*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[OngBonga]

Thanks. And yeah, from your perspective it may be protecting or something else, but from the other person's view it's a sort of punishment.

Why is it punishment? If I try to move to New Zealand, and they say I'm useless to them so I can stay in the UK, well I'm not being punsihed by New Zealand. I have no God-given right to go where the hell I like on the planet. I mean, if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your logic, it seems so.

[BananaStand]

if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your leftist's logic, it seems so.

Fixed your post

[Savy]

Why is it punishment? If I try to move to New Zealand, and they say I'm useless to them so I can stay in the UK, well I'm not being punsihed by New Zealand. I have no God-given right to go where the hell I like on the planet. I mean, if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your logic, it seems so.

Why don't you? It makes no sense to me that you can't go where you want but other people can dictate where you can and can't go.

[BananaStand]

Why don't you? It makes no sense to me that you can't go where you want but other people can dictate where you can and can't go.

It really bothers me that you're an educator.

If you expect a government to provide a sufficient infrastructure to maintain an economy, and you expect a government to maintain law and order to the degree that it ensures a fair market place........then OBVIOUSLY you care about who is coming into your country, and how many.

[Savy]

It really bothers me that you're an educator.

If you expect a government to provide a sufficient infrastructure to maintain an economy, and you expect a government to maintain law and order to the degree that it ensures a fair market place........then OBVIOUSLY you care about who is coming into your country, and how many.

Yep we need government to do all of those things. God forbid they didn't.

[OngBonga]

Why don't you? It makes no sense to me that you can't go where you want but other people can dictate where you can and can't go.

It makes no sense to you? Thing is, in the case of New Zealand, the NZ govt have a resposibility to provide for those already there. That's kind of their job, to ensure their population is educated, healthy as has the neccessary infrastrusture to work. Why should they just let me go there to live? What does New Zealand owe me? I'll tell you what... exactly the same amount that the UK owes people from outside of these shores.

I can't go to live in NZ because I don't have any moeny and I don't have a job to go to. Is it fair? Of course it is. If they have a responsibility to me, then they have the same responsibility to another 7 billion people.

[Savy]

It makes no sense to you? Thing is, in the case of New Zealand, the NZ govt have a resposibility to provide for those already there. That's kind of their job, to ensure their population is educated, healthy as has the neccessary infrastrusture to work. Why should they just let me go there to live? What does New Zealand owe me? I'll tell you what... exactly the same amount that the UK owes people from outside of these shores.

I can't go to live in NZ because I don't have any moeny and I don't have a job to go to. Is it fair? Of course it is. If they have a responsibility to me, then they have the same responsibility to another 7 billion people.

The only thing with this is that you don't just want to go to NZ you want NZ to look after you they are different things.

Also it's very easy to argue that the UK has a larger obligation to fairly large parts of the world compared to what NZ does to you lol.

[BananaStand]

people from outside of these shores.

Is that an actual British expression?

"these shores"?

You're an island, you have ONE shore

[CoccoBill]

Why is it punishment? If I try to move to New Zealand, and they say I'm useless to them so I can stay in the UK, well I'm not being punsihed by New Zealand. I have no God-given right to go where the hell I like on the planet. I mean, if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your logic, it seems so.

I used the word punishment just as a general sentiment (crime and punishment), but I don't see why it wouldn't work here. Without a criminal record you're able to migrate to NZ if you qualified on the rest of the immigration criteria, right? The "punishment" for having one is denied access. A punishment by definition is "a penalty inflicted as retribution for an offence". I don't think that's such a leap in semantics. The demand for a $100 is obviously a different issue, it isn't a case where you'd be eligible for that money without having done an offence.

[OngBonga]

The demand for a $100 is obviously a different issue, it isn't a case where you'd be eligible for that money without having done an offence.

Eligble? No one is automatically "eligible" to enter another nation. Rights are not being taken away from declined migrants. On the contrary, rights are granted to accepted migrants.

[BananaStand]

A punishment by definition is "a penalty inflicted as retribution for an offence".

It's like you don't even know how entitled your thinking really is. Read what you just wrote there. Think about what each word actually means. Now apply that to the context of this conversation, and tell me how you're making any damn sense.

Go look up the word "penalty".

Being denied an unearned privilege is NOT a penalty.

It's this kind of "the world owes me" thinking that's driving Scandinavia's economy into the sewer.

[OngBonga]

But all of this is of course meaningless to the discussion, as you well know. It is not ok to e.g. deny a person access to a country based on their beliefs, whether you call that a punishment or not.

You called it a punishment, and yes it is perfectly acceptable to deny someone entry for any reason whatsoever. We have no obligation in the first place. There is no entitlement. We should do what New Zealand does and only accept people who are of net benefit to the receiving state.