Thoughts about my HU pre-flop ranges?

[heLPME]

I'm trying to focus more on what my default ranges should be for pre flop situations against an unknown opponent heads up. I am currently playing NL5 and NL10.

Button opening range=Ax+, 7/8os+,K9 os and suited+,Q8 os and suited+, 22+, 3/4suited+,2 gappers- (7/10suited+), 1 gapper (8/10suited+),

Blind defending range=A/10os+, K9suited+, Q8 suited+, K/10os+, Q/10os+,22+, Axsuited+, 9/10os+,

3-bet range=10's+,A/Qos+,A/Qsuited+,10/Jsuited+

3-bet defending range=22+, K/Qsuited+, A/Kos



I'm probably missing some combos or maybe I have too many so let me know how I can improve on this.

Thanks

[MadMojoMonkey]

You gain reads super-fast in HU play. Just playing solid post-flop poker in the first few hands is usually the right move, even if you feel like you're being bullied.

Ranges in a HU game are extremely wide pre-flop. So in the first few hands, I, personally, like to play any hand for a flop. Honestly, I don't think you need too much of an edge in the first few hands to justify taking flops if the price isn't something extreme (like a 5bb open or a 12bb re-raise). You need to gain reads on your opponent fast, and you have to play multiple streets to do that.

Don't be too stubborn with weak draws. Don't be afraid to bet when you hit something.

After the first 5 hands, you should be building a nice picture of what boards your opponent fires at, what they check behind, what they showdown for cheap... and viola, you have reads.

Now put those reads to use and adjust your ranges to exploit weaknesses.

[Stacks]

Regarding your BTN opening range, unless I messed up are you meaning to say you will only be opening roughly 37% of hands?

And defending from the BB with only ~23% of hands?

Because if that's the case, that's entirely too tight for HU. You need to be opening WAY more buttons as a default.

And if you are only defending 23% of hands from the BB, then any 3x button open is going to show a profit regardless of if they give up everytime they see the flop, as they would be risking 2.5bb to win 4, and thus only need folds 62.5% of the time.

I'm not all that good at HU (or well even poker), but I'd say at the start of a HU match, you'd be better off having an 80-100% BTN opening range. If it turns out the villain is folding his BB frequently, that's good. If not, then even with your weak range you still have position postflop and hopefully a skill advantage, and can begin to gather reads/stats quicker.

[supa]

Viola?

[eugmac]

Yes, viola.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Stupid spell check, not reading my mind.

viola = voilà, obv.

There should be more viola in poker, anyway.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'd say at the start of a HU match, you'd be better off having an 80-100% BTN opening range. If it turns out the villain is folding his BB frequently, that's good. If not, then even with your weak range you still have position postflop and hopefully a skill advantage, and can begin to gather reads/stats quicker.

This.

Your minimum continuing range from the BB is determined by Villain's bet size.

Get VERY familiar with the equation { bet to you }/{ total amount someone will win if you call }.
This is most commonly expressed in poker as bet/(bet + pot). KNOW THIS. Memorize the common instances of this equation. Here's a start:

Hero is BB, Villain is SB, HU:
Villain limps: 0/(0 + 2) = 0%
Hero continues with 100% range.

Villain min-raises: 1/(1 + 3) = 25%
Hero continues with at least 75% range.

Villain raises to 2.5bb: 1.5/(1.5 + 3.5) = 30%
Hero continues with at least 70% range.

Villain raises to 3bb: 2/(2 + 4) = 33%
Hero continues with at least 67% range.


I am out of time, and must leave for work.... I have a sneaking suspicion that I took this from the wrong perspective... the math is probably good, but maybe taking it from Hero's perspective is bad... someone before me took it from Villain's perspective, I think...


Gotta go. I'll check back on this, though.

[Stacks]

This.

Your minimum continuing range from the BB is determined by Villain's bet size.

Get VERY familiar with the equation { bet to you }/{ total amount someone will win if you call }.
This is most commonly expressed in poker as bet/(bet + pot). KNOW THIS. Memorize the common instances of this equation. Here's a start:

Hero is BB, Villain is SB, HU:
Villain limps: 0/(0 + 2) = 0%
Hero continues with 100% range.

