2NL: Checkraised On Turn Holding KK

[BigSlickBaby]

The fact he's bluff jammed flops and turns before, but raising smaller this time around seems concerning. I likely call turn in play and assess river based on villain's sizing, but not folding at all if the river is 6, 7 or K.

We have a lot of hands better than KK that can call turn and potentially river against a maniac though, so we should bare that in mind. Calling down against a maniac with an example like this is great for beginning to "solve" a hand from the angle of being unexploitable i.e. if I bet flop and turn with x number of combos, what do I mathematically need to call versus a turn raise. Then work out where KK fits into that, including on different rivers facing a jam. That will take you a while to figure out though.

I either had to jam that turn or fold because calling would have been terrible. I can't call that turn and then fold the river so it's fit or fold as played. That was the other reason I folded. I didn't want to throw my stack in the middle with roughly ~53% equity when this guy would probably just donate his money to me in a few hands anyway.

[Savy]

I either had to jam that turn or fold because calling would have been terrible. I can't call that turn and then fold the river so it's fit or fold as played. That was the other reason I folded. I didn't want to throw my stack in the middle with roughly ~53% equity when this guy would probably just donate his money to me in a few hands anyway.

This logic is very bad. As a rule never turn down a profitable situation because you think a more profitable situation is on it's way. There are exceptions to this but they are very rare and you need to know and understand them before you implement them.

[BigSlickBaby]

This logic is very bad. As a rule never turn down a profitable situation because you think a more profitable situation is on it's way. There are exceptions to this but they are very rare and you need to know and understand them before you implement them.

I hear you on this. I actually reminded myself that one hand has nothing to do with a hypothetical hand coming in the future but with the clock ticking and having to make a decision to shove/fold, I just felt very comfortable with this fold at that time. That said, of course it's better to get two stacks instead of one. I've started to look at the size of a stack in bb's and not $$ more this month and it's helped in some ways. 100 bbs in 1 hand is just an incredible jolt to the winrate if you're already in the process of plugging leaks. Some of the PS.com videos have taught me how to boost my winrate by scooping up numerous small pots from certain types of players over time and then right - finally hitting something like one of the KK hands in this thread and just skyrocketing your bbs/100.

[The Bean Counter]

This logic is very bad. As a rule never turn down a profitable situation because you think a more profitable situation is on it's way. There are exceptions to this but they are very rare and you need to know and understand them before you implement them.

Exactly. There's same thing to be said in cash games for taking a marginal gamble against a fish if you can bust him before the others do. Quite often you get the dream scenario where the fish busts in 5 minutes and keeps tilt reloading and open jamming. I try not to think too much at the point about what their degen status is doing for the rest of their life. It's one of the reasons I don't enjoy live poker - you get to see it first hand.

You should also be happy to get it in 50:50 when there's already money in the pot every single time, barring absurd rake and a tiny bankroll.

PS: jamming or folding arent the only options. You could argue that jamming the nut straight would be bad unless you're 100% confident he isn't bluffing or capable of folding. You'll also want to call the turn raise with your big draws, pair plus draws, maybe sets, etc. Calling turn and folding river would be fine with some part of that turn calling range.

PPS: don't be scared of getting it in behind sometimes for 100bb+. It's inevitable and playing good poker will make that necessary sometimes.

[OngBonga]

Yeah I agree there's reasons why we could just call the turn. Seeing a river here with 2:1 pot odds and nearly 100bb behind is not bad considering we're drawing pretty well to beat JT (8 outs), and considering he can be overplaying pair+draw combos like J9. I think folding is premature here. Sure, we're dead to 89, and drawing thin vs sets, but these hands should be raising flop, especially aggro donks like this guy.

His range seems to me precisely JT or bluffs. Calling turn might actually be the best option here. We can clean him out when the board pairs to the 6 or 7, or when we hit a king, and we can just call any reasonable river bet to bust his bluffs and overplayed Jx. We can still fold river if he overbets.