Russians vs. Americans: A Werewolf Game for October 2015

[BankItDrew]

That was hella fun. Getting mod punished was hilarious. A wolf dying was phenomenal.

WP baudib WP

[baudib]

Vote Count

bigred 1 (wufwug)
aubrey 1 (kami)

Not voting: Everyone else

[Luco]

both ong & bid in my villager camp, both openly defending rilla d1. damn

[Luco]

This ITA will be 58 minutes longer than I need it to be

*59

[OngBonga]

I hate to say it but I kinda feel drew wouldn't recklessly break a rule that has a punishment if he's a wolf with a power. He could just ask baudib in the den what the punishment would be. He would surely fear RB.

I can't imagine baudib is bad enough to slap a role/alignment indicative punishment on a wolf or special. I think I'm going to assume that RB was the default punsihment, regardless of role.

[OngBonga]

luco, while I'm happy for you to not be glaring at me, how does openly defending a power role wolf on d1 qualify me for village points?

[BankItDrew]

luco, while I'm happy for you to not be glaring at me, how does openly defending a power role wolf on d1 qualify me for village points?

Luco is on a different level

[Luco]

luco, while I'm happy for you to not be glaring at me, how does openly defending a power role wolf on d1 qualify me for village points?

It doesn't. I could have worded that better

[TheBrokenATM]

Wow a wolf died finally yay.
Sorry boys. I'll be here a bit today.
What I miss?

[ProbablynotAWolff]

BankItDrew will be role blocked until D3 for firing multiple shots.

mod spewed villa PR?

[BankItDrew]

mod spewed villa PR?

Yup. I'm a villager with a PR. Guess which one.

[MadMojoMonkey]

@Luco: I keep thinking of the teflon comment you made about BID a couple of games back in the mod thread. Something like, "BID does all kinds of wolfy stuff, but nothing sticks to him. It's like he's made of Teflon." (Note BID was a wolf.)

I keep wanting to ask you if you're getting the exact same vibe from him, because I can't help but thinking that I am.

As far as ong goes, He started out like a pure-bred villager, but as soon as he engaged BID, his tone and hunting absolutely changed.

BID has an amazing history of soul-reading ong's tone on early D1, that much is not in question. I'm on the fence about ong, so I'm tempted to believe BID a little bit. However, BID has revealed only misdirection when it comes to his actual read, despite months of asking him to 'splain hisself. I don't understand it, so I don't vote based on it.

QED

If BID wants to cry that I don't ever vote with him when he says ong is a wolf, then BID needs to teach me to agree with him so I can see what he sees.

***
As for my own reads on ong... I think this is in his range to wolf like this, but it's not his standard, "my village game is so meta that you can't ever point to a thing I do as wolfy." thing.

His whole, "I'm not that good of a wolf." schtick is BS. Ong has had some amazing wolf runs. He badgered me into suicide one game (my bad, Hoopy and BID deserved a better teammate than me). He has an ego about his WW skills. The notion that he's not as good as Gator is like, "say something obvious, ong"... Gator's wolf rep is huge. He almost convinced me he was God in that World War Werewolf game... and JKDS was maybe the one who definitively saw through that fake claim.

Taking these together with my read that his D1 went downhill, I can safely say that ong has a lot of pick-up to accomplish, 'cause I don't think we can trust him at end-game with this baggage.

[BankItDrew]

When reading ong, I imagine myself at his keyboard. I imagine that I'm a wolf and ask myself if I would type like the way he is (during any one particular game) as a wolf.

I read the same post twice, this time in the mindset of a villager.

I understand that everyone probably does this or thinks they do this all the time. What makes my read on ong accurate is that I've put more effort into me reading him than me reading anyone else. For some reason or another, I can do it pretty effectively.

With practice on ong, you'll start to notice slight but noticeable changes.

[BankItDrew]

If I were to give you an example of what I'm talking about, it would probably be fence-sitting related, when I think he's a wolf.

But if you want to have a high success rate at soulreading someone, you gotta do it yourself, repeatedly.

[SuperMonkeyFace]

I'm pleasantly surprised at the lack of posts with my name in it :thumb: just skimmed the ita session, good job!

