**** Elections thread *****

[Poopadoop]

http://www.pdf.org/en/diagnosis

:^)

That would be pertinent if the question was whether she had just developed PD, certainly. But assuming she was already diagnosed, she would be having treatment with l-dopa. This treatment is not a cure but a way to manage the disease by alleviating symptoms. Not all symptoms appear in all patients. That's why she doesn't have a visible tremor, for example.

With l-dopa, there will be 'on' times when she is fine and 'off' times when she is not fine, because the drug works by increasing dopamine in the brain and the proper dose is difficult to maintain given the natural fluctuations in dopamine in the brain and the disease's progression. As a consequence the PD patient will tend to experience an 'on' state and and 'off' state while on l-dopa. When she is in 'on' state she can appear relatively normal. When she is in an 'off' state she can have symptoms. The 'on' states and 'off' states are unpredictable and can alternate within a single day.

If she experienced an 'off' state at the memorial, she could have had trouble standing up and could have also had an episode of 'freezing'. The latter can lead to falls. These would be distinct from the falls of a person who is 'passing out', as she would retain consciousness but lose control of her body.

[a500lbgorilla]

That would be pertinent if the question was whether she had just developed PD, certainly. But assuming she was already diagnosed

Which is an enormous assumption.

It's easy to connect dots, dummy, the difficult part is knowing if you've connected the right dots.

[Poopadoop]

It's easy to connect dots, dummy, the difficult part is knowing if you've connected the right dots.

Lol, ok thanks. I'll work on improving that part of my mental life.

[a500lbgorilla]

I really can't be bothered to explain it to you further cause it's obvious you know nothing and you're happy that way.

You've explained it entirely beyond your explanations worth.

You ain't know if step 1 was correct, but you managed to walk to the fucking moon with your conclusions upon conclusions.

Not only did you assume the diagnosis, you assumed the treatment, you assumed the treatments effects, and you've tied them into that one video you saw on the internet once.

Because you're dumb.

[wufwugy]

It is overwhelmingly likely the case, though.

edit, maybe I don't follow you. It could be evaluated by real doctors, and not by us, yes.

it can be evaluated by all. doctors are unique in that theyre the only with authority to diagnose, not the only with authority to make any sort of critical review. ive seen some doctors say it could be pd and others say they dont think it is.

[a500lbgorilla]

Lol, ok thanks. I'll work on improving that part of my mental life.

I don't think you will, but you're welcome.

[Poopadoop]

She's been stumbling.

Therefore, she has muscle control issues.

She may also has issues with losing consciousness, in which case, Parkinson's is likely.

She could have Parkinson's.

You think these things because you are dumb.

I said if she was losing consciousness that would be a sign of a blood circulation disorder, not PD.

And yes, I am very dumb. Please teach me more about PD as you read up on it on the web.

[wufwugy]

Trump will be for America what Dueterte is for the Philippines.

https://www.google.com/search?q=duet...utf-8&oe=utf-8

What exactly do you think Trump will do?

[wufwugy]

Cigarette Butt has returned. I missed him.

[a500lbgorilla]

I said if she was losing consciousness that would be a sign of a blood circulation disorder, not PD.

And yes, I am very dumb. Please teach me more about PD as you read up on it on the web.

Again, you don't even know the symptom, and you're willing to diagnose the disorder.

You're not dumb because you don't understand medicine, you're dumb because you think you know medicine well enough to diagnose Hillary Clinton from afar, Dummy.

[wufwugy]

you're willing to diagnose the disorder.

Diagnosis is not what's going on here.

[a500lbgorilla]

What exactly do you think Trump will do?

Dueterte is doing an 'inward focusing' thing with the Philippines right now. He was elected on the platform that he would legit murder all of the problems and, since being elected, he's been murdering the problems. He, today, has moved to eject America from his nation.

And he's overwhelmingly popular there.

I think it's an apt parallel. An enormous personality that believes in his work has been making waves in a country by putting his country first. Whatever comes is interesting to follow.

[a500lbgorilla]

Diagnosis is not what's going on here.

