? Yes. Do I believe they often overblow things? Yes. But that's the media, they're not objective and never have been.

And you are objective?

Do I think that means it's ok for Trump to promote his daughter's clothing line when he could be doing something for the country instead, like maybe be in a security briefing that was scheduled for the same time, or maybe doing God knows how many other things need doing by the president? Nope.

If he starts his day at 06:30 and ends it at 20:30 without using twitter, or starts his day at 06:30 and ends it at 20:32 while using twitter for two minutes during the day, what's the fucking difference?

Your assumption that his tweets supplant more pressing matters is imagined, demonstrably false, and petty.