Randomness thread, part two.

[eugmac]

Never thought I'd ever buy a tablet and here I am.

[eugmac]

At least it's not an iPad

[rong]

He was so delighted by it he tried to Google chat with me on it at 6am this morning.

[supa]

Hospitals are required to give everyone stabilizing emergency room treatment. After that no one has to give you treatment if you can't pay. And people are routinely denied treatment they can't afford.

What's more ER treatment is not free, and if you're uninsured it is very expensive, at least $1000, and usually many times more expensive than what insured people pay. Of course you could default on your bill, but you don't have to be poor or uninsured to default on uncovered medical expenses.

If you're saying that people need to pay for something they already get, especially to avoid excessive rates for the 'good' people who are insured, that's not the issue. Poor people get significantly less health care than the insured and it is not free.

The fat in the system is with the lawyers and insurance companies. Want to bring down rates? Look at tort reform and ways to increase competition. Getting the federal govt involved is the least efficient way of addressing these problems.

But what I truly hate about Obamacare is that it creates a whole new class of criminals out of people who have done nothing at all. It criminalizes poverty. There are going to be many people who do not get covered no matter what the rates, because they cannot afford it or because they can't deal with the paperwork (like the mentally ill). Now they're criminals and that's bullshit.

Dude, that's a fuckton of spew for having not answered the question.

[abelardx]

Dude, that's a fuckton of spew for having not answered the question.

Nothing is free, genius.

[abelardx]

Except my rapier like wit.

[wufwugy]

Nothing is free, genius.

The myths about healthcare you've been told certainly are free

[Chelle]

Tonight I bought hair.

whatthefuck.

Going to a model/photographer huge Halloween party where I get a free drink, get to dress up in my fairy costume [that i need to finish], and gonna have some more pics taken I think. But yeah, uh, I bought fucking hair in order to make extensions to have long ass fairy hair.

..i bought hair. what the fuck. just what the serious fuck.

[abelardx]

1. There's a hair store? 2. I bet the fairy costume will be awesome.

[Chelle]

1. There's a hair store? 2. I bet the fairy costume will be awesome.

There are several stores dedicated to wigs and hair extensions and wig accessories and hair extension accessories. I'm hoping the costume will look awesome. I still have to make the wings, the sleeves for the dress, the other fairy shoe, and the fairy ear wraps. So uh, yeah, I have til the 22nd to get it done, the party is on the 23rd, and I have more life shit that I have to do on the 23rd. I've had the shit to do it for over a month now, but I'm dumb and procrastinated.

P.S. - I made a costume for my last shoot as well, well, kind of. I was a creepy broken/bloody doll.

[bikes]

[bikes]

When all else fails, simply does as North Carolina does and cut welfare.

[a500lbgorilla]

Except my rapier like wit.

[abelardx]

He probably does think it's free.

[wufwugy]

He probably does think it's free.

Does it not give you pause to think that the side that makes the arguments you make is the side that has created a system that spends far more on healthcare, while covering far fewer people, than any other modern country? IIRC it's 17% GDP vs 12%

You'd think those who have been perpetually, adamantly wrong about this issue would sit down and let the adults handle the situation. But no, only cries and screams and demonstrably false accusations

Besides, you should be more infuriated by the conservative side than the liberal side due to conservatives refusing to engage in reform. Conservatism has several really great ideas about healthcare, but they have done everything they can to not implement them. They have done everything they can to kill all reform, and this means that they have deliberately made things worse and they have no leg to stand on when it comes to opining about it. If conservatives truly wanted the healthcare system to be better, they would have joined Obama and the Democrats in reforming the system. They would have done things like make sure there is no employee mandate and that it's paid through taxes instead of premiums. But they refused to engaged, and they are the problem

If you want people to agree with you, you have to agree with what is correct

[a500lbgorilla]

He probably does think it's free.

America is Free.



Love it or Leave it, buddy.

[eugmac]

Last 3 days. Coffee maker bites the dust. Then the DSL modem/router. And now the bottom of a basket gives out to drop its contents onto my tablet . the heaviest item , a 3.5 inch external hard drive in a solid metal enclosure, makes a direct hit on the glass. Cursed?

[rong]

So that new tablet you loved?

