10nl- sizing agasint fish

[Shotglass]

I'm wondering what you've seen that makes you consider him as loose/passive in only 10 hands. What have his actions been prior to this? Has he taken anything to showdown? etc, etc. Which leads to: What sort of PF calling range would you put him on and are you ahead or behind that range?

I'm not sure that I like the 3bet pre OOP in this case, facing a raise & call. With no reads on the btn, you could be up against a decent hand. I'd just call pre.

To answer your question OTF, you can c-bet smaller to get away cheaply, about 1/3 pot, but the flip side of that is that you offer him better odds to continue. On top of that, you call him loose/passive which implies that he's going to continue unless it's really obvious that he needs to fold and even a 3/4PSB prolly won't do that.

If the btn is truly loose/passive then the whole hand is played like crap because you don't want to bluff these guys and you don't have a hand until the river.

[unclesteve]

I'm wondering what you've seen that makes you consider him as loose/passive in only 10 hands. What have his actions been prior to this? Has he taken anything to showdown? etc, etc. Which leads to: What sort of PF calling range would you put him on and are you ahead or behind that range?

I believe him to be loosepassive coz he's like 80/10 over the hands I have so far.

I'm not sure that I like the 3bet pre OOP in this case, facing a raise & call. With no reads on the btn, you could be up against a decent hand. I'd just call pre.

flatting pre is meh, CO's range has alot of hands that dominate us.

To answer your question OTF, you can c-bet smaller to get away cheaply, about 1/3 pot, but the flip side of that is that you offer him better odds to continue. On top of that, you call him loose/passive which implies that he's going to continue unless it's really obvious that he needs to fold and even a 3/4PSB prolly won't do that.

IMO he folds the flop with a decent portion of his range, and even if he doesn't, he folds lots of that on the turn, so cbetting to set up a brl is gonna be super +ev.

If the btn is truly loose/passive then the whole hand is played like crap because you don't want to bluff these guys and you don't have a hand until the river.

Again, a very narrow range of what defines a loose passive fish imo.

[Shotglass]

I believe him to be loosepassive coz he's like 80/10 over the hands I have so far

Fair enough. Since he's running 80/10, what street by street ranges did you assign him and what is your equity (from stove) against these ranges?

I think that I understand your line of thinking for this hand but have yet to see you tell us what sort of range you're giving him that would cause you to think that your line is +EV.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ge-177508.html

[unclesteve]

Fair enough. Since he's running 80/10, what street by street ranges did you assign him and what is your equity (from stove) against these ranges?

I think that I understand your line of thinking for this hand but have yet to see you tell us what sort of range you're giving him that would cause you to think that your line is +EV.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ge-177508.html

imo preflop his range is all the broadways, lots of PPs, all Ax hands, some connected hands, prolly like 67o+, all the SCs, some suited one gappers, prolly 57s+ or so.

This range doesn't hit the board texture as hard as you think, and it's a pretty small % of this range that'll call down and get to the river.

And I think I very rarely get to showdown, so I'm not really concerned about my own equity. If I hit an over, like I did in this hand, I'll be pretty happy about it, but otherwise I'm just tring to make him fold.

[Shotglass]

imo preflop his range is all the broadways, lots of PPs, all Ax hands, some connected hands, prolly like 67o+, all the SCs, some suited one gappers, prolly 57s+ or so.

This range doesn't hit the board texture as hard as you think, and it's a pretty small % of this range that'll call down and get to the river.

The bold is true and when he keeps calling you, it should be a warning.

Using your range:

Holdem Poker Simulation by ev++ Equity Calculator :: Enumerated 600000 hands
Board Cards :: 7 6 4 Q K
____Player____|______Hands______|__Combos / %____|_Win Hi %_|_Tie Hi %_|_Equity %_|
_ 1 : Preflop_|_______KsTs________|___1____ / 0.1%__|__47.23___|___2.95___|__48.71___|
_____Flop_____|_________________|___1____ / 0.1%__|__32.42___|___4.75___|__34.79___|
_____Turn_____|_________________|___1____ / 0.1%__|__19.62___|___2.82___|__21.02___|
____River_____|__________________|___1 ____/ 0.1%__|__82.98___|___1.62___|__83.79___|

_ 2 : Preflop_|______KT+|QT+|JT|___|___412__ / 31.1%_|__49.82___|___2.95___|__51.29___|
____________|_A2+|44+|67o+|23s+_
_____Flop_____|_________________|____374 __/ 28.2%_|__62.83___|___4.75___|__65.21___|
_____Turn_____|_________________|____357__ / 26.9%_|__77.57___|___2.82___|__78.98___|
____River_____|_________________|_____341__ / 25.7%_|__15.40___|___1.62___|__16.21___|

But daviddem is quicker than me and beat me to the punch: I don't think his range is as wide as you give him. What realistic range do you think he has on the each street because that will significantly change your equity (which, ott, is already pretty poor at 21%)?

