Corruption Werewolf

[OngBonga]

* I didn't forget you were in that endgame wuf, I just forgot to type your name.

[OngBonga]

Yes kitty, we're going to throw you on the fire to find out if you're actually a wolf...

[supa]

i'm happy with any of chipeaterman/jyms/pascal/ong for now
but there is a lot of fluff in the posts to date, and barely any content.

Anyway you could give some reasoning here?

[supa]

Uh... any way*

[JKDS]

Vote Count 1.3 Final Count!

Bigred(3): Gatorjh, Aubrey, Ongbonga
Gator(1): Bigred
Chipeaterman(5) pascal, supa, hoopy, jyms, rong
Pascal(2) Eugmac, Chipeaterman
Daven(1):, Jackvance
Jackvance(1): Wufwugy

Thanks for your patience!

[JKDS]

Prosectutor: "Judge JKDS! We have brought before you the killer of Mayor a500lbgorilla!"

Defense Attorney: "Objection! That statement is highly prejudicial! In our society, people are innocent until proven guilty!

Judge JKDS: "Hrmmm..."

Prosecutor: "Your honor, we have found the weapon used to kill Mayor a500lbgorllia in the defendant's study. His fingerprints were all over it. We also found a single sheet of paper detailing how he did it."

The Defense scrambles to say anything that might get this thrown out.

Defense: "Uh, your honor...this evidence...uh...it wasnt obtained using proper chain of custory requirements! Yeah! Anyone could have put that there! We move to suppress!

Judge JKDS thinks this over, clears his throat nervously, then says: "Overruled, and denied."
The defense is solemn. Fastforward to the trial, and the entire city of (City Name Withheld) was present. Rabbling up a storm, they were calling for blood. The prosecutor managed to get a bench trial somehow, and what we then saw was the quickest trial of the century.

Although the defense provided a riveting closing statement, the Judge found Chipeaterman guilty of this crime. The prosecutor pushed for a death sentence, which contrary to the standard in (City Name Withheld), was granted.

The City of (City Name Withheld)

The Living
Luco
Rong
Ong
Jyms
Jackvance
Pascal
Wufwugy
Gator
Hoopy
Aubrey
Daven
Supa
Eugmac
Bigred

The Dead
Chipeaterman (Convict), sentenced to death on Day 1

Night Will last 24 Hours. Night Kills may be forgone.

[JKDS]

The city celebrated. With the mayor's killer found, there was little to worry about it seemed and much to rejoice about.

News for last night included reports of boost's entrance into the F1 nascar circuit, despite his physical handicaps. He is quoted as saying "Yeah, as it turns out...pretty much any white guy can do this." In other news, spoonitnow just came out with another book. This one is titled "Math, and why Im better at it than you part2." It should be a very good read. We are expecting a sunny day tomorrow with a slight chance of fog, and the people are eagerly anticipating the finale of the hit show Game of Thrones.

Oh, and in a small blurb in their news ticker, Ongbonga was found with illegal drugs in his apartment. While unexpected, no one was really surprised. While Ongbonga was a500lbgorilla's #2 and was likely going to succeed him as mayor, one citizen of (City Name Withheld) said, "I guess you can never really know someone."

While the police did not have a warrant, or even probable cause, to search Ongbonga's home, this fact was quickly buried by the prosecution and the motions to suppress the evidence were denied. Once again, there was a quick trial and conviction. And once again, the prosecutor pushed for and received a death sentence.

However, one noble member of the police department of (City Name Withheld) filed a report stating that "it appears more than one person was involved in a500lbgorilla's death".

The city upon hearing this is once again out for blood. Bring me this accomplice!!!

The City of (City Name Withheld)

The Living
Luco
Rong
Jyms
Jackvance
Pascal
Wufwugy
Gator
Hoopy
Aubrey
Daven
Supa
Eugmac
Bigred

The Dead
Chipeaterman (Convict), sentenced to death on Day 1
Ong (Convict), sentenced to death on night 1.