[eugmac]

Still love.

[bikes]

Last 3 days. Coffee maker bites the dust. Then the DSL modem/router. And now the bottom of a basket gives out to drop its contents onto my tablet . the heaviest item , a 3.5 inch external hard drive in a solid metal enclosure, makes a direct hit on the glass. Cursed?

[rong]

So, healthcare in America.

I get ill and I'm poor with shit/no insurance.

I go to a hospital.

With no insurance, do they treat me?
With shit insurance that won't cover the care I really need. Will I still get it?

Is it the case that I get it and then I'm billed after? Do I need to demonstrate an ability to pay prior to receiving treatment?

if they treat you and bill you. If the bills ate huge and I know it's gonna bust me, do you get lots of post illness pre bankruptcy binges where people just go crazy and blow every asset they have while they are both experiencing a renewed appreciation for life and have their last remaining days of access to their assets?

[bikes]

So, healthcare in America.

I get ill and I'm poor with shit/no insurance.

I go to a hospital.

With no insurance, do they treat me?
With shit insurance that won't cover the care I really need. Will I still get it?

Is it the case that I get it and then I'm billed after? Do I need to demonstrate an ability to pay prior to receiving treatment?

if they treat you and bill you. If the bills ate huge and I know it's gonna bust me, do you get lots of post illness pre bankruptcy binges where people just go crazy and blow every asset they have while they are both experiencing a renewed appreciation for life and have their last remaining days of access to their assets?

in short, you're fucked. like. 16 inch dick up ass no lube jackhammered fucked.

[rong]

I was hoping for a little more detail. Not about the cock in my ass, but about how the healthcare thing plays out.

[wufwugy]

So, healthcare in America.

I get ill and I'm poor with shit/no insurance.

I go to a hospital.

With no insurance, do they treat me?
With shit insurance that won't cover the care I really need. Will I still get it?

Is it the case that I get it and then I'm billed after? Do I need to demonstrate an ability to pay prior to receiving treatment?

if they treat you and bill you. If the bills ate huge and I know it's gonna bust me, do you get lots of post illness pre bankruptcy binges where people just go crazy and blow every asset they have while they are both experiencing a renewed appreciation for life and have their last remaining days of access to their assets?

And people who do have insurance have much higher premiums in order to covering the costs of the uninsured, and the uninsured have reduced income expectations (due to things like bankruptcy), which lowers GDP and raises unemployment

Anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-government sensibilities are not founded in rationality. They're really just carryover from the Southern Oligarchy whose economy and state system was based on aristocracy and slavery, Appalachian settlers-turned-cowboys who believed individualism trumps all, and Great Plains settlers who allowed corporations to run roughshod over them because things like railroads were the only ways to even have an economy in the middle of nowhere

[bikes]

K so if you have an emergency illness and have no insurance or monies the emergency room is required by law to fix you. the level of fixing you receive ultimately comes down to what you can afford and regardless you will get billed for this. and trips to the E.R. are hella expensive. but once you're there they have to treat you and then you'll get billed out the ass for it.

no you don't need to prove ability to repay which is why unexpected medical bills is a huge portion of bankruptcy filings.

if they treat you and bill you. If the bills ate huge and I know it's gonna bust me, do you get lots of post illness pre bankruptcy binges where people just go crazy and blow every asset they have while they are both experiencing a renewed appreciation for life and have their last remaining days of access to their assets?

as for this? no idea.

[rong]

What kind of an answer was that?

That was at wuf not bikes. Ty bikes.

[bikes]

i think the national avg for just being admitted to the E,R with no insurance was like ~$1,000 which to people who live paycheck to paycheck is just backbreaking

[wufwugy]

Oh, if you don't have insurance, you only get ER treatment because no hospital will turn you away if you're on the brink. Then you go into bankruptcy because you can't pay the gargantuan bills of ER treatment. Then you usually lose your living arrangements and become a burden on any family or friends. If you don't have those, you're on your own, and eventually you die. We already have Universal Healthcare, it's just Emergency Room Universal Healthcare, and it's horribly expensive and inefficient

This is by far the worst fiscal drag on the US economy. The right-wing has been killing every single attempt to reform this system for 50 years, and Obama and the Democrats finally (FINALLY) got something in place that will put the country on a healing trajectory

It won't be until people whose outlooks on government are formed by the Cold War with the Soviet Communists are demographically marginalized that we won't have to deal with this socioeconomically destructive nonsense anymore.

