Let's talk about women in competitive games

[a500lbgorilla]

The argument is that boys are wired to like legos or football. For that to be the case, there must be something in our bodies that responds to them. But since legos have only been around for less than a century, whatever supposedly makes us hardwired must be a recent thing. We cant be wired, and we cant have evolved, to like something that didnt exist.

If you want to make a different argument, that boys are inclined to like the color red, that boys are inclined to 'put things together', thats reasonable. Idk if its right, and we as a society dont know if its right, but its not a ludicrous idea.

What if legos were just one instance of a larger class, say mechanical objects? Do you think we could have evolved for one gender to prefer things that fall into the camp of mechanical while another gender prefers objects that fall into a more social class?

What do you think came first: A love for toys like legos or legos which created our love of them.

But what do we really know? Boys tend to like trucks more than girls. Ok. Whats tend mean? What conclusion can we possibly draw from that? It seems like the argument, correct me if im wrong, is that there are different correlations between what boys like and what girls like, there are differences in their brain structure, so therefore girls are bad at video games. Sure, that could be the case. But we dont know. The best we have are things like "tends to".

The argument is something more like:

We know that the brain influences behavior.
We know that hormones influence behavior.
We know that prenatal hormones influence brain structure.
We know some things about certain brain structures.
We see that brain structures tend to differ in similar ways between genders.

Cook that all together and what do you get?

[JKDS]

What if legos were just one instance of a larger class, say mechanical objects? Do you think we could have evolved for one gender to prefer things that fall into the camp of mechanical while another gender prefers objects that fall into a more social class?

Sure, thats certainly possible. In fact many small sample studies have shown that boys tend to have better spacial recognition and what not. Whatever that means.

The argument is something more like:

We know that the brain influences behavior.
We know that hormones influence behavior.
We know that prenatal hormones influence brain structure.
We know some things about certain brain structures.
We see that brain structures tend to differ in similar ways between genders.

Cook that all together and what do you get?

That brain structure and hormones may be responsible for gender differences, but more info is required to affirmatively state such as a matter of fact.

[a500lbgorilla]

There are two other larger points I'd like to make.

That brain structure and hormones may be responsible for gender differences, but more info is required to affirmatively state such as a matter of fact.

We never get matter of fact truths - just not yet shown wrong truths. And in this, we're going to miss that mark by a bit.

And second.

The best we have are things like "tends to".

Right they're called base-rates. Remember Kahnmenn teaches that you always listen to base-rates.

And a bonus point just to soften you up further.

Besides, it does seem like it's a cultural thing. The fact that it probably isn't is difficult to suss out of all the noise involved with demonstrating anything conclusive about human psychology.

Remember, it really seems like the Sun orbits the Earth.

And with that, watch 3 minutes of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E577jhf25t4#t=22m13s

[JKDS]

There are two other larger points I'd like to make.

We never get matter of fact truths - just not yet shown wrong truths. And in this, we're going to miss that mark by a bit.

I'll clarify. Im arguing the difference between a scientific 'truth' and those from psychology. No, we dont know for a fact that the earth revolves around the sun. We know that we've studied the earth's movement for centuries, are really really good at predicting where we'll be, and it appears that we've orbited the sun for longer than we've studied it. I suppose its possible the planet decides to jump 30000ft out of orbit one day, but its pretty safe that we 'know' it wont.

And second.
Right they're called base-rates. Remember Kahnmenn teaches that you always listen to base-rates.

Sure, but the ones we have arent exact and dont prove what you want them to prove.

You say, "brains are different, thats why girls suck at video games". I say "girls dont play video games anywhere near as often, and choose not to do so due to societal norms". These studies dont prove either point to any degree

[MadMojoMonkey]

Remember, it really seems like the Sun orbits the Earth.

That was my intended meaning, yes.

It seems like these gender differences are culturally based, but the data are indicating that culture is less of a factor than we had hypothesized.