On my way home from work. Will be firing at the 6pn session

[Luco]

I can't imagine baudib is bad enough to slap a role/alignment indicative punishment on a wolf or special. I think I'm going to assume that RB was the default punsihment, regardless of role.

Yeah this

[a500lbgorilla]

******************************DEAD**************** ***********

******************************DEAD**************** ***********

[Beck Novo]

So let me explain myself again just in case. We will never shoot or lynch BID today. Why?

Because rilla is dead and he was the Wolves' Poisoner, so if BID is the Backup Poisoner then he is now the Primary Poisoner for the wolves. And if this is the case, then the wolves will be unable to poison someone tonight. Which means that only one player will be poisoned tonight. But if two people are poisoned tonight, then BID is not the Wolves' Poisoner because he would not have been able to poison another player, as he was roleblocked.

tl;dr

If only one player is poisoned tomorrow, BID is a wolf. If two players are poisoned tomorrow, BID is a villager (and likely who he says he is).

[Beck Novo]

I'm pleasantly surprised at the lack of posts with my name in it :thumb: just skimmed the ita session, good job!

On my way home from work. Will be firing at the 6pn session

Before you do, we'll need a list of reads from you.

[Luco]

Hope I get some credit even though my SHAT failed

We take an equal share imo

[Beck Novo]

Luco, who should we shoot next? I have thoughts but I'm just looking to make some chit chat, I'm bored in the library and am furthering my career as a professional procrastinator.

[gabe]

pretty sweet bagging rilla there


ong saying he was going to kill bid (who has claimed a role) is crazy. it just shouldnt happen without a counterclaim. BUT i think its even too spewy for ong to do as a wolf. i cant believe i said that because nothing is too spewy for ong in any situation.

anyway i believe that ong really believes BID is lying, which is worth something. furthermore, BID trying to shoot ong makes little sense if BID is the village backup poisoner. ever since his claim, BID has acted like he doesnt give a fuck about anything. the "terrible answers" i quoted a few pages ago and now hes not even trying. i think ong has made a terrific read on BID and we should do something about it


i think the healer should definitely NOT save kami, and consider saving SIU. personally i think they can both die. we have a v v strong pack of villagers so we should be able to solve the game without those wildcard players

[gabe]

i'd like to shoot boog when the time comes

i was chewing some cheeba last night and started surfing old WW threads. one of the games, i didnt see boog was a wolf because he never posted in the first half of the game. village gabe died and the wolves won. boog was layin in the cut. never again

[wufwugy]

And I disagree with this. Given bigred's meta as lolcat/low hanging fruit, his activity level and contribution so far feel completely unnecessary when he could have easily slanked and trolled D1

Frankly anyone who is shading bigred purely for contributing is either a wolf or on the wrong level.

for years i have thought that the day bigred gets wolf will be the day that he participates instead of just lolcats

[gabe]

for years i have thought that the day bigred gets wolf will be the day that he participates instead of just lolcats

ok but i dont think we can use this as evidence

i think the bigred situation will take care of itself. we don't need to reach right now... we just need to play straight up and we will win

[wufwugy]

So you won't shoot anyone on Gizmo's wagon? And how can you conclude so easily that BR is the most likely to be a wolf on Gizmo's wagon? Almost everyone said BR is a wolf for not contributing and now he's a wolf for contributing? That's a serious stretch. I would also like you to explain how and at what point Gizmo's wagon was shady. Do you honestly believe that BR was the wolf who shifted the lynch?

i put it up fast. after 12 hours of school. one too many negatives.

nobody wanted to kill bigred for being a wolf. we wanted to kill him for being a liability. this is pretty standard ftr d1 stuff, especially when im involved.

gizmo wagon is shady because about a million people landed on him within two seconds

[wufwugy]

btw im doing my catchup differnetly this time. posting responses as i see them. im not interested in just reading the thread for an hour n a half before posting like the last several catchups

[wufwugy]

I assumed wuf got his nots in a muddle.

my what?

[Luco]

Luco, who should we shoot next? I have thoughts but I'm just looking to make some chit chat, I'm bored in the library and am furthering my career as a professional procrastinator.