[wufwugy]

What kind of an answer was that?

That was at wuf not bikes. Ty bikes.

I thought you were being rhetorical

[rong]

I dunno. The trajectory of the countries debt will probably mean by that time you're all fucked anyway.

[abelardx]

America is Free.

Love it or Leave it, buddy.

America is significantly less free than it was before Obama. And do you say love it or leave it when a Repub administration passes legislation you don't like?

[rong]

I thought you were being rhetorical

No, they were legit yet badly phrased questions.

This might sound stupid to you guys but the only healthcare system I fully understand is free at point of use (mostly) where if I'm ill they promptly fix me without any cost whatsoever. Anything other than this seems so alien to me I struggle to fathom how it would work in practice.

[wufwugy]

I dunno. The trajectory of the countries debt will probably mean by that time you're all fucked anyway.

The debt is actually doing fine. We're down from something like 10% deficits to 4% just over the last 3 years, and this is considering subpar growth due to GOP obstruction and the Federal Reserve's low inflation target and unclear monetary policy

The only current problem the debt causes is the manufactured political crisis by the Republicans, and a surplus actually won't be that difficult to get once employment nears full

[wufwugy]

America is significantly less free than it was before Obama.

Stop talking

[bikes]

Bobby Jindal 2016! Savior of the Right!

[abelardx]

Stop talking

You are not very good at handling different points of view. I bet the people who know you refuse to argue with you because you are so closed-minded. Do you ever wonder why people don't appreciate your oh-so-knowledgeable opinions? You should see a shrink. You are fucked up.

[d0zer]

America is significantly less free than it was before Obama. And do you say love it or leave it when a Repub administration passes legislation you don't like?

I'm confused, are you trolling or not? This post kinda makes it seem like you've been on level 0 this whole time but like they say, a troll great enough will be indistinguishable from that which he is parodying.

[rong]

You are not very good at handling different points of view. I bet the people who know you refuse to argue with you because you are so closed-minded. Do you ever wonder why people don't appreciate your oh-so-knowledgeable opinions? You should see a shrink. You are fucked up.

Hmmmm, have you been following WW?

[abelardx]

Stop talking

Oh and fuck you.

[abelardx]

Hmmmm, have you been following WW?

It's an echo chamber in here. See what happens when one person disagrees.

[abelardx]

I'm confused, are you trolling or not? This post kinda makes it seem like you've been on level 0 this whole time but like they say, a troll great enough will be indistinguishable from that which he is parodying.

When the government forces you to do something, you are less free. How do you not see that?

[d0zer]

You are not very good at handling different points of view.

You use the term "libtards" to generalize an entire group that has an opposing point of view. That is all.

[wufwugy]

You are not very good at handling different points of view. I bet the people who know you refuse to argue with you because you are so closed-minded. Do you ever wonder why people don't appreciate your oh-so-knowledgeable opinions? You should see a shrink. You are fucked up.

Blah blah blah

You really just said we're less free because Obama. You couldn't say something more ignorant of the country if you tried

[abelardx]

You use the term "libtards" to generalize an entire group that has an opposing point of view. That is all.

That was meant humorously. To give you a taste of what it's like to be the one outsider. I actually do not discredit people as stupid or malicious for having different opinions than me. Unlike the asshole wuf.

[abelardx]

You are not very good at handling different points of view. I bet the people who know you refuse to argue with you because you are so closed-minded. Do you ever wonder why people don't appreciate your oh-so-knowledgeable opinions? You should see a shrink. You are fucked up.

Blah blah blah

You really just said we're less free because Obama. You couldn't say something more ignorant of the country if you tried

Seriously.

[eugmac]

you guys are arguing with strangers on the internet.

[rong]

That's what it's for!

[wufwugy]

I didn't mean it in the "shut up you're a bad person" sort of way, but the "shut up before you show everybody you believe asinine things" sort of way

Consider it an act of kindness

[abelardx]

I didn't mean it in the "shut up you're a bad person" sort of way, but the "shut up before you show everybody you believe asinine things" sort of way

Consider it an act of kindness

OK. No problem. Truce. But I'm not embarrassed by my opinions. I went through a lot to get them.

