**** Elections thread *****

[OngBonga]

This is so disingenuous as to be funny. The SNP was not the only party in Scotland that supported Remain.

Fair point.

What do you assess as being most likely? I'm betting on b) myself, followed by a) and c) seems least likely.

You missed "no deal".

Half of the general population has a less than average IQ. I also wouldn't be surprised to find that in uncontested seats, the average IQ of a voter is lower.

This is how the median works, not the mean. Usually, when people refer to the average, it's the mean. I have no idea if the mean IQ is equal to, higher or lower than the median, but simply saying "half the population has a below average IQ" is probably inaccurate, at least if we're talking about the mean, which is the best measure of "average".

But even so, there's no reason to think that stupid people vote Tory and clever people vote Labour. Some people would argue the opposite is true, because the high IQ folk are generally well off, and Tory policy tends to favour the rich and successful. I'd be inclined to think that the low achievers are more likely to vote Labour.

Exactly. Or if the people had the sense to vote tactically. Either one would have worked.

It's very much debatable that Labour could have won if the Libs stood aside, but certainly it would have been closer. Between Labour and Libs, they just about collected more votes than the Tories. But that doesn't mean more seats than the Tories, even if literally every Lib supporter voted Labour.

The problem is though, a lot of Lib voters wouldn't have voted Corbyn. This is as much a rejection of his economic policy as it is his Brexit policy. The electorate do not trust Corbyn, people actuallt trust Boris more. That's a damning indictment.

1. Citation needed.

Seriously? You really think that most folk prefer a "fuck it stay at home" attitude to a "draw a penis on your ballot" one? This forum is not the only place I discuss politics. There's Twitter and Facebook too. I started off this election saying I was probably going to stay at home, and most people who responded to me said at least go and spoil your ballot. I thought about it and agreed it was better.

Most people on social media that I have seen discuss the issue of apathy prefer a spoiled ballot to staying at home. If you don't believe me, fine.

2. See above about what I think about asking dumb people's opinions.

You sure like to call people dumb for disagreeing with you. Might I ask... what's your IQ?

[QUOTE]I get that you think it's a kind of protest but seems there's more articulate ways to voice your protest than spoiling a ballot./QUOTE]

Like what? Start a blog? If I'd stayed at home, you'd probably be laughing, saying I should have spoiled my ballot. I suspect you're just being "opposite" here for the sake of argument. I fail to see how you can feel strongly about this.

An oxymoron. You can't care enough to spoil a ballot at the same time as being too lazy to care.

What? It's not that I'm too lazy to care, quite the opposite in fact. If I didn't care, I wouldn't talk about politics. I used the term "lazy" in the context of staying at home instead of spoiling ballot, it has nothing to do with caring. If I didn't care, then I'd stay at home.

It may shock you to hear this, but I don't usually vote.

Nor do I. I've voted once in a GE, and once in a referendum. I've spoiled my ballot once, that was last week.

I'm not going to waste my time going to the polls and filling out a ballot just so my side can lose by 49 999 votes rather thann 50 000.

Fair enough, but if this is how you feel, don't mock people for spoiling their ballot. There was a party on your ballot that you could vote for, that suits your ideology. Yet you couldn't be bothered because "my vote doesn't count". Meanwhile, there's nobody I can vote for, but I still took a walk, still did my bit, even if my spoiled ballot means fuck all. I'm not going to tell you that you should vote, that your vote means something, because it's bollocks. But don't tell me to stay at home when I want to draw a dick on my ballot.

There's been no Brexits in those 10 years.

Oh right, you think we'll have our benefits docked when we leave the EU.

I'll keep you posted on that.

I thought you were going to stop being sarcastic?

No, I asked you to be more civil. But then you called me a "math guy" and said "blah blah blah fish" so I figured I'd be a sarcastic twat too. Besides, I don't mind a bit of sarcasm, it's just your tone of contempt when engaging with me is relentless. I do try to have civil conversations with you, but you don't make it easy.

[Poopadoop]

You missed "no deal".

I include that under "shitty deal"

This is how the median works, not the mean. Usually, when people refer to the average, it's the mean. I have no idea if the mean IQ is equal to, higher or lower than the median, but simply saying "half the population has a below average IQ" is probably inaccurate, at least if we're talking about the mean, which is the best measure of "average".

In a normal distribution, the mean = the median = the mode. IQ is normally distributed. So yes, half the people are below average IQ. I guess a little less than half since some people will have an IQ of exactly 100, but I'm not overly enthusiastic about average either.