[unclesteve]

The bold is true and when he keeps calling you, it should be a warning.

Using your range:

Holdem Poker Simulation by ev++ Equity Calculator :: Enumerated 600000 hands
Board Cards :: 7 6 4 Q K
____Player____|______Hands______|__Combos / %____|_Win Hi %_|_Tie Hi %_|_Equity %_|
_ 1 : Preflop_|_______KsTs________|___1____ / 0.1%__|__47.23___|___2.95___|__48.71___|
_____Flop_____|_________________|___1____ / 0.1%__|__32.42___|___4.75___|__34.79___|
_____Turn_____|_________________|___1____ / 0.1%__|__19.62___|___2.82___|__21.02___|
____River_____|__________________|___1 ____/ 0.1%__|__82.98___|___1.62___|__83.79___|

_ 2 : Preflop_|______KT+|QT+|JT|___|___412__ / 31.1%_|__49.82___|___2.95___|__51.29___|
____________|_A2+|44+|67o+|23s+_
_____Flop_____|_________________|____374 __/ 28.2%_|__62.83___|___4.75___|__65.21___|
_____Turn_____|_________________|____357__ / 26.9%_|__77.57___|___2.82___|__78.98___|
____River_____|_________________|_____341__ / 25.7%_|__15.40___|___1.62___|__16.21___|

But daviddem is quicker than me and beat me to the punch: I don't think his range is as wide as you give him. What realistic range do you think he has on the each street because that will significantly change your equity (which, ott, is already pretty poor at 21%)?

I've never seen this type of equity calc b4, where you get it?

Anyway, like I just said, his range not being wide preflop is good for us coz we got lots of fold equity coz he missed the flop.

And I have no SDV or equity, if I did I'd prolly want to see a showdown, and not be concerend with folding out his better hands.

[Razvan729]

imo preflop his range is all the broadways, lots of PPs, all Ax hands, some connected hands, prolly like 67o+, all the SCs, some suited one gappers, prolly 57s+ or so.

This range doesn't hit the board texture as hard as you think, and it's a pretty small % of this range that'll call down and get to the river.

And I think I very rarely get to showdown, so I'm not really concerned about my own equity. If I hit an over, like I did in this hand, I'll be pretty happy about it, but otherwise I'm just tring to make him fold.

you range is bolded.... on flop your equity UP TO RIVER ( that means no more betting on turn and still is -EV when you bet 1/2 pot flop ) vs that is 35% and he is folding none and you have no fold equity on flop since you said he is calling all and its normal to call all cause he is a fcking fish so flop bet is wrong.

on turn vs the same range you drop to 20% equity and you have about 25% fold equity which is not enough since you bet again 1/2 pot ( that means he needs to fold 33% just to brake even) and vs his calling range on turn your equity drops to fcking 13% so even when you stack him you dont have not even a brake even play, not to mention making profit!


if after all math with YOUR RANGE you cant see that this is -EV or 0EV in the best case, then i have nothing more to add.... there is no way you will ever make money in this spot playing like this.


P.S.: i really am curious, if you are so sure that this is a +EV play, why the hell is the thread here? cause is you know , you are sure, you made a +EV play, this thread is equal to asking if its ok to shove AA pre!

[unclesteve]

you range is bolded.... on flop your equity UP TO RIVER ( that means no more betting on turn and still is -EV when you bet 1/2 pot flop ) vs that is 35% and he is folding none and you have no fold equity on flop since you said he is calling all and its normal to call all cause he is a fcking fish so flop bet is wrong.

on turn vs the same range you drop to 20% equity and you have about 25% fold equity which is not enough since you bet again 1/2 pot ( that means he needs to fold 33% just to brake even) and vs his calling range on turn your equity drops to fcking 13% so even when you stack him you dont have not even a brake even play, not to mention making profit!


if after all math with YOUR RANGE you cant see that this is -EV or 0EV in the best case, then i have nothing more to add.... there is no way you will ever make money in this spot playing like this.


P.S.: i really am curious, if you are so sure that this is a +EV play, why the hell is the thread here? cause is you know , you are sure, you made a +EV play, this thread is equal to asking if its ok to shove AA pre!

that range I assigned him was his preflop range, I don't think he continues with much of that which is why I like betting so much.

How did you get taht fold equity %?

Just because I'm not willing to accept wat every1 else says automatically does not mean i'm so sure this is a +ev play, I'm just promoting interesting discussion. This does not mean I'm incapable of changing my mind about my line if someone can convince me, nobody has yet.