Oh no, no one's been saying Hillary may have Parkinson's?

[wufwugy]

Oh no, no one's been saying Hillary may have Parkinson's?

That's not diagnosis.

[a500lbgorilla]

don't do this

define diagnosis

the identification of the nature of an illness or other problem by examination of the symptoms.

oh look

[wufwugy]

Dueterte is doing an 'inward focusing' thing with the Philippines right now. He was elected on the platform that he would legit murder all of the problems and, since being elected, he's been murdering the problems. He, today, has moved to eject America from his nation.

And he's overwhelmingly popular there.

I think it's an apt parallel. An enormous personality that believes in his work has been making waves in a country by putting his country first. Whatever comes is interesting to follow.

The parallel is that somebody does what they said they would do once in office.

What do you think Trump will do?

[a500lbgorilla]

The parallel is that somebody does what they said they would do once in office.

What do you think Trump will do?

No, the parallel is "Make My Country Great Again" by whatever means necessary.

[wufwugy]

don't do this

define diagnosis

the identification of the nature of an illness or other problem by examination of the symptoms.

oh look

Jumping back and forth between medical and non-medical meaning doesn't help.

What we're not doing: diagnosing within the context of medical diagnosing. What we are doing: speculating the same way is standard for all other things.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah, well, that's the fun of the english language. I can slide between the two ideas with just one word.

[wufwugy]

No, the parallel is "Make My Country Great Again" by whatever means necessary.

There is nothing inherently wrong with MAGA.

You added "by whatever means necessary."

[a500lbgorilla]

Cigarette Butt has returned. I missed him.

PS I don't.

[wufwugy]

Yeah, well, that's the fun of the english language. I can slide between the two ideas with just one word.

"Diagnosis" within medical context has a specific meaning different than the colloquial meaning.

[a500lbgorilla]

There is nothing inherently wrong with MAGA.

You added "by whatever means necessary."

And he's very popular. I'm not making a judgement call. I'm more curious about it.

[wufwugy]

He was fun for ww

[wufwugy]

And he's very popular. I'm not making a judgement call. I'm more curious about it.

I'm a big fan of Americanism.

Not all values are good, but when your values are good, do more of them.

[a500lbgorilla]

nah, it put me too outside of things

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm a big fan of Americanism.

Not all values are good, but when your values are good, do more of them.

And how many Philippines would sing the good graces of Phillippenism (or whatever they consider it) in the wake of Dueterte?

How many Chinese believe in the superior nature of growing China-ism.

Or what about the Turks and their sense of doing it right thanks to Ergodan?

I believe in Americaism, but I'm also American.

[Poopadoop]

Haha, ok man I'm really really dumb. So let me put this all together for you in one post so you can just misquote that from now on.

This is not a medical diagnosis. In MY opinion, HRC likely has a serious brain disorder. The most plausible candidate is Parkinson's which may or may not be complicated by other brain issues.

Evidence for a motor disorder that may or may not be a consequence of PD:
1. abnormal motor reactions to strong stimuli such as head moving back and forth several times, eyes bugging out, etc.
2. previous history of blood clot in the brain which increases the likelihood of future injuries in the brain

Evidence that is specifically consistent with PD:
1. lack of motor coordination on several occasions
2. falls on several occasions
3. onset/offset of symptoms consistent with 'on' and 'off' states typical of treatment with l-dopa.
4. persistent coughing fits over years that could be caused by dysphagia - this could also have other causes such as throat problems
5. wearing tinted sunglasses that can be used to treat PD

Stuff that IS NOT in my opinion evidence for a brain disorder
1. Stopping and staring at an audience member for a few seconds.
2. A guy on her secret service team carrying a small cylindrical-shaped item.
3. Needing help going up stairs (unless it is happening on a consistent basis).
4. Forgetting what she was about to say (unless it happens frequently).
5. Having a lesion on her tongue.
6. Having a body double.
7. Being a target of conspiracy theorists.

Have fun.

[a500lbgorilla]

Have fun.

I won't. Thanks.