But even so, there's no reason to think that stupid people vote Tory and clever people vote Labour. Some people would argue the opposite is true, because the high IQ folk are generally well off, and Tory policy tends to favour the rich and successful. I'd be inclined to think that the low achievers are more likely to vote Labour.

Theres' research to show that in the US, conservatives are 20 IQ points lower on average than liberals. No reason to think it differs in the UK, or anywhere else. It could though.

It's very much debatable that Labour could have won if the Libs stood aside, but certainly it would have been closer. Between Labour and Libs, they just about collected more votes than the Tories. But that doesn't mean more seats than the Tories, even if literally every Lib supporter voted Labour.

It's an academic question, but I'm pretty sure if you counted it up, the Lib+Labour votes combined in each seat would have won more seats than Tories.

The problem is though, a lot of Lib voters wouldn't have voted Corbyn. This is as much a rejection of his economic policy as it is his Brexit policy. The electorate do not trust Corbyn, people actuallt trust Boris more. That's a damning indictment.

You don't know why people vote for who they vote for that specifically.

Seriously? You really think that most folk prefer a "fuck it stay at home" attitude to a "draw a penis on your ballot" one?

You misunderstand me. I think it's irrelevant what most people think and also you have no way of knowing what they think unless you actually have some research to back it up.

This forum is not the only place I discuss politics. There's Twitter and Facebook too. I started off this election saying I was probably going to stay at home, and most people who responded to me said at least go and spoil your ballot. I thought about it and agreed it was better.

What was the point of doing that? Do you think drawing a penis on a ballot affects the government? It's not like someone at the polling station counts penises on ballots and if it reaches a certain value the government has to debate it in parliament. And what is the difference between 1000 spoiled ballots and 1001? And if there is a difference (which I assert there isn't), is it enough of a difference to make it worth your time? I doubt it.

Most people on social media that I have seen discuss the issue of apathy prefer a spoiled ballot to staying at home. If you don't believe me, fine.

yeah, your sample is a bit biased if that's the group you polled as 'most people'.

You sure like to call people dumb for disagreeing with you. Might I ask... what's your IQ?

Don't know, probably above average though given the grades I got in school and the job I ended up with.

Like what? Start a blog? If I'd stayed at home, you'd probably be laughing, saying I should have spoiled my ballot.

I guarantee you I would never tell someone it's a good use of their time to spoil their ballot.

I suspect you're just being "opposite" here for the sake of argument. I fail to see how you can feel strongly about this.

I don't feel strongly about it. I just think spoiling your ballot is ridiculous, that's all. You don't have to agree.

What? It's not that I'm too lazy to care, quite the opposite in fact. If I didn't care, I wouldn't talk about politics. I used the term "lazy" in the context of staying at home instead of spoiling ballot, it has nothing to do with caring. If I didn't care, then I'd stay at home.

But your action has absolutely zero impact on the outcome. Staying at home has zero impact as well, but costs you nothing.

Nor do I. I've voted once in a GE, and once in a referendum. I've spoiled my ballot once, that was last week.

Can I ask what your reasons are for not usually voting?

Fair enough, but if this is how you feel, don't mock people for spoiling their ballot.

I'm mocking the behaviour, not the people (or at least not directly). Smart people can do dumb things sometimes, myself included.

I know some people think it's a good use of their time, I just don't see it.

There was a party on your ballot that you could vote for, that suits your ideology. Yet you couldn't be bothered because "my vote doesn't count".

This is what I don't understand about people; why so many feel it's necessary to waste your time when your vote is not going to make a difference. Like I said, it doesn't matter one iota whether my side wins/loses by 50 000, 49 999 or 50 001. It just doesn't. So what is the point of trudging somewhere to queue up and tick a box that effectively does nothing? What does this accomplish?

Meanwhile, there's nobody I can vote for, but I still took a walk, still did my bit,

"Did your bit"? What does that mean? You went and added a number to a tally that makes absolutely no difference in the outcome of the election? Is that how you see your role in democracy?

don't tell me to stay at home when I want to draw a dick on my ballot.

Is this actually what you did? That seems a bit juvenile if true.

Oh right, you think we'll have our benefits docked when we leave the EU.

I'll keep you posted on that.

Are you guaranteed a cost of living increase every year? 'Cause that coming inflation is going to sting otherwise.

[Poopadoop]

Here's an idea for how to fix democracy. Not sure how well it would work, haven't given it much thought, but seems better than what we have now.

https://www.ted.com/talks/brett_henn...eople#t-692414

[OngBonga]

Here's an idea for how to fix democracy. Not sure how well it would work, haven't given it much thought, but seems better than what we have now.

Ok you offered an alternative. I'll respond to this when I've watched it, maybe later.