It is now Day2. The deadline is 48 hours. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

[jyms]

Ok I'm confused. I thought the dead red name was a good thing. Wolves are usually red and villagers are green. Am I to assume now that there are two "wolf" teams since another red name has been put up? Or are we all convicts and we are after something else?

[eugmac]

Exciting.

[wufwugy]

Interesting. Overnight I decided that the team is unlikely to include Hoopy, and my next pick was JV Chippy and Ong. Adding Ong was mainly because he lynched Bigred after Chippy was done for. As a villager, he would easily jump on Chippy, but as a wolf, could convince himself into thinking it would look bad to lynch Chippy

[eugmac]

Ong's gonna ong, though

[Hoopy]

Heh it's really fun when we have no idea what's going on, I get the feeling that the city name will be very important.

[Hoopy]

Could be that "convicts" are actually the villagers in this game, might make sense of the night actions.

[jyms]

I was told in PM I am a villager. I'm going by that

[Hoopy]

I was told in PM I am a villager. I'm going by that

Yeah I guess we just have to wait and see what explanation is for Ong getting killed last night is.

Also thinking about the city name, could it be New York?

[rong]

Ignoring that two convicts, which I'm reading as wolves, have died, I'm not sure on the reasons for killing Ong. Is it just that they think he's good so are getting rid of good players? If so, surely jv and gator go first. Or is it due to something he posted? Hard to tell at this point.

Re the two convicts that died, if they were from two different teams, wouldn't that be stated? I mean maybe chipeater was on the wolf team and then night one was a lone wolf having the first kill? Otherwise it means the wolf team killed their own buddy, which makes no sense.

[jyms]

Possibly the convicts don't know each other, or there are two teams. It's also possible there was no night kill and a vig shot. So many options.

[wufwugy]

It's either more than one team or specials with special powers. Really no way to tell right now. I think it's clear that the Convicts are one team of baddies. If not, that's mod fail. A little surprised JV wasn't targeted instead of Ong because he was the clear leader for baddy after Chippy flipped. Chippy turning wolf just makes the case for JV better

lynch JV

[daven]

Night Kills may be forgone.

note the plural form here, so vig who didn't fire a shot, as well as some uncertainty among wolves?

why would a wolf team not take a night kill? is there a wolf playing in isolation? - this is the only option that makes sense if convicts = some type of wolves. If there is a normal 'wolf team gets a night kill' buzz going on then they don't kill Ong, or if he was a hidden wolf of some sort.

[wufwugy]

only time ive seen night kills be foregone is recruits or blocks

[daven]

i want to use info based on the interactions in the thread that involved ong and chipeater. But i'd like to know something about whether they were villagers or not because that has a huge impact on how those interactions read.
Were ong and chip 'convicts' prior to day 1 ending? is pretty key in this
next question would probably be something like: are all villagers convicts?

[daven]

i also think Jyms is a villager, and i'm getting more suspicious of hoopy
but, again, this is based on all sorts of assumptions regarding roles, how many of each there are, how many teams, etc...

[jackvance]

Villagers dying are now called convicts, probably has something to do with the way the plot of [redacted] is gonna go. Being fixed by the police or whatever, don't wanna think about it too much atm because there'll sure be twists.

Jyms is an obvious villager now because of having gone back to reread his PM if it said villager and not convict is exactly what I did. The ong kill makes it look like the wolves want to curb high volume posts, but could be for any random reason too.

Dunno why wuf is still derping about me.

[rong]

Basically, we don't know anything. So I don't really know how to proceed.

[eugmac]

the name of the game is corruption, but i dunno what that implies yet, if anything.

[wufwugy]

If the convicts arent baddies, I dont care anymore. It is imperative that true roles are known at time of death.

I think the most likely scenario is that there is one baddy left and it's JV. Could be two, but that's pushing it

[daven]

Jyms is an obvious villager now because of having gone back to reread his PM if it said villager and not convict

yep, this was my reason but i didn't explain it. Mostly because I didn't like it cos it feels as though referencing the pms from jkds may have ruined the game

[wufwugy]

Also, I'm not particularly interested in talking about what happened during the night phase, but my guess is that a special has a reflect and used it well. Any other explanation is whack

[jackvance]

yep, this was my reason but i didn't explain it. Mostly because I didn't like it cos it feels as though referencing the pms from jkds may have ruined the game

I agree but yeah.. probably every villager is thinking this.