[wufwugy]

And how many Philippines would sing the good graces of Phillippenism (or whatever they consider it) in the wake of Dueterte?

How many Chinese believe in the superior nature of growing China-ism.

Or what about the Turks and their sense of doing it right thanks to Ergodan?

They're also wrong.

I have come to my Americanism advocacy through years of study. Not every element of Americanism is good, but it has done tremendous good for the world in its push of liberty, individualism, humanism, limited government, separation of church and state, reason, and free market capitalism.

Nationalism is a weapon that has been used for bad. But if it wasn't for American (and British) nationalism, there'd be a shitload more bad in the world.

[a500lbgorilla]

They're also wrong.

I have come to my Americanism advocacy through years of study. Not every element of Americanism is good, but it has done tremendous good for the world in its push of liberty, individualism, humanism, limited government, separation of church and state, reason, and free market capitalism.

Nationalism is a weapon that has been used for bad. But if it wasn't for American (and British) nationalism, there'd be a shitload more bad in the world.

The Chinese love their government. China has a long and deep history of fatherly oversight.

China has been, for nearly all of human history, the center of civilization and the pearl of the world. And as the world matures through the industrial age, and enters whatever comes next, China will return to its rightful place.

To say that Chinese are wrong in the opinion that their gov't is better than ours is a judgement call.

[wufwugy]

The Chinese love their government. China has a long and deep history of fatherly oversight.

China has been, for nearly all of human history, the center of civilization and the pearl of the world. And as the world matures through the industrial age, and enters whatever comes next, China will return to its rightful place.

To say that Chinese are wrong in the opinion that their gov't is better than ours is a judgement call.

China embraced socialism and violence instead of the Enlightenment and restraint, terminating most of what it once had. While some of Chinese culture was not totally extinguished and there remain some valuable elements that can be brought to the table, it is in their insurgent support for some Enlightenment values that has led to the nation's resurgence. Americanism greatly benefits China. Hopefully China will one day do so well as to embrace these values even more than America.

Also it isn't just that the American government is better, but that the American zeitgeist is better. Granted, China does appear to be rapidly transforming its zeitgeist.

[wufwugy]

lolnado

[wufwugy]

second best thug life

[OngBonga]

Yeah, well, that's the fun of the english language. I can slide between the two ideas with just one word.

Like media.

[Poopadoop]

That is one hell of a long bout of pneumonia. Note how neither the water or lozenges clear it up, and her voice is cracked at times. That's because it's in her windpipe and affecting her vocal chords, not her esophagus.



ya, she's fine.

[OngBonga]

You're dumb because rilla diagrees with you. Armchair doctors indeed.

I cough like that when the bong bites back.

[Poopadoop]

Have you tried putting a lozenge in your windpipe? Or how about in your bong?

[OngBonga]

No but I do have a mountain of a black dude who shadows me with an epi-pen.

Except when I'm leaving my family's house shortly after a health scare.

[Poopadoop]

No but I do have a mountain of a black dude who shadows me with an epi-pen.

Except when I'm leaving my family's house shortly after a health scare.

Since when is collapsing and being dragged into a van a health scare? I do that all the time and I don't even own a van. No-one ever drives me to the hospital either. All normal.

[OngBonga]

The epi-pen is for recreational use, by the way.

[wufwugy]

I dearly want to believe the body double theory.

[Poopadoop]

I not only want to believe it, but I want to see it exposed in some indisputable, undeniably clear way such as the disguise being suddenly, publicly compromised to reveal it's absolutely a completely different person that is definitely not Hillary. I then want a DNA test to prove it's not Hillary.

[wufwugy]

That would be nice, but it won't happen due to the media bias. No channels would cover it except Fox, but even Fox would probably not much cover something that devastating. Fox is sorta being torn asunder as its owners are hardcore globalists who hate Trump, yet they're also very anti-Democrat.

Granted, the importance of the mainstream media is, well, probably very overstated. I still think the MSM moves the needle for sure, but a colossal amount of people get news from the internet compared to just a few years ago. Juanita Broaddrick (one of Rapin' Bill's victims) said something in her AMA that kinda opened my eyes. She said that as bad as the media is today, it was far worse in the 90s. The MSM has been in bed with politicians from day 1, but today we have avenues to discover the lies and corruption, while back then we just didn't.

