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NFD in 3bet flop against nit

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  1. #1
    It is a mistake to 3 bet AJs against this player. AJs has a lot of value in calling since this player will only continue to a 3 bet when he has you beat. You want to 3 bet a lot as a bluff and tighten your value 3 bet range against him (AK KK+) Id even flat QQ against SUPER nitty people. 3 bet nits as a bluff more often though with stuff like smaller suited aces, suited Kings, SC's and so forth.

    Against a looser player who will splash around in 3 bet pots with marginal hands (hands that AJs smokes) you can place stuff like TT-QQ, AJ+ into your value 3 bet range. Your bluffing range will stay roughly the same against this player but you'll want to 3bet less as a bluff and more for value.

    BTW your c bet size is fine here, I would bet around this much if I had AA or KK and this flop came down. On boards that are not as draw heavy tho I think it is just fine to 1/2 pot it in a 3 bet pot.

    Also, if you choose to bet the turn I think it needs to be a shove. But it really does not look like you have a lot of FE here.
    Last edited by cleanup.that; 05-24-2010 at 12:23 AM.
    You wanna die? Run on up on that black Seven forty-five.
  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by cleanup.that View Post
    It is a mistake to 3 bet AJs against this player. AJs has a lot of value in calling since this player will only continue to a 3 bet when he has you beat. You want to 3 bet a lot as a bluff and tighten your value 3 bet range against him (AK KK+) Id even flat QQ against SUPER nitty people. 3 bet nits as a bluff more often though with stuff like smaller suited aces, suited Kings, SC's and so forth.

    Against a looser player who will splash around in 3 bet pots with marginal hands (hands that AJs smokes) you can place stuff like TT-QQ, AJ+ into your value 3 bet range. Your bluffing range will stay roughly the same against this player but you'll want to 3bet less as a bluff and more for value.

    BTW your c bet size is fine here, I would bet around this much if I had AA or KK and this flop came down. On boards that are not as draw heavy tho I think it is just fine to 1/2 pot it in a 3 bet pot.

    Also, if you choose to bet the turn I think it needs to be a shove. But it really does not look like you have a lot of FE here.
    Great post, that clears up a lot. But what about 3betting AJs as a bluff/semibluff, since I did want to take it down pre and this player will fold to 3bets a lot of the time?
    Last edited by deucesomething; 05-24-2010 at 12:39 AM.
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by deucesomething View Post
    Great post, that clears up a lot. But what about 3betting AJs as a bluff/semibluff, since I did want to take it down pre and this player will fold to 3bets a lot of the time?
    If you want to turn AJs into a bluff you can choose to do that, but you are devaluing it in the process. I think there is too much value in having AJs in your calling range. If it is more profitable to call this player with AJs rather than 3 bet him with it why would you ever choose the inferior play?

    It is good to 3 bet bluff the nit, but don't do it with hands that have more value in calling. Would you ever 3 bet 77 as a bluff against this player instead of just calling? I would hope not, because 77 has a lot more value in your calling range than it does in your 3-bet bluffing range against tight players.

    Just remember you have your calling range. And then you have a 3 bet range that contains hands that you would be raising for value and hands that you would be raising as a bluff and these ranges change depending on the opponent type. Use the hands in these ranges accordingly and you'll profit more.
    Last edited by cleanup.that; 05-24-2010 at 01:21 AM.
    You wanna die? Run on up on that black Seven forty-five.
  4. #4
    3-bet is fine. AJs has equity against everything he flats. cleanup that's advice is a bit dated, to find out more read up on the pros and cons of polarized ranges.

    Post-flop is pretty meh. I think hero just 2/3rds it without thinking one street ahead. Stop doing this.

    As played, I'd just shove all-in on the turn. You have have some fold equity, but probably get called a lot. It's a really close between call and fold if he shoves so you may as well put in the money.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    3-bet is fine. AJs has equity against everything he flats. cleanup that's advice is a bit dated, to find out more read up on the pros and cons of polarized ranges.

    Post-flop is pretty meh. I think hero just 2/3rds it without thinking one street ahead. Stop doing this.

    As played, I'd just shove all-in on the turn. You have have some fold equity, but probably get called a lot. It's a really close between call and fold if he shoves so you may as well put in the money.
    Is this an article on ftr? I cannot find it
    You wanna die? Run on up on that black Seven forty-five.

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