Aubrey

Super high information lynch combined with calling rilla 'weird' (more than once I think? ) which just strikes me wrong

[wufwugy]

im with ong in really wanting to find a way to kill bid.

imagine if he's the wolf poisoner, he can claim backup v poisoner and live forever with no sweat since the v cant lynch him and the wolves reasonably have no reason to nom the backup poisoner

[Beck Novo]

Aubrey

Super high information lynch combined with calling rilla 'weird' (more than once I think? ) which just strikes me wrong

Agreed.

[wufwugy]

eh beck is right. unlikely wolf

[Beck Novo]

im with ong in really wanting to find a way to kill bid.

imagine if he's the wolf poisoner, he can claim backup v poisoner and live forever with no sweat since the v cant lynch him and the wolves reasonably have no reason to nom the backup poisoner

Read my #1368, it will explain why BID won't die today.

[Beck Novo]

Wuf, I know you're opposed to shooting at Aubrey.

Give me three names, in order, of players that we should shoot at next?

[wufwugy]

I also still need two to three village reads from you, Wuf.

im typically very sparse on these. i have a history of hard defending wolves, and im not convinced that it's the best idea for the wolves to know who the villagers think are likely/most-valuable villagers

i do inevitably come around to it tho, just try to avoid it early on

[gabe]

So let me explain myself again just in case. We will never shoot or lynch BID today. Why?

Because rilla is dead and he was the Wolves' Poisoner, so if BID is the Backup Poisoner then he is now the Primary Poisoner for the wolves. And if this is the case, then the wolves will be unable to poison someone tonight. Which means that only one player will be poisoned tonight. But if two people are poisoned tonight, then BID is not the Wolves' Poisoner because he would not have been able to poison another player, as he was roleblocked.

tl;dr

If only one player is poisoned tomorrow, BID is a wolf. If two players are poisoned tomorrow, BID is a villager (and likely who he says he is).

right but he could still be a wolf if two people get poisoned tonight. he's not definitely a backup poisoner on wolves if he fakeclaimed

[wufwugy]

What are your thoughts on shooting Wuf?

Right now, I suggest that we shoot rilla, then Aubrey/Wuf, then JKDS.

I am fine with a wuf shot

i'm going to reread wuf/jkds/rilla this morning though and will update if my feelings change

have you poggers noticed that your wolfy targets are almost exlcusively people you havne't played with? it's annoying. so far i can only recall one or two bolds on a pogger from another pogger. scrutinize all

[gabe]

luco i agree with the "rilla is weird" read and aubrey mentioned boog in that same breath! more suspicion

[baudib]

Spoiler: Show

chewing some cheeba

[gabe]

crazy idea alert

hifi was the first person to shoot rilla and did it ASAP

FTR peeps know that rilla does not shine as a wolf like he does as a villager. his participation was lacking too

i can imagine in the den, rilla agreeing to take a bullet to give HIFI maximum cover. i do not think hifi should be included in the "100% village" camp like luco, ong, beck, me, etc

[gabe]

rilla could be fine with that plan. put him out of his wolf misery and give extreme cover to hifi. i mean there are 5 wolves so it wouldnt be that risky

thoughts?

[gabe]

if anyone, wuf you can see that going down?

im almost ready to shoot hifi

[gabe]

God dammit

also this post is certainly in hifi's wolfing range after her rilla shot gets stuffed

[wufwugy]

I find it hard to let go of what I perceive to be wolf pov slips.

I read aubrey's first post and I see someone who is making strong assumptions about kami being a villager.

I see her second post trying to brush that slip off.

Her third post is a vote for kami, who was her hard town read.

You think she's a villager because she asked if mojo is called tom.

JKDS, you're a better villager than this.

this is a little better of a case for aubrey.

my read on her is exclusively that when she's vil she will play more intuitively than when she's a wolf. as a wolf she will be of mind to not sound illogical. as a vil, that's not her primary concern. she's right-brained, meaning analyzing players is like music to her mind, not math.

that said, it is possible that she could just be wacky as either role. depends on how much weed or how tired or how focused on the game she is and stuff

[Beck Novo]

im typically very sparse on these. i have a history of hard defending wolves, and im not convinced that it's the best idea for the wolves to know who the villagers think are likely/most-valuable villagers

i do inevitably come around to it tho, just try to avoid it early on

Wait, what? Is this a legitimate reason to not provide your opinion?