[Savy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37369615

I've already sent this thread to the bbc so that this can be exposed as the huge scam it is.

[Poopadoop]

You got me. A politician's doctor would never lie about their health... Oh wait.

"He was so terrified of his medical conditions being known that in the 1960 fight for the Democratic nomination, Lyndon Johnson aides aired the fact that Kennedy had Addison's disease, and the Kennedy campaign flatly denied it, Dallek said. His doctors later published a letter saying his health was excellent. "

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125593&page=1

[Poopadoop]

Honestly though, what do you think her doctor is going to say if she's really sick? "You know what? I work for Hillary and the democrats, they put me in a nice home and give me all kinds of perks. And that's all going to end, and they're probably going to make life miserable for me and my family if I tell the truth and cost them the election, but screw it. That woman is a mess and here's why..."

[wufwugy]

She looks healthy to two groups of people: shills and those who haven't seen much of her. For example, there is nothing new about the hacking. I've watched her live have such incredible hacking fits that I had to turn it off. She's had many of these. Back before discussing her health was a trend, I thought maybe it was heart disease or something. That amount of coughing is crazy.

[Savy]

Honestly though, what do you think her doctor is going to say if she's really sick? "You know what? I work for Hillary and the democrats, they put me in a nice home and give me all kinds of perks. And that's all going to end, and they're probably going to make life miserable for me and my family if I tell the truth and cost them the election, but screw it. That woman is a mess and here's why..."

No idea why you doubted my sincerity. I'd expect a bbc reporter to pm you before the end of the night.

[a500lbgorilla]

That is one hell of a long bout of pneumonia. Note how neither the water or lozenges clear it up, and her voice is cracked at times. That's because it's in her windpipe and affecting her vocal chords, not her esophagus.



ya, she's fine.

Sporadic bouts of coughing is also part of your differential diagnosis of Parkinson's?

If anyone has ever called you dumb, shame on them. You're something else entirely.

[a500lbgorilla]

Plus, why not focus on the real meat?



Grandmother looks sickly? Who gives a fuck.

Old allies hate her? Now we're talking.

[Poopadoop]

Sporadic bouts of coughing is also part of your differential diagnosis of Parkinson's?

It's consistent with a myriad of health issues, PD is only one of them.

If anyone has ever called you dumb, shame on them. You're something else entirely.

I'm sorry you insist on making this personal. But you're making yourself look bad, not me.

[a500lbgorilla]

Sure, sure.

[Poopadoop]

No idea why you doubted my sincerity. I'd expect a bbc reporter to pm you before the end of the night.

I know exactly what you meant, and I don't begrudge you it. I just have a different opinion on the matter.

[a500lbgorilla]

It's consistent with a myriad of health issues, PD is only one of them.

How many rare diseases does she have?

And are these in addition to her heart disease and her menopausal insomnia and psychosis? The drugs she needs to sleep are all known to exacerbate seizures, heart diseases, and psychosis after all. How else do you explain how she reacted to 3 people asking her a question at the same time? Feigning shock and confusion? Highly unlikely, considering she's falling apart at the seams...

[Poopadoop]

How many rare diseases does she have?

And are these in addition to her heart disease and her menopausal insomnia and psychosis? The drugs she needs to sleep are all known to exacerbate seizures, heart diseases, and psychosis after all. How else do you explain how she reacted to 3 people asking her a question at the same time? Feigning shock and confusion? Highly unlikely, considering she's falling apart at the seams...

I never referred to any other things besides brain disorder. I know about the brain because I did my degree in neuroscience and I publish papers and lecture on brain damage. That's what got me interested in her health in the first place. If all she had were coughing fits I wouldn't be bothered in trying to understand what caused them because I'm not an ear, nose and throat specialist. I would still think she had a brain disorder even if she weren't coughing a lot; the fact that she is just strengthens my conviction because it's consistent with her constellation of neurological symptoms.