[jackvance]

the name of the game is corruption, but i dunno what that implies yet, if anything.

Corrupt police and justice are making the innocent dead look like killers. That's my guess with the current info given.

[rong]

.....but my guess is that a special has a reflect and used it well......

Corrupt police and justice are making the innocent dead look like killers. That's my guess with the current info given.

One of these is most likely.

So we proceed assuming both were villagers?

It makes no sense for chipeater to be a wolf given his behaviour, his team mates would have stoped him. And it makes no sense for the wolves to have killed on eof there own, so I think that assuming both to be villagers is the best assumption for no and at least that gives us something to work on.

[eugmac]

One of these is most likely.

So we proceed assuming both were villagers?

It makes no sense for chipeater to be a wolf given his behaviour, his team mates would have stoped him. And it makes no sense for the wolves to have killed on eof there own, so I think that assuming both to be villagers is the best assumption for no and at least that gives us something to work on.

All of this makes sense to me, I think both were villagers.

[eugmac]

The narration makes it really sound like Ong was framed/wrongfully convicted, making it less likely that "convict" means wolf.

[wufwugy]

The evidence that the convicts are wrongfully convicted villagers is not clear. The hints exist, but hints exist for a variety of contradictory things. It could be that the "corruption" is for JKDS' storytelling process alone. Could be that some of the roles have secret (corrupt) winning conditions. If the role labels are a trick, we might as well just lynch randomly because there is no way to beat the margin of error of interpreting what means what

[jackvance]

One of these is most likely.

Government being corrupt is what the stories are inferring, so that's what JKDS wants us to think at the very least.

[bigred]

Easy day 2, lynch gator

He clearly is a convict. Look at him!

[wufwugy]

The narration makes it really sound like Ong was framed/wrongfully convicted, making it less likely that "convict" means wolf.

It does, but the Chippy one doesn't. That's one reason why mislabeling dead roles is mega risky business. At the very least, the storytelling would have to be perfect in order to not mislead

We have never played a game where the story has any bearing on the roles. If the convicts are actually villagers, the wolves win 100% of the time unless the specials are juggernauts. That's just the way this game works

[eugmac]

Well, ong wasn't convicted of being a wolf aka a killer, just a drug addict, so the narration hasn't implied anything about a wolf being killed during the night.

[jackvance]

Thought I posted this already but it didn't come through. Wuf might have some special that he has to defend the corrupt government, or it's the use of a special power on him. I mean, most likely Ong is a simple villager as he got killed in the night phase and like eugmac said the narration makes it clear he's actually innocent. Wuf's postings have been too strange, even for him.

[wufwugy]

I should add the reason why the wolves would be so favored if the convicts are framed villagers is that they know this while the village doesn't. The village already has to play super master clue detective to win. Once they start being able to get even less information, the tide turns against them in a big way. Unless, of course, there are lots of specials with mega powers. If that's the case, then the village is nothing more than just a wacky waving inflatable flailing arm tube man

[eugmac]

Thought I posted this already but it didn't come through. Wuf might have some special that he has to defend the corrupt government, or it's the use of a special power on him. I mean, most likely Ong is a simple villager as he got killed in the night phase and like eugmac said the narration makes it clear he's actually innocent. Wuf's postings have been too strange, even for him.

Yeah, I don't mind making a move based on this.

Lynch wufwugy

[rong]

Assuming Ong was a villager, I'm thinking this post could be what got him killed. Assuming there is some kind of different game setup, which the wolves know something about and can use to their advantage, this post shows Ong to be a villager who is likely to have more info on the potential of how the game is set up than the rest of us which would make him an obv night one choice. Also explains him being chosen above gator or JV. The alternative is of course that one/both of them is a wolf of course.

