Something I should say more often

[wufwugy]

Isn't the whole point of the protests that they are demanding to be an equal part of the same social/political/power system that they are affected by?

We seem to be talking past each other.

The current rendition (mid-lower tier BLM action) appears to have the primary stated goal of equal treatment. (though they are confused, but that's a different matter).

The historical and philosophical core (which is what I love about black liberation) is about the progeny of African slaves making their own system instead of being forced into the slavers system.

[wufwugy]

This entire issue of what we've been discussing is one of the things that could potentially get me to not support Trump in the election.

He, and conservatives, definitely do not support liberation from unjust political power.

My problem is that the Democrats are EVEN WORSE on this shit. Malcolm X was right. The white liberal nor the white conservative is friend to the black man. They both want to rule what they should not.

[MadMojoMonkey]

We seem to be talking past each other.

I'm trying to engage in good faith. I'm trying to not tell you what is right, but to understand what you believe is right and why.

If I'm not doing in a way that is both fair and inviting to you, then please help me be better about it.
I'm not always good with people skills, but I am dedicated to not letting that shut me down from trying to be better.

Can you help me understand what it is I'm doing that is making you think I'm talking past you?
I will do my best to change my style to continue the dialogue.

The current rendition (mid-lower tier BLM action) appears to have the primary stated goal of equal treatment. (though they are confused, but that's a different matter).

The historical and philosophical core (which is what I love about black liberation) is about the progeny of African slaves making their own system instead of being forced into the slavers system.

If the current rendition is moving toward equal treatment, then what makes you feel excluded?

[wufwugy]

I'm trying to engage in good faith. I'm trying to not tell you what is right, but to understand what you believe is right and why.

If I'm not doing in a way that is both fair and inviting to you, then please help me be better about it.
I'm not always good with people skills, but I am dedicated to not letting that shut me down from trying to be better.

Can you help me understand what it is I'm doing that is making you think I'm talking past you?
I will do my best to change my style to continue the dialogue.

If the current rendition is moving toward equal treatment, then what makes you feel excluded?

That's a good question.

In 2019, 41 unarmed people were killed by cops. 9 were black and 19 were white.

I only see mass protest when it's a black person killed by (white) cop. I'm told "black lives matter" and that if I don't tow the line, I'm a racist.

I see criminals and lowlifes be martyred. I see thought-leaders in the black community claim this will all be fixed when there is an end to white supremacy and when reparations are paid in full.

And I UNDERSTAND ALL OF IT.

I understand why black criminals are martyred but black on black crime is not. I understand what thought-leaders mean when they say "white", "supremacy", and "reparations". And I agree with all of it.

It's my agreement with black liberation and my understanding of it that leads to feeling excluded.

Using the older colorful language they did in Malcolm X's day: it's about correcting the injustice the white man (and culture) ruling over the black ex-slave. They did not choose to be chained up and shipped over here. They didn't choose to be forced into the white man's religions, the white man's social norms. They didn't choose the white man's system of laws. They have their own ideas and they want to create their own systems.

Thing is, I want that too, and I want it to not be about race anymore. I want liberation from these unjust laws too.

We are all brothers in America. I too would get brutalized by the Law if I refused to do what they told me.

The most powerful ally Black America has is the White America that also wants freedom from injustice perpetrated by "authorities" we do not consent to.

But as long as it's about black lives relative to white lives, we aren't getting there.

[MadMojoMonkey]

That's a good question.

In 2019, 41 unarmed people were killed by cops. 9 were black and 19 were white.

I didn't find the source on your data. I don't see statistics for police killing unarmed people, but I can find that police killed over 1,000 people and a statement that says 60% were unarmed and not committing a violent crime.

If we just look at your numbers, it seems like you're saying that when ( 9 / 41 = ) 21% of police killings affect 13% of the population, that's somehow less than should be expected. I don't see why that's not 50% more than expected.

Though, if you share your data source, that could clear up what the statistic actually means.

[wufwugy]

I didn't find the source on your data.

I pulled it from historian/professor Thaddeus Russell. The source appears to be Washington Post's database, but that's behind a paywall. It might be possible to go one-by-one through their list of 1,003 killed by cops to find the number.

If we just look at your numbers, it seems like you're saying that when ( 9 / 41 = ) 21% of police killings affect 13% of the population, that's somehow less than should be expected. I don't see why that's not 50% more than expected.

I am not saying that. I believe black people are treated differently by the police than white people. But I don't believe the data supports (1) that the cause is unknown-by-us racist thoughts, and (2) that cops kill black people more unjustly than others.

I also don't want to get into this too hard (but thank you for asking) because non-experimental data is sooooo hard to talk about wisely. Like that which is accredited to Ronald Coase: "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess."

But I DID mention data here because you smartly asked me for my feelings. My feelings are not convinced by the claims cops act upon racist thoughts and unjustly kill black people more than others. I am, however, extremely convinced that inequality of treatment exists elsewhere.

Patrice O'Neal, for example, once told about how he and several other black kids were railroaded into prison from a white girl and a white judge and jury. And I believe every single word of his story.

[Poopadoop]

Churchill statue defaced.