Varchertine's Werewolf Game Thread

[a500lbgorilla]

But why the hurry for that information? It's worth nothing now, while it could be revealing later.

Walk me through this.

[Luco]

I bet rilla and drew are also this hasty in the bedroom

[OngBonga]

Walk me through this.

Like I say, I haven't thought this through properly, I'm in no hurry.

But look. drew has already called me a villager. Maybe he's a wolf with my buddy. Maybe if I tell everyone who my buddy is, wolves will be less likely to protect me to save their buddy. How does it help you to know who my partner is? Why is this information better now than on d2, or d3?

[BankItDrew]

But why the hurry for that information? It's worth nothing now, while it could be revealing later.

Like I say, this is premature. I haven't even begun to think this through properly, I don't see why we need to be doing this so early.

Because two players die today.

[monstrman]

Bid seems like a pretty obvious townie from my perspective so I'm going to call him my first villager read

Yay I made one.

Also hi guys.

[BankItDrew]

It's pretty simple:

Wolves have information that the village doesn't have.

The sooner this is brought to parity - the better for the village.

[OngBonga]

I have infirmation that the wolves might not have. Is it of interest to them? idk, but I don't see how it's of interest to villagers either. Thus, I'm in no hurry.

[BankItDrew]

What information might you have that the wolves might not have? You don't have to give details of this information but rather the content of it.

[BankItDrew]

subject / content... you know what I mean.

[a500lbgorilla]

I have infirmation that the wolves might not have. Is it of interest to them? idk, but I don't see how it's of interest to villagers either. Thus, I'm in no hurry.

Do you think your partner is a wolf?

[OngBonga]

What information might you have that the wolves might not have? You don't have to give details of this information but rather the content of it.

Assuming my partner is a villager, the wolves do not know who my partner is. Let's say someone gave me the impression they knew who my partner is. Well that's two wolves I just found. An unlikely event, sure, but I'm merely demonstrating that this hasn't been thought through enough to be spewing our partner's names out already.

Do you think your partner is a wolf?

I have no idea yet.

[a500lbgorilla]

Assuming my partner is a villager, the wolves do not know who my partner is. Let's say someone gave me the impression they knew who my partner is. Well that's two wolves I just found. An unlikely event, sure, but I'm merely demonstrating that this hasn't been thought through enough to be spewing our partner's names out already.

It's like you have no concept of how easy your imagination can get in your way - how easily you could missread any number of situations along these lines.

Versus cold, hard information.

[OngBonga]

Ok so let's assume my partner is gabe (it's not). What are you going to do with that cold hard information?

[a500lbgorilla]

Wait for the rest of the partners lines to be drawn. Then mediate on it and figure out the next manuever.

[OngBonga]

Yeah that's what I thought. Nothing.

I'm not sold at all. I do not think it helps our cause at this stage to be claiming partners. II feel it *might* be helpful later if we keep what little information we have that the wolves don't to ourselves, at least in the short term.

In the meantime, we hunt wolves the regular way. That's my plan. You can do as you please, but I'm in no hurry to say who my partner is.

[a500lbgorilla]

I can't tell you what we'll find before we find it.

[a500lbgorilla]

PS there is no regular way to hunt wolves. There are no specials.

[OngBonga]

I can't tell you what we'll find before we find it.

This argument works both ways. I can say exactly the same about keeping our info private.

[OngBonga]

PS there is no regular way to hunt wolves. There are no specials.

I don't hunt wolves by relying on specials. I hunt wolves (and villagers) by interaction.

[Hoopy]

I bet rilla and drew are also this hasty in the bedroom

20 seconds of manic magic!

[a500lbgorilla]

This argument works both ways. I can say exactly the same about keeping our info private.

The difference being mine is using cold, hard information and yours is using your gut.

[OngBonga]

The difference being mine is using cold, hard information and yours is using your gut.

Perhaps. That cold hard information isn't going anywhere though. We can claim later.

[a500lbgorilla]

Do you remember the last time you wolfed against a village with no info? What did you learn from it?

[OngBonga]

rilla is obviously a villager, by the way. Sure, he could be adjusting from his last two wolf games, but I don't think so. I suspect rilla wolf would just avoid lenghty discussion with me because he knows I'll get on his nerves and kill his interest. Villager rilla doesn't lose interest because he likes to figure stuff out, rather than be deceptive with what he knows.

[a500lbgorilla]

20 seconds of manic magic!

Gonna share your partner?

[OngBonga]

Do you remember the last time you wolfed against a village with no info? What did you learn from it?