There's gonna be 3 or 4 wolves by the way. Don't be surprised if wolves have power roles too, they could have a role cop, who investigates villagers to see if they're special, they might have a godfather, which is a baddie who investigates as innocent to a seer/cop, and they might have a roleblocker. These are common baddie roles on mafiascum. They might also have roles like tracker and watcher, village might also have these roles. There's also a small chance of 3 wolves and one serial killer, that should become obvious after a night or two.

It's pretty standard on this other site for the village to not know how many wolves there are. On the flip side, it's unlikely that the wolves know what roles village have.

[wufwugy]

I haven't been posting strangely at all. What I have been doing is interpreting the game the way it's usually interpreted.

But you should probably lynch me because I'm going to be a colossal buzzkill if the convicts are framed villagers. Mislabeling dead roles is almost as bad as not even having any baddies in the first place. JKDS said he'd do that too. Regardless, I have no interest in the sort of thing

[rong]

Not that I like to defend anyone in this game without good reason, but Wuf's more recent post just seem like Wuf to me.

JV, I'm assuming you're Wuf attack is just a tit for tat defence. Which is pretty weak for you. And if you think he is possibly a village special, why would you state that so publicly?

[rong]

edit to above: post should read posts.

[jyms]

I'll go with it. He seems to have a lot of ideas about a game where we seem lost.

Lynch wuf

[Luco]

I'm struggling to see how we solve this if theres two wolf teams. I've been looking at the day 1 interactions, for example jyms said ong was looking wolfy. Does that give jyms villager cred, or is he just on wolf team 2? Or is he even just going for cover?

It doesn't make sense.

Chip was pretty villager imo.

[jackvance]

Not that I like to defend anyone in this game without good reason, but Wuf's more recent post just seem like Wuf to me.

JV, I'm assuming you're Wuf attack is just a tit for tat defence. Which is pretty weak for you. And if you think he is possibly a village special, why would you state that so publicly?

If I wanted to go tit for tat I'd be talking about his attack on me, but I'm leaving that aside because it's hard to not be biased about it. And the type of special it looks like is not a village one. Btw I'm not saying it to lynch him, but trying to figure out what is going on.

[jackvance]

I'm struggling to see how we solve this if theres two wolf teams. I've been looking at the day 1 interactions, for example jyms said ong was looking wolfy. Does that give jyms villager cred, or is he just on wolf team 2? Or is he even just going for cover?

It doesn't make sense.

I wouldn't look too much at something like jyms calling ong wolfy, we're all at the level where the wolves know to diversify, and we don't even know what is going on. It's nice for lategame when we know who some of the bad guys are to piece things together though.

It's more difficult with two teams yes, but I won't believe that is what is going on until I see an actual villager kill, we're too few people to support 2 wolf teams. Also Chip looked to pretty plainly not have any special at all or he wouldn't have played like that.

[rong]

I don't see 2 teams either, maybe a lone wolf, but not a full second team, and even then it's unlikely with 15 players.

[Luco]

The lack of numbers and roles is tilting. It's my first game with specials and I can't get my head around them yet.

I was waiting all damn day for the thread to unlock, then as I went out for the evening it opens up again. Coming back to two convicts has thrown a lot of my thoughts till that point, it will have to wait till tomorrow now.

[wufwugy]

Put some thought into it, and here's what I think we should do: do the best we can to figure out what the convicts actually are while mitigating the damage. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place because it is mandatory for the village to know what each dead player's role is in order to achieve victory, and we don't have that. This means that only after a certain amount of people die can we figure out if convicts are baddies or not. So if by Day 3, there are 4 dead players all labeled convict, we will know that they are likely framed villagers. This also means that any reads we have to go on about who is acting shady or whatever aren't reliable. For example, my case for JV works a whole lot better if Chippy is a baddy. If he's not, it doesn't let JV off the hook, but it means that lynching JV today would be awful because it would be lynching a high-value villager

Due to enough confusion about the roles, we can't make lynches based on reads, and are stuck with having to make the least bad one. Which would be the lowest content and hardest to read characters.

