10nl rush KK

[JoeHaw]

i'd always 4b given 10nl rush. i'd call in higher stakes sometimes but usually mostly 4b.

as played jam turn. he's def not folding like 77-99 with a spade or like if he floated AK AQ wif a bdfd and sometimes you get a complete drooler here who will show up with like Tx and not fold that either

No reads or stats unfortunatly :/ how often is he really 3betting 77-99 AK AQ AND calling my c/r on flop with it?

I feel like I beat 6 QQ's ~3 AK or AQ with a single spade (can't imagine more than 1 in 4 people calling with a bdfd and overs against a checkraise) and MAYBE 1 Tx, 77-99 and thats being generous. (and theres a lot of equity remaining for some of those hands)

Whereas I almost definetly lose to 1 TT, 1 JJ, 6 AA 1 AKss 1 AQss

like do you guys agree that im probably behind?

i get that i fucked up not fourbetting pre, but now basically im just confused as to exactly why its better to shove myself instead of trying to get to showdown without getting more money in even though I'll have to call if he does shove.

[couriermike]

why its better to shove myself instead of trying to get to showdown without getting more money in even though I'll have to call if he does shove.

That's a good question. Bluff or bluff-catcher? I doubt it matters too much here because he shouldn't have any bluffs in his range, or be willing to fold anything, at this point in the hand, except maybe AKo one spade and there's only 4 of those.

The question is, are you ahead of at least 25% of the hands he has here? If not, then you could muck (but you'd have to be really really sure).

I'd put him on a preflop range of AK and QQ+, possibly JJ, probably not TT or AQs.

you're way behind
1 AKss
6 AA
6 JJ if he has those, let's call it 3

you're getting freerolled by
1 pair of black kings

you're way ahead of
6 QQ
3 AKo no spades, let's call it 1 since he probably folds some otf

you're well ahead of
4 AKo one spade

So it looks good. You're beating 6 up to 11 combos, and you're beat by 10 maybe 13 combos.

Since he probably bets all his monsters and checks his 12 out draws, I'd prefer shoving here just to charge those draws.

[JoeHaw]

Since he probably bets all his monsters and checks his 12 out draws, I'd prefer shoving here just to charge those draws.

ahhh thats what i needed to hear. for some reason i was thinking just because i was behind his WHOLE range that if possible i should try and avoid putting money in the pot. I think this is kind of similar to that "test" thread.\

EDIT: and trust me, I believe you guys, but why is it better to 4bet KK? I take it I'll make more from stacking off with my slight edge against his range than just playing (oop, to be fair) against the range that I crush? That would make sense to me, especially since I don't end up getting stacks in later in the hand against more than JJ+ normally anyways, and I only get the Cbet from broadway combos. just want to clarify.