The wolves are wolves, they know who the villagers are and if they have half of a brain they can tell who the valuable villagers are. Why would you withhold this information out of fear of tipping off an already informed party?

Wuf, what the fuck.

[BooG690]

I suggested I shoot HiFi during ITA. Met with resistance by Beck and supported by nobody. I still like a HiFi shot if other villagers agree it's a good idea.

[Beck Novo]

right but he could still be a wolf if two people get poisoned tonight. he's not definitely a backup poisoner on wolves if he fakeclaimed

True. But I can't see him fake claiming here as a wolf. But again, you're right, it's always a possibility.

[gabe]

aubrey / boog / hifi so suspicious tho

Spoiler: Show

chewin

Spoiler: Show

cheebin

[Luco]

crazy idea alert

hifi was the first person to shoot rilla and did it ASAP

FTR peeps know that rilla does not shine as a wolf like he does as a villager. his participation was lacking too

i can imagine in the den, rilla agreeing to take a bullet to give HIFI maximum cover. i do not think hifi should be included in the "100% village" camp like luco, ong, beck, me, etc

Why doesnt this same logic apply to me?

[wufwugy]

well damn with rilla fliping poisoner bid is more likely telling the truth.

hey bankitdrew, if you're a villager, it isn't all your talking that got you in trouble and it's not a lack of respect. these days you get at least 3x as much respect as some of us do. it's just this game you said some headscratchy things. people have to notice those

[gabe]

Why doesnt this same logic apply to me?

because i thought you were a villager before hand and i was suspicious of hifi

also because hifi did this in the very first possible second. she wanted to make sure she got credit

if a wolf tried to ITA rilla, its 1000x more likely its hifi instead of you

[Beck Novo]

have you poggers noticed that your wolfy targets are almost exlcusively people you havne't played with? it's annoying. so far i can only recall one or two bolds on a pogger from another pogger. scrutinize all

Maybe there is some minor confirmation bias but I'm also better at reading their play, as you are reading FTR's members. That's why we're hashing this out now so we make the best decisions possible. I promise, though, that if you feel this way it isn't intentional.

[Beck Novo]

if anyone, wuf you can see that going down?

im almost ready to shoot hifi

I can appreciate the tinfoil theory, but HiFi is a villager. Based on my read of her early on and her play so far, I'm confident that's she's a villager. Please do not shoot her.

[wufwugy]

batman is clear from the rilla spew

how is this again?

[wufwugy]

JKDS, why dont you quote the parts where he is pushing wuf?

if those are the only ones he missed in total, it could be meaningful

[wufwugy]

btw no way i can be a wolf here since rilla sucked so hard. i woudl have ripped deeply into him. he is incredibly wrong about his incorrigible belief that he is a bad wolf. the dude could very very very easily be a killer wolf.

so if im a wolf i would have either forced him to do that or punished him with bussing

[BooG690]

have you poggers noticed that your wolfy targets are almost exlcusively people you havne't played with? it's annoying. so far i can only recall one or two bolds on a pogger from another pogger. scrutinize all

I personally feel Beck has blinders on with regard to HiFi. BATM, HiFi and SIU all met with resistance when I mentioned shooting them. I won't be listening to them as much at 6pm.

[wufwugy]

Rilla made a few posts defending kami too. "Shes noise at this point" "where that read [kami wolf] come from". Poisoned, so dont care, but I feel really good about her dying.

this.

since we know that rilla has made <-infinity improvements to his wolf game, we know that he thinks about wolfing the same way as he used to. remember what he was so pissed about in the game he was with ong? ong attacking him. he adamantly thought it was bad to hurt other wolves, or at least some variation of that idea.

so he could easily defend a fellow wolf like this

[wufwugy]

BankItDrew will be role blocked until D3 for firing multiple shots.

pretty sure "baudib" is short for "hardass siberian grandmother mod"

[wufwugy]

I hate to say it but I kinda feel drew wouldn't recklessly break a rule that has a punishment if he's a wolf with a power. He could just ask baudib in the den what the punishment would be. He would surely fear RB.

i think i agree. still, it's bid, the guy who when he comes to a forked road where he can turn right or turn left, jumps in the bushes and barks at people who walk by.