Those options are Aubrey and Luco, obviously due to having the lowest post counts. Then Hoopy, Supa, and Pascal due to having just above the lowest post counts. And Bigred, who hasn't posted strategy in about two years. So I'm putting these six names on random.org and picking the one that pops up and lynching that

lynch luco

I may or may not switch that. I honestly think Luco is not the best choice out of those. You guys can play with the idea and we can come to a consensus

[Hoopy]

The lack of numbers and roles is tilting. It's my first game with specials and I can't get my head around them yet.

I was waiting all damn day for the thread to unlock, then as I went out for the evening it opens up again. Coming back to two convicts has thrown a lot of my thoughts till that point, it will have to wait till tomorrow now.

Yeah I don't see how there could be 2 wolf teams with only 15 players. More likely that there's a special with some kind of reflect as wuf said, or a twist in the role to do with the story.

[Hoopy]

Currently liking rong and jyms as villagers, with bigred looking the most useless right now.

[GatorJH]

Read the below by itself...

For Chipeater

The prosecutor managed to get a bench trial somehow, and what we then saw was the quickest trial of the century.

Although the defense provided a riveting closing statement, the Judge found Chipeaterman guilty of this crime. The prosecutor pushed for a death sentence, which contrary to the standard in (City Name Withheld), was granted.


For Ong

While the police did not have a warrant, or even probable cause, to search Ongbonga's home, this fact was quickly buried by the prosecution and the motions to suppress the evidence were denied. Once again, there was a quick trial and conviction. And once again, the prosecutor pushed for and received a death sentence.

I think the baddies are either corrupt prosecutors, corrupt judges or both (which could be the two team concept or they could just be on one team).

[GatorJH]

As for Bigred we have to decide how long we will let him live and be useless.

[supa]

In defense I'm at the end of a 50hr work week. I'm not going to try and up my post count for the purpose of that alone.

That said, I'm confused as fuck right now.

[jyms]

Read the below by itself...

For Chipeater

The prosecutor managed to get a bench trial somehow, and what we then saw was the quickest trial of the century.

Although the defense provided a riveting closing statement, the Judge found Chipeaterman guilty of this crime. The prosecutor pushed for a death sentence, which contrary to the standard in (City Name Withheld), was granted.


For Ong

While the police did not have a warrant, or even probable cause, to search Ongbonga's home, this fact was quickly buried by the prosecution and the motions to suppress the evidence were denied. Once again, there was a quick trial and conviction. And once again, the prosecutor pushed for and received a death sentence.

I think the baddies are either corrupt prosecutors, corrupt judges or both (which could be the two team concept or they could just be on one team).

Ya I think so. There's something else too. Possibly after tonight we hear about a special with every second night powers.

[jyms]

Maybe bigred is a good Lynch today. I don't see a lot of help like chipeater so
rescind wuf lynch bigred

[jackvance]

I'm planning to lynch bigred too, just a bit too early still to bold him for me, as he could get traction quickly.

[wufwugy]

What bigred thinks his reaction will be if we lynch him




What it will actually be




How everybody else will feel

[rong]

I don't like this random.org shit wuf. Every time it leads to a villager you've conveniently distanced yourself from it right from the off. If you wanna bold someone then provide a reason and do it, don't list half the village and then say "the internet made me do it!".

[supa]

I think it's safe to assume neither convict is actually guilty. I also think it's safe to assume that any wolf lynched will be cleared of any charges and released so that's a whole different battle. It's also possible that convicts may become exonerated at some point in the game but that's purely speculation.

I'm leaning toward a hoopy lynch.

This is Gotham City.