As for her reaction to the interviewers, one could argue that it's being done in a comical way, and I can see why a layperson might think that as most people don't have a good idea of what a person with neurological problems looks like, as people with those kinds of issues don't normally get a lot of public exposure.

However, as someone who's been around people with brain damage, it's my view there are signs in her movements that suggest her brain is unable to process a large amount of sudden stimulation properly and the consequence is an exaggerated motor response. The important thing in my eyes is that it's exaggerated. This is a sign the brain is not working properly. Whether it's a seizure or a symptom of PD or both is not the important thing to me. What's important is that her movements are consistent with someone with brain damage affecting their motor system.

Couple that with the similar type of exaggerated response to the fireworks/balloon drop at the DNC (where there's no reason to think she was trying to be funny) and the evidence is even stronger imo.

[Poopadoop]

And btw, Parkinson's (if that's what it is) is not rare. About 1 million people in the US have it fwiw.

[JKDS]

What other reasons exist for each of the observed signs? Isn't it true that these reasons are each incredibly common? Given parkinsons is apparently in only 0.3% of the US population, isn't it less likely than each of the common other explanations?

Coughing, for example, could easily be a sign of her screaming at every rally and debate. Blue sunglasses are sold at every sunglass store. Old people have muscle and light sensitivity. These are all super common things

[Poopadoop]

What other reasons exist for each of the observed signs? Isn't it true that these reasons are each incredibly common? Given parkinsons is apparently in only 0.3% of the US population, isn't it less likely than each of the common other explanations?

Coughing, for example, could easily be a sign of her screaming at every rally and debate. Blue sunglasses are sold at every sunglass store. Old people have muscle and light sensitivity. These are all super common things

If we're talking specifically about her demographic of white women 65-70 it's almost certainly higher than 0.3% but you're right it isn't rampant by any means. And as 'rilla correctly pointed out, PD is difficult to diagnose. This is because the symptoms are so varied and not all symptoms occur in all patients, and also because in the type of people who develop PD, there's often a lot of other neurological issues going on because of their age.

That said, I still think there's a very strong likelihood she has some serious neurological issues that are affecting her motor system, and that a likely (but not the only) candidate for these is PD.

[Poopadoop]

First, look at her history.

She's had at least one blood clot in her brain (I've heard also that it was two) that required hospitalization for a month. So it's not like they just cleared the clot up and she was fine and walked out. She likely had a stroke. This a serious problem not just because it causes brain damage but because it suggests a clotting issue that makes more clots likely, which means more strokes. They are almost certainly going to treat that with anticoagulants but this is a treatment not a cure.

On one of her falls she had a concussion and had post-concussion syndrome. She was seen wearing prism glasses after this, which is a treatment for people who experiencing double vision. In a person her age these facts are not trivial because the brain's ability to recover from knocks diminishes with age. She may have fully recovered or she may not have.

Is it possible these things have all cleared up and she's fine? Sure. Is it likely? Not very. At the least these are significant risk factors for current or future brain damage.

[Poopadoop]

Second, let's look at some of her behaviors. I'm going to assume the video I've seen of her isn't doctored in some way because I've seen the same footage from different sources.

a. The exaggerated movements. There's a term used in the study of brain damage which is NQR (Not Quite Right). This means you see something in a person's behavior that is inappropriate and a cause for concern. The two videos of her responding to reporters shouting questions and at the DNC show someone who I would say is NQR. If I had an aunt or friend's mom or whatever who behaved this way I would insist they go a neurologist, that is the honest truth.

There is a normal response to a strong stimulus which is very stereotypical, meaning it's the same across all healthy people. It's called an orienting response. The eyes move first and the head follows in one motion. She isn't doing that in either of those videos. Her eyes and head go back and forth and even her facial expression isn't right.

These NQR movements are wholly consistent with a neurological issue that may or may not be PD.

[Poopadoop]

b. The stumbles, falls, and faints.

Certainly people without brain damage have stumbles, falls, and faints. People with healthy brains sometimes lose their balance and fainting can arise from health problems that aren't directly related to the brain.