[boost]

That was meant humorously. To give you a taste of what it's like to be the one outsider. I actually do not discredit people as stupid or malicious for having different opinions than me. Unlike the asshole wuf.

Having differences in opinion is fine. Holding absurd opinions which contrast reality, then demanding people respect your opinions-- well.. we're not going to, and that should be obvious.

You are propagating the notion that one issue should be held all important, at all costs. Defaulting on our debt is not a joke. This is going to royally fuck shit up. There was an appropriate time to debate the issue, one side lost, but overall it was a compromise-- now the losing side, the side which received pretty generous concessions, is holding the world economy hostage. There is no other way to see it. It's a singular issue. Get over it-- or win the vote and have the ACA repealed. Oh, wait, you tried that, you lost, and yet here we are.

I mean, don't you get that this is a losing strategy? The Republican base sure is fired up, but what about the center? What about the Latinos? The right is not winning the presidency in '16. The Republican party is (thankfully) in its death throws, because of numbnuts like you. Sadly the party isn't imploding, it's exploding putrid shit all over the rest of us.

[boost]

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013...-end-shut-down

Game, blouses.

[d0zer]

This thread is dangerously close to becoming the new defacto politics thread. This wasn't a problem before abelardx showed up. Congrats on being a worse poster than ImSavy, ongabona and wufwugy combined

[wufwugy]

Having differences in opinion is fine. Holding absurd opinions which contrast reality, then demanding people respect your opinions-- well.. we're not going to, and that should be obvious.

You are propagating the notion that one issue should be held all important, at all costs. Defaulting on our debt is not a joke. This is going to royally fuck shit up. There was an appropriate time to debate the issue, one side lost, but overall it was a compromise-- now the losing side, the side which received pretty generous concessions, is holding the world economy hostage. There is no other way to see it. It's a singular issue. Get over it-- or win the vote and have the ACA repealed. Oh, wait, you tried that, you lost, and yet here we are.

I mean, don't you get that this is a losing strategy? The Republican base sure is fired up, but what about the center? What about the Latinos? The right is not winning the presidency in '16. The Republican party is (thankfully) in its death throws, because of numbnuts like you. Sadly the party isn't imploding, it's exploding putrid shit all over the rest of us.

Yeah this is really terrible strategy for the GOP. The party leaders don't want to do it, but have to due to their biggest electoral threat coming in primaries. Also the establishment drinks some of their own koolaid and don't see the writing on the wall. They think they can gain ground with this if only they try, but they don't realize they're already cooked. If they keep it up this year, they are at risk of losing the House in 2014, and Hillary will serve them for dinner in 2016 and 2020. I suspect it will be after they lose in an electoral landslide in 2024 that they will realize they truly need to change. I don't think they will realize it under Hillary because they already hate her so much that their vilification habits will override their rationality. It will come after they start losing many Texas districts in the House due to its enormous yet young Hispanic population coming into older age where they will vote as regularly as nationwide Hispanics.

The GOP should already see the writing on the wall with Florida, or with a mixture of Virginia and Colorado, but they can't. They still think those are lean red states, but they simply aren't paying attention to the demographic shifts, namely for these reasons:

1) Miami-Dade is becoming the sixth borough of New York, and the new generations of Cubans don't remember Bay of Pigs and don't vote Republican because they're mad at Kennedy like their parents are.

2) Virginia is getting tons of tech-based immigration from city liberals and Asian Americans. The state recently got a higher than national average Asian American population, and every single state with that votes heavily blue. I think it has to do with regions hitting a sort of tipping point that attracts the high-skill, educated, non-Protestant Asian Americans. I don't think Virginia is voting red any time soon.

3) Colorado's immigration isn't just from Mexico, it's from California, and they bring with them their socially liberal views. The presidential election always seems to boil down to those who think abortion should be legal voting Democrat and those who think abortion should be illegal voting Republican, and now Colorado has a whole bunch more people who think it should be legal

[wufwugy]

This thread is dangerously close to becoming the new defacto politics thread. This wasn't a problem before abelardx showed up. Congrats on being a worse poster than ImSavy, ongabona and wufwugy combined

I'm preaching science, bro. I really should be a political strategist

[a500lbgorilla]

[jackvance]

It seems like an agreement has been reached. I expect the aftermath for the republicans/tea party to be really, really bad. Everything they've been doing has been exposed now. A lot of their backers are already jumping ship.