That some games are unbalanced. I doubt this one is.

[daven]

i can't tell whether sharing partner ids is pro- or anti- village. Seems most likely to be village neutral, except the wolves must already be sharing their partnerships => that immediately gives them more information than us. I'm waiting for my +1 to give an opinion on whether he is ready to share our relationship with the world, or whether he wants to keep our thing private and behind closed (closet) doors

[MadMojoMonkey]

I don't want to lead by example yet because:

1) I don't want to piss off my 'lover' without his input
2) I want feedback from other players first, too.

Personally, I see nothing but an exchange of information, which is a good thing.

(Consent not given)

Right on!

My partner is MMM. He claims Lana Kane. Of ISIS. I claim Cyril Figgis, with ISIS.

[BankItDrew]

hahaha <3

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm fairly confident that BID is V.

I am worried about breaking the rules to state why... here goes.

Our choice of communication, and a recent mistake made by BID lead me to believe that he is not using that form of communication in more than one capacity.

Therefore BID is not using wolfchat.

I hesitate to state other factors, such as timing that lead me to believe this read is solid.

***
I'm leaning V on rilla for the reasons ong stated.

I'm also on the fence about whether or not it's good if everyone outs, but I'm in a shitty spot since I'm already outed.

[BankItDrew]

I agree with everything MMM said.

Best team evar!

[BooG690]

This back and forth regarding a reveal is quite telling. I, for one, vote not to reveal.

Second, the game is about the wolves total information against our none. With partner-lines known, they'll be less able to defend each other.

Since there are no specials, we give the wolves perfect information by revealing our partners.

They already know all of the villager's they or their buddies are bonded with and can use that to navigate through the lynch mob and claim ignorance after the fact if anyone in the future should sniff them out.

There can be a maximum of 4 W-V links this game (with a minimum of 0 W-V links). Worst case scenario, that's 50% of possible links. How valuable do you think partner information can be with such a high percentage of tainted links?

Let's look at the best case scenario where we have 6 V-V links and 2 W-W links. Us revealing our partners gives the wolves 75% more information that they didn't have. I have a feeling that can only be a bad thing.

It seems BID genuinely (and naively) thinks this is good information to give out. I feel that Rilla should know enough to see that this is a bad idea. I'm pretty suspicious of Rilla atm.

lynch rilla

rescind wuf

lynch luco

rescind rilla

Lynch BankItDrew

A revenge lynch here by Luco immediately rescinding Rilla. Luco and Rilla top my wolf list atm.

[JKDS]

Mod Corner

Vote Count!
Wufwugy (Leading with 3): MMM, Daven, Key
Bankitdrew (3): Boog, Luco, Ongbonga
Ongbonga (2): Ronk, gabe
Luco (2): Rilla, Bankit
Bigred (1): Baudib

Not voting: Idk, who are you? Comrade Questions?

Over 2 days till deadline.

WARNING: Only Roles, Alignments, and +1 identities may be shared. All other PM information is to be KEPT PRIVATE. The next violation will be a modkill.

[OngBonga]

I would expect drew to be very careful about cross thread talk after his last slip. I can't town him on that alone. That said, if gabe is a wolf then I can't see drew being so quick to call me a villager and gabe a wolf after I attacked gabe. drew is on the backburner for now, I'm not voerly impressed with him so far but then I don't expect to be.

[MadMojoMonkey]

@JKDS:
Was my post about BID a violation?

(I truly tried to make my case without any violation of the rules.)

If even that much is a violation, then there's no point in discussing your lover... there's literally nothing you can argue, besides, "trust me."

[BooG690]

Rescind BID

[BankItDrew]

JKDS: I get the impression that someone somehow violated the rules. Can you be clear on what should not be shared as well as an example?

[a500lbgorilla]

Lotsa feelings in that post Boog.

Lotsa straight forward thinking in mine.

[BooG690]

I imagine it was MMM discussing what you (BID) did during your communication fail.

[Luco]

rescind BankItDrew

Lynch boog

[JKDS]

Mod Corner

To be Crystal Clear: ONLY in game messages may EVER be used to support an alignment claim.

Use this test:If your partner could say "I didn't say that", or "that's not what happened" , then you shouldn't post it. The only exception is their name, and the role/alignment they claim.

Examples

Modkillable: Gator said (exact quote, paraphrase, gist) in our couples chat.
Modkillable: Gator seems villagery because he threatened my momma in couples chat.

Permitted: I think Gator is a villager, based on talking with him.
Permitted: I think Gator is a wolf, look at in game thread posts 1, 2, and 3! Also, I just feel it.