[BankItDrew]

LOLOLOLOL

BARK BARK BARK

[BankItDrew]

There is def a wolf in:

hi5
kami
gabe

[wufwugy]

@Luco: I keep thinking of the teflon comment you made about BID a couple of games back in the mod thread. Something like, "BID does all kinds of wolfy stuff, but nothing sticks to him. It's like he's made of Teflon." (Note BID was a wolf.)

I keep wanting to ask you if you're getting the exact same vibe from him, because I can't help but thinking that I am.

As far as ong goes, He started out like a pure-bred villager, but as soon as he engaged BID, his tone and hunting absolutely changed.

BID has an amazing history of soul-reading ong's tone on early D1, that much is not in question. I'm on the fence about ong, so I'm tempted to believe BID a little bit. However, BID has revealed only misdirection when it comes to his actual read, despite months of asking him to 'splain hisself. I don't understand it, so I don't vote based on it.

QED

If BID wants to cry that I don't ever vote with him when he says ong is a wolf, then BID needs to teach me to agree with him so I can see what he sees.

***
As for my own reads on ong... I think this is in his range to wolf like this, but it's not his standard, "my village game is so meta that you can't ever point to a thing I do as wolfy." thing.

His whole, "I'm not that good of a wolf." schtick is BS. Ong has had some amazing wolf runs. He badgered me into suicide one game (my bad, Hoopy and BID deserved a better teammate than me). He has an ego about his WW skills. The notion that he's not as good as Gator is like, "say something obvious, ong"... Gator's wolf rep is huge. He almost convinced me he was God in that World War Werewolf game... and JKDS was maybe the one who definitively saw through that fake claim.

Taking these together with my read that his D1 went downhill, I can safely say that ong has a lot of pick-up to accomplish, 'cause I don't think we can trust him at end-game with this baggage.

decent amount of agreement here. i still think ong is villager, but he is capable of doing the "wrongest" thing as a wolf.

[JKDS]

I stopped in to say that Beck's plan only works if poisoners MUST poison. Otherwise hes setting up an easy mislynch for tomorrow...but then this

LOLOLOLOL

BARK BARK BARK

So whatever. Im pretty sold I got it wrong and ong nailed BID.

[BankItDrew]

The following are def wolves:

rilla
ong
beck

[JKDS]

Also, the MMM post wuf just quoted is pretty solidly in MMM's villa range. Hes another one who stands out as obv villa eventually.

[BankItDrew]

How the fuck is me barking like a dog role-indicative?

[JKDS]

Oh, i didnt read wuf's "hides in the bushes and barks" thing. Still

[BankItDrew]

FTR WW should be renamed to the "FTR no fun WW game"

[Luco]

I stopped in to say that Beck's plan only works if poisoners MUST poison. Otherwise hes setting up an easy mislynch for tomorrow

Ding ding ding

I spotted this immediately but wanted to see if anyone else was paying attention

[Beck Novo]

I personally feel Beck has blinders on with regard to HiFi. BATM, HiFi and SIU all met with resistance when I mentioned shooting them. I won't be listening to them as much at 6pm.

Frankly I don't care if you shoot BATM. Go for it.

You will not shoot HiFi; this is non-negotiable. And SIU will likely be resolved later today, dependent upon who our Healer saves. So just let him be.

[Luco]

v point for jewkaids

btw the OP says you 'may' poison, not 'must'

[JKDS]

Beck, why is hifi a villager?

[SuperMonkeyFace]

Luco, who should we shoot next? I have thoughts but I'm just looking to make some chit chat, I'm bored in the library and am furthering my career as a professional procrastinator.

Just a heads up, I post my reads when I feel like it. And when I feel they're relevant.

[wufwugy]

crazy idea alert

hifi was the first person to shoot rilla and did it ASAP

FTR peeps know that rilla does not shine as a wolf like he does as a villager. his participation was lacking too

i can imagine in the den, rilla agreeing to take a bullet to give HIFI maximum cover. i do not think hifi should be included in the "100% village" camp like luco, ong, beck, me, etc

YES!