It's not the presence of these incidents that's concerning, it's their frequency. She is having these issues so often that it suggests at least some of them could have a neurological basis. It's not definitive by any means, but it is consistent with the other evidence.

[Poopadoop]

c. The coughing fits.

Again, not definitive and can occur for lots of different reasons that aren't all neurologically-based. But also consistent with a motor disoder that may or may not be PD.

d. Pneumonia. PD and other patients with swallowing problems can develop pneumonia when food gets in the lungs. Fact. Doesn't prove it's what caused her pneumonia, people also get pneumonia for lots of other reasons. But again, consistent with a neurological motor disoder.

[Poopadoop]

e. The blue-tinted glasses. Lots of people who wear blue glasses don't have brain damage, that's for sure. But these glasses are sometimes used for treating PD and epilepsy and so again, her wearing them is consistent with a neurological disorder.

[Poopadoop]

f. Onset/offset of symptoms.

People with PD don't just walk around with PD, they get treated. The standard treatment is l-dopa which tries to compensate for the loss of dopamine-producing cells in the substantia nigra. Titrating the dose is a very inexact science and the result is that people with PD will have 'on' and 'off' times. A person in an 'on' state can seem perfectly normal or nearly normal, whereas a person in an 'off' state will show symptoms.

Hillary's behavior is consistent with these 'on' and 'off' states. She often appears perfectly fine at one time, then an hour later she's having problems moving. And yes, I understand that people who stumble or have fainting spells don't just stumble and faint all day every day. So there are other explanations. But, the fact she seems fine a lot of the time is not necessarily because she is fine overall. It's also expainable as a normal occurrence in someone being treated for PD.

[Poopadoop]

Taking all these things in sum, it certainly looks to me like she has a neurological motor disorder, and that PD is the most likely candidate.

The exaggerated movements alone are, to me, an almost sure sign of a brain issue. The other things being entirely consistent with that, it's hard for me to conclude anything else. Granted, each of those other issues may also have it's own, unrelated explanation. But if they do, that is one hell of a set of coincidences imo.

Obviously, I don't have all the evidence. I don't know what tests her doctors have done that we're not hearing about or what the results were. I don't know what medicines she's taking as some of these could be for completely different things and could be having side effects that might lead to some of those symptoms. Like everyone else, I'm also being fed a lot of information by conspiracy seekers that I have to sift through and attach significance to.

So it is possible that I'm wrong.

[OngBonga]

rilla only looks bad in this argument because he's relentlessly calling you dumb when you're not, while ignoring me, who is actually dumb.

Although you are dumb because an anonymous doctor said it was vascular dementia, so it shows what you know.

[Savy]

I don't think Rilla looks bad in this argument. In fact I appreciate his cut straight to the point approach to it.

[OngBonga]

Yeah ok bad isn't the right word, but it's unusual for him to be personal just because of a difference in opinion.

poop clearly isn't dumb, it's not like he's a tin hatter like me. I guess that's why I find it surprising.

[Poopadoop]

I don't think Rilla looks bad in this argument. In fact I appreciate his cut straight to the point approach to it.

He didn't look bad because he was making counterarguments to mine, he looked bad because one of his arguments was that I'm varying degrees of stupid. It's ad hominen, personally abusive, and irrelevant to the validity of my arguments. Arguments should be judged on their own merits, not on who is making them.

[OngBonga]

There is a reasonable chance that rilla is just being a troll on this matter.

[Poopadoop]

There is a reasonable chance that rilla is just being a troll on this matter.

Well to be fair i did say some things that weren't all that polite either. I tried to edit them out or apologise for them later but it's possible he was responding to those. Next time I should count to ten before hitting the post button.

Anyways it's all good and hopefully in the past now.

[OngBonga]

Oh perhaps I missed that. Well, you are dumb then. Insulting rilla is an act of low intelligence.

[Poopadoop]

Ya well, you're a poopyhead. And so is your mum.

[CoccoBill]

That was uncalled for, keep my girlfriend out of this.