[OngBonga]

Oh yeah I'm still on drew.

lynch gabe

[BankItDrew]

so is your mom

[bigred]

so is your mom

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH BURN.

Btw, the only mother sleeping character is KGB...just saying...

[gabe]

the reasons for me being a wolf are bogus. no way i would slip after spending so much time practicing last game

rescind and lynch boog


he asked a question and said "it seems...". both things i noticed myself doing last game as a wolf and tried to stop doing.

thats good enough for me

[MadMojoMonkey]

baudib's lurking.

Why you lurking baudib?

This in post #28:

I think I have 4 villagers so far. I have 2 other wolf candidates, and as much fun as it would be to lynch Wuf Day 1, I can't help to think at least 1 wolf jumped all over him.

yeah it's early

It's wolfy to drop that so early, and not elaborate, then disappear.

Care to elaborate?

Your bold on bigred with no comment isn't looking any better.

[MadMojoMonkey]

For that matter, key is lurking, too.

I wanna hear from you, key.

[OngBonga]

I'm lurking too.

[gabe]

good point, baudib must have a broken keyboard or be a wolf

[Keybored]

Hey MMM....Not lurking, just AFK last 36 hrs. Driving solo. I'm on phone tho but suck bad at thumbing, esp at 85 mph. Anyway, FWIW, I agree 100% with you for clearing BID. He tops my ISIS list.

[bigred]

I'm still not convinced that revealing our partners is the best idea. Sure the wolves know many combos. For example, my partner could be a wolf. He knows our partnership. Same for any W-V combos. Has JKDS declared that there are no w-w combos? I don't think he has and I think there's been some deliberation on this.

If there are W-W combos, then that means there are a few V-V's and the wolves don't understand the dynamics as well within the village. In that scenario, I think them not knowing partnerships gives them less levers to pull to shape the village voting. Rilla's proposal hurts the village in this specific situation, in my opinion. Not saying that makes him a wolf but to so drastically issue a role call without debate is sketchy. If he is a wolf, good job on BID to so blindly walk into this information trap.

[Keybored]

good point, baudib must have a broken keyboard or be a wolf

Yah...Baudib def not his usual self. Topping my W list.

[OngBonga]

good point, baudib must have a broken keyboard or be a wolf

Or, like me, is playing poker.

gabe, it's not like you to wave your finger at someone based on online status. It's a lame reason to point the finger at someone, and it's also flawed. People leave browsers open while eating, working, driving, masturbating, whatever. You know this. You're not even trying. Even bigred is making more of an effort than you are to figure stuff out. You're just vaguely pointing your finger at whoever. Much like last game, funnily enough. I'm definitely getting the same vibe off you.

[Keybored]

Lynch Baudib

[OngBonga]

Votes for baudib are votes for rilla.

And are extremely wolfy.

[gabe]

no weird vibes here

[MadMojoMonkey]

Votes for baudib are votes for rilla.

And are extremely wolfy.

This is wrong thinking. If baud is a wolf, we have to kill rilla by collateral damage.

It's gonna be that way.

If rilla is 100% convinced that baudib is V, then that's something to think about.

If I believed BID was a wolf (I don't), I'd have to do what I can to kill either him or me... that's the only way for a V-W paired wolf to die.

***
I'm with you on gabe.
If there's a reason to call out boog, it's cause he isn't asking enough questions and isn't getting all aggro on someone... that's what he did last game.
The "it seems" argument is so weak that I can't suss why gabe would even post it.
... unless he's going for honorary dhubs.

[wufwugy]

This game is fundamentally flawed. The best strategy and the worst strategy are the same strategy.

this

i see zero value in keeping partners hidden. every lynch includes automatic death of the partner. let's be real, none of us are gonna vote to lynch our partners. this is really just a game of "which two players do we want to die". even in a 3v1 situation, it is always correct to not vote your partner since you know that 50% of the deaths in the lynch are village

it's me n teh hoopster

[OngBonga]

gabe you just came in, vaguely pointed the finger at baudib for being online without posting, which was followed up by a vote from keybored for baudib based on that logic. Now, bearing in mind that a baudib lynch will result in rilla's demise, I'd say I'm pikcing up weird vibes. You're not even voting for baudib, while influencing his wagon. It's a sneaky way of getting rid of rilla, it looks dodgy as shit to me because rilla looks like he's a villager who has an interest in figuring stuff out.

[wufwugy]

this is an account sharing game. a schizophrenic one, where the account doesnt know if it has an evil twin

[Keybored]

Votes for baudib are votes for rilla. And are extremely wolfy.