Watch this clip that's going viral for a good laugh:

http://www.upworthy.com/congress-did...to-make-up?g=2

[MadMojoMonkey]

When the government forces you to do something, you are less free. How do you not see that?

Wait... Isn't the government forcing people to pay for something that was otherwise basically stolen?

I mean, if someone has no insurance, and no way to pay for medical care, and yet winds up in the ER for whatever reason, then they're receiving a service for which they have no intention of paying. That's damn near a definition of stealing... taking something of value without giving appropriate compensation.

So what the government is forcing is people who otherwise would have no insurance to get insurance, thus preventing them from stealing from the healthcare industry. The government isn't forcing people who already have insurance to do anything. Furthermore, by forcing the would-be-thieves to pay for the system they are already using, it reduces fees for the 'honest' people who have had insurance all along.

[wufwugy]

Wait... Isn't the government forcing people to pay for something that was otherwise basically stolen?

I mean, if someone has no insurance, and no way to pay for medical care, and yet winds up in the ER for whatever reason, then they're receiving a service for which they have no intention of paying. That's damn near a definition of stealing... taking something of value without giving appropriate compensation.

So what the government is forcing is people who otherwise would have no insurance to get insurance, thus preventing them from stealing from the healthcare industry. The government isn't forcing people who already have insurance to do anything. Furthermore, by forcing the would-be-thieves to pay for the system they are already using, it reduces fees for the 'honest' people who have had insurance all along.

Good point, but the government still isn't forcing anybody to get insurance. This is one reason why I think it would have been smarter to make the Bronze plan something like Medicare-for-all and paid for through income taxes, because then people would clearly see that it's a tax. Instead, because of the mandate, people view it as the government forcing their hand. But it isn't a hand-forcing, it's just a tax on people who don't have it. It's done through tax returns and people are free to not get insurance and keep paying their penalty each year, just like they're free to not have car insurance and pay penalties if they ever get pulled over

Justice Roberts' claim that it is a tax and the government can't force people to buy insurance is accurate. It is a tax and nobody is being forced to do anything.

[NightGizmo]

America is significantly less free than it was before Obama. And do you say love it or leave it when a Repub administration passes legislation you don't like?

You're complaining on a poker forum about government reductions of freedom in America and blaming Obama? It was Bush and the Republicans that passed back-door legislation and used weak charges to aggressively kill online poker in America. And that's just one example from the Bush administration.

If you want to have an intelligent conversation, try using facts and reason instead of spewing sound bites you heard on Fox News.

[supa]

If you want to have an intelligent conversation...

Never gonna happen.

[rpm]

lawl

[abelardx]

Watch carefully. Because this is how it works. First the rich are screwing you over by not paying their fair share even though they pay the majority of taxes collected. Now the poor are stealing from you even though they get far less and pay far more. You dems are the perennial victims. Everybody is screwing you over but that's OK because you'll just force them to do whatever you think they should do. In the name of freedom.

[abelardx]

Driving without insurance is a crime not a tax penalty. If you fail to get insurance when the law requires it, you are a criminal, even if the penalty is only financial, which it won't be for long if it is now. It is the government forcing you to do something just for being alive in this country. It is a significant loss of freedom.

[abelardx]

This thread is dangerously close to becoming the new defacto politics thread. This wasn't a problem before abelardx showed up. Congrats on being a worse poster than ImSavy, ongabona and wufwugy combined

Sorry you feel that way dozer.

[a500lbgorilla]

You're absolutely right. We have lost our freedom not to have health insurance. I mean, I was planning on always having health insurance, but god dammit I want my freedom!

Sure, we're trading those freedoms for certain perks like a restructuring of a broken insurance system which all balanced analysis suggests will drive down costs but you can't ignore the distinct forfeiture of freedom those perks cost.

It's just like how buying a house is a significant loss of money. Maybe you do get a house, but think of all the precious money you're just pissing away!