[wufwugy]

I don't like this random.org shit wuf. Every time it leads to a villager you've conveniently distanced yourself from it right from the off. If you wanna bold someone then provide a reason and do it, don't list half the village and then say "the internet made me do it!".

how do you suggest we interpret how people have been playing when we dont even know what the dead roles are?

only an itty bitty fraction of the time are we able to spot wolves based on their behavior unrelated to their interaction with the confirmed dead. but now that we dont actually know what the dead are, we cant do anything

[wufwugy]

for all we know, everybody will be a convict, even the wolves

this is just asinine. no matter what the interpretation is about chippy's and ong's roles, theyre still just guesses. the village loses 110% of the time that they have to guess at the dead roles

[rong]

Stop moaning wuf. I'm sure that whatever the set up is JKDS will have attempted to balance it. You claim to be an amazing werewolf player yet game after game all you say "if x is the case then I'm not interested as it's unfair", like you need to get your excuses in early. Just play the game man! Lets make assumptions. There's several plausible scenarios as we've discussed. We just have to run with our best guess as to what is going on whilst considering damage limitation for the next most likely theory. Regardless of the roles of the two convicts, I'm pretty sure a low content player is a good option today. Surely more information will trickle out as the game progresses and as usual posts will be the best evidence of roles.

[rong]

I think it's safe to assume neither convict is actually guilty. I also think it's safe to assume that any wolf lynched will be cleared of any charges and released so that's a whole different battle. It's also possible that convicts may become exonerated at some point in the game but that's purely speculation.

I'm leaning toward a hoopy lynch.

This is Gotham City.

Interesting theory re wolves being cleared. Makes sense what with the corruption thing. But wouldn't that make them invincible? If we lynch them and they get cleared then they can't die, they're hardly going to kill themselves.

[jackvance]

This is Gotham City.

This was my first thought when I saw the name redacted thing, so I hope it's not..


About Hoopy, he said earlier that he tends to have a lowish post-count but condenses everything into big posts. I dunno if it's my memory failing me but I remember him mostly making short posts only. And cba to go check it out, too tired after poker marathon.

[jackvance]

The lack of numbers and roles is tilting. It's my first game with specials and I can't get my head around them yet.

I was waiting all damn day for the thread to unlock, then as I went out for the evening it opens up again. Coming back to two convicts has thrown a lot of my thoughts till that point, it will have to wait till tomorrow now.

Aren't you exaggerating a little?

[rong]

I think bigred did an awesom Gotham city game once, I don't think it will be that again.

I'm meh on hoopy. Bigred would be better imo as he provides no content whatsoever and I cant remember if he even pulls it together in end game as we rarely let him get there.

[wufwugy]

Stop moaning wuf. I'm sure that whatever the set up is JKDS will have attempted to balance it. You claim to be an amazing werewolf player yet game after game all you say "if x is the case then I'm not interested as it's unfair", like you need to get your excuses in early. Just play the game man! Lets make assumptions. There's several plausible scenarios as we've discussed. We just have to run with our best guess as to what is going on whilst considering damage limitation for the next most likely theory. Regardless of the roles of the two convicts, I'm pretty sure a low content player is a good option today. Surely more information will trickle out as the game progresses and as usual posts will be the best evidence of roles.

That's what I said. The lack of dead role confirmation makes the best lynch one of the lowest content and/or hardest to read player

[jackvance]

Wuf, maybe you can agree that the most logical explanation and the one that the writing seems to imply, is that they were villagers, but set up? Whether that is technically true or not, we can leave aside for now, until we get more information.

And I agree with your lynching strategy for today. Dunno how long I'll sleep now, I'm so mentally exhausted from poker that it could be long, so:

lynch bigred

[Luco]

Grr, had a multi quote going on my phone and wufs gif on page 5 killed my phone's browser

Basically I've started this morning by looking at jkds' posts. I figure as he designed the game he has an idea of how we're supposed to approach this. He said general ww rules apply though so I think things will become clearer after tonight, but chip and ong being villagers seems the most plausible.

Supa I'm not seeing how this is Gotham, but assuming we can guess the name how do we use it?

I'll be out for a few hours and will vote on my return, but I'm not sold on bigred right now.

[jackvance]

Supa I'm not seeing how this is Gotham, but assuming we can guess the name how do we use it?

A batman special role might exist if it is Gotham. The name is most likely withheld because it is a known one which will explain the hidden element of the story. But no real idea what it could be yet.

[rong]

Batman is just the vig though, right? That was the case last time I think.