If I sniff W, I act. How long do I ignore my instincts to protect someone else? Two days? Five?

I happen to agree with you, Ong. I think it's folly to rush into exposing pairings until the idea is rationalized more. And I get W vibe off Rilla for pushing it like he has.

[OngBonga]

I wish people would stop claiming buddies on a whim. You guys are just making instant assumptions and acting on them, instead of thinking it through.

[MadMojoMonkey]

this

i see zero value in keeping partners hidden. every lynch includes automatic death of the partner. let's be real, none of us are gonna vote to lynch our partners. this is really just a game of "which two players do we want to die". even in a 3v1 situation, it is always correct to not vote your partner since you know that 50% of the deaths in the lynch are village

it's me n teh hoopster

Keep lynching wuf for posting ill-conceived crap like this.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Ong is falling solidly into my V category.

[wufwugy]

I wish people would stop claiming buddies on a whim. You guys are just making instant assumptions and acting on them, instead of thinking it through.

you're suggesting it's better to not know who you're lynching than to know who you're lynching

[OngBonga]

you're suggesting it's better to not know who you're lynching than to know who you're lynching

Actually I'm suggesting that people should think things through before making claims that are unreversable. Maybe it is better for us to all claim our partners, I'm just struglling to see where it was discussed in detail. People are acting prematurely.

[wufwugy]

Keep lynching wuf for posting ill-conceived crap like this.

in 3v1, if you vote for your partner, you are opting to kill one target for potential wolf instead of two. given how big margins of errors are in ww, it is virtually always wrong to vote for your partner

[OngBonga]

In 3 vs 1, the villager paired with the wolf MUST vote his buddy.

[baudib]

i wasn't planning on talking to Rilla until I was fairly convinced he was a villager.

I am leaning that way for sure now but word to other villagers: Be very careful. I was in a large mash where there was a W-V masonry and it was devastating to the village. The villager was totally bamboozled and sold the rest of the village on his partner being a villager.

Trust no one.

[MadMojoMonkey]

in 3v1, if you vote for your partner, you are opting to kill one target for potential wolf instead of two. given how big margins of errors are in ww, it is virtually always wrong to vote for your partner

In 3v1, you have an entire thread of information behind you to suss out the wolf.


How about you focus on people instead of mechanics for a while, and maybe - maybe - find an argument to move my policy lynch off of you.
Noting that it will also kill hoopy isn't sleuthing.

And we're nowhere near deadline, and you have 2 votes... it's not like you needed to pull out a ringer to save yourself.

[wufwugy]

Actually I'm suggesting that people should think things through before making claims that are unreversable. Maybe it is better for us to all claim our partners, I'm just struglling to see where it was discussed in detail. People are acting prematurely.

i have seen zero reasons why it's a good idea to not reveal. if we waste time trying to figure out if there is any edge to keeping it secret (which would be super tiny if it exists), we'd just be turning that edge into a liability

i dont want people to think that it's wolfy when i don't bold hoopy, because i never will. i dont want to misread the intentions of other players when they never vote their partners too. life if gator and keith were partners but nobody knows it and i see gator acting weirdly about keith, im probably going to call it wolfy. but if i knew they were partners i wouldnt

it's just a giant complication that provides no value. when we lynch players, we are lynching 100% what we know. there is no reason why we should keep ourselves in the dark about who the other half that we're lynching is

[wufwugy]

In 3v1, you have an entire thread of information behind you to suss out the wolf.


How about you focus on people instead of mechanics for a while, and maybe - maybe - find an argument to move my policy lynch off of you.
Noting that it will also kill hoopy isn't sleuthing.

And we're nowhere near deadline, and you have 2 votes... it's not like you needed to pull out a ringer to save yourself.

rate of accuracy of reads is far too low. i think it is always correct to vote for the non-partner unless you get an actual slip up or something from your partner. but if you're just trying to figure out his play with your smarts, the odds favor you far more to just take the shot at the wolf being one of the other two partners

[wufwugy]

In 3 vs 1, the villager paired with the wolf MUST vote his buddy.

he must but he cant because he knows he's not a wolf and the probability that his buddy is the wolf is too low

[MadMojoMonkey]

herpy derp derp. Thinking is hard. Herp derp. I'd rather just decide now, rather than allow my brain to use up the precious oxygen needed for my gut. Herp derp herp derp derpy derp.

FYP

[wufwugy]

lynch monstr

just 1 post in the first 24 hours of this game, but 12 posts in the first 24 hours of last game