Obamacare is another in a long line of lost American freedoms. My great grandfather still gets teary eyed when he talks about the day he lost the freedom to ignore the female vote. Or the day Social Security took away our freedom to watch the elderly fall into poverty, sickness, and a malnourished and shameful end... His opinion kinda shifted on that last one late in life, but I choose to remember him when he was a more principled man.

Freedom is everything.

[abelardx]

It's not just freedom, gorilla. It's self-determination. The pattern has been established. Now the majority has the right to tell everyone what to do so long as they think it is the right thing. That is a big deal. Imagine what some people might want to force you to do, that they believe would be best for you, which you might not like. That's not too hard, is it? And frightening.

You want to start a new entitlement program, raise taxes and buy universal health care? Fine. This is totally different.

And for the record, I appreciate that your response did not include any personal shots.

I came here for the poker and liked it, felt at home. I'm not a troll. But I will stick up for myself. It would be nice if I didn't have to.

You're the mod. Do you understand that?

[a500lbgorilla]

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013...-end-shut-down

Game, blouses.

Called it. Barry O stands pat and gets everything he wants.

[a500lbgorilla]

Abe, when I see what I perceive as a failure of analysis, imma poke fun. I've been listening to conservative talk radio for years. Quinn and Rose in the morning. I've heard it all. I voted for Bush. I'll vote R again assuming they start looking like Canadian conservatives.

Politics is a game of insulting the voters intelligence in a manner that leaves you feeling like the other guy is being insulted. When you talk about freedom lost or the power of self determination, you're really just talking about which political narrative you find most comfortable to claim and most insulting to those that don't. You must understand that.

People listen to conservative talk radio becuase "we were right yesterday, we're right today and you better believe we'll be right tomorrow” and they equip you with all the rhetorical bullets you need to survive any duel.

When you try to impress the value of this sort of analysis, all I see is you picking up all the old rhetorical arms of american conservatives. Tools like liberalism always accomplishes the opposite of its stated goals or liberal is an insult.

I just don't think you're ever going to find any value or achieve any result with this sort of thinking.

Unless the result is 1 more vote for the Rs.

[abelardx]

OK. But I'm not a wonk or listen to talk radio or follow politics. It's just what I think. No problem. Carry on as you were.

[a500lbgorilla]

No probs. As mod I'm just happy to see new people posting and the commune is for hammering out any sentence you want on the web.

We need new blood. The old guard has been jerking each other around so long, our hands are calloused.

[Savy]

I'm slightly confused by the freedom issue. Surely having money and being able to get credit in America is what gives you the most freedom. So if healthcare in America is causing lots of people to go bankrupt it's actually crippling their freedoms. So in reality it's probably a net gain of freedom for US citizens. That's before you take into effect the horrible effect that it has on your economic system as a whole.

[d0zer]

Sorry you feel that way dozer.

If you were truly sorry you'd do something about it

[abelardx]

If you were truly sorry you'd do something about it

Like what?

Oh you mean post better rite?

[abelardx]

If you were truly sorry you'd do something about it

I, Abelard Lindsay aka Abelard X, sundog extraordinaire and hero of schismatrix, promise to be cool in the commune, not curse other people even if they appear to be acting rudely towards me, take a deep breath before posting, and to always put on either a bread hat or tin foil hat, my choice, before engaging in political discussion.

[abelardx]

I'm slightly confused by the freedom issue. Surely having money and being able to get credit in America is what gives you the most freedom. So if healthcare in America is causing lots of people to go bankrupt it's actually crippling their freedoms. So in reality it's probably a net gain of freedom for US citizens. That's before you take into effect the horrible effect that it has on your economic system as a whole.

Millions of Americans are the working poor living on the edge. (Probably that's the same everywhere idk.) And many people fall through the cracks. My bottom line is that falling through the cracks shouldn't be a crime. Legislation designed to make people 'do the right thing' is offensive because it totally disregards the weakest members of society many of whom will never fit in no matter what you do. They should be included not marginalized. Requiring purchases and paperwork is laughable to many people who are either on or have already gone over the edge. Good intentions, bad execution. And btw tort reform would do more to control sky high medical rates than anything else.