Villain min-raises: 1/(1 + 3) = 25%
Hero continues with at least 75% range.

Villain raises to 2.5bb: 1.5/(1.5 + 3.5) = 30%
Hero continues with at least 70% range.

Villain raises to 3bb: 2/(2 + 4) = 33%
Hero continues with at least 67% range.


I am out of time, and must leave for work.... I have a sneaking suspicion that I took this from the wrong perspective... the math is probably good, but maybe taking it from Hero's perspective is bad... someone before me took it from Villain's perspective, I think...


Gotta go. I'll check back on this, though.

I'm really not any good at math, so could be entirely incorrect. But I believe if we are considering how often we should be continuing from an optimal standpoint, we should be looking at it from villain's perspective. That is, if he minraises, risking 1.5bb to win a pot of what will be 3bb, he only needs to win 50% of the time. Thus we need to continue >50% of the time or else he instantly profits.

Likewise if he opens 3x, risking 2.5bb to win 4bb, I believe we will need to continue 37.5% or more to deny him an instant profit with all his bluffs.

Surely someone better at this can chime in.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Yes. I agree. I got rushed this morning and probably should have deleted that post instead of posting it.

Taking it from the perspective of Villain's standard raise sizing (or Hero's when Hero is BTN):

When BTN limps, there is no bet to Hero. (not really a bluff, then, eh?)
BB continues with 100%, obv.

BTN min-raises: 1.5/(1.5 + 1.5) = 50%
BB continues with at least 50% range.

BTN raises to 2.5bb: 2/(2 + 1.5) = 57%
BB continues with at least 43% range.

BTN raises to 3bb: 2.5/(2.5 + 1.5) = 63%
BB continues with at least 37% range.

BTN raises to 4bb: 3.5/(3.5 + 1.5) = 70%
BB continues with at least 30% range.

Those are always "at least" due to the fact that when BB continues with exactly that amount, it is a 0 EV bet for BTN, even if BTN just check/folds on all post-flop hands.

[Icanhastreebet]

The last post is a terrible terrible way to look at how much to defend a BTN open.

[MadMojoMonkey]

It's not intended to be a long term guide, just to show the break-even points for a standard sizing BTN open to win with pure bluffs in HU. If you have reads that a certain sizing corresponds to a certain range, then that absolutely dominates this info.

[eugmac]

The last post is a terrible terrible way to look at how much to defend a BTN open.

Keep going, please.

[MadMojoMonkey]

First of all, it assumes that BB doesn't raise, and that BTN always opens with the same amount (when he opens).

Also, it ignores ESS, implied odds, and, basically, all the poker that's going to happen between PRE and showdown.

It omits any knowledge of Villain's ranges or post-flop tendencies, as the OP was concerned with ranges in the beginning of a HU match.

It was really only meant to be an introduction to using bet/(bet + pot), and to see an application. Also, given how tight OP's ranges are, I was motivated to show him how he's likely throwing away monies by playing so tight HU.

[heLPME]

Yes. I agree. I got rushed this morning and probably should have deleted that post instead of posting it.

Taking it from the perspective of Villain's standard raise sizing (or Hero's when Hero is BTN):

When BTN limps, there is no bet to Hero. (not really a bluff, then, eh?)
BB continues with 100%, obv.

BTN min-raises: 1.5/(1.5 + 1.5) = 50%
BB continues with at least 50% range.

BTN raises to 2.5bb: 2/(2 + 1.5) = 57%
BB continues with at least 43% range.

BTN raises to 3bb: 2.5/(2.5 + 1.5) = 63%
BB continues with at least 37% range.

BTN raises to 4bb: 3.5/(3.5 + 1.5) = 70%
BB continues with at least 30% range.

Those are always "at least" due to the fact that when BB continues with exactly that amount, it is a 0 EV bet for BTN, even if BTN just check/folds on all post-flop hands.

Good stuff, thanks

Regarding your BTN opening range, unless I messed up are you meaning to say you will only be opening roughly 37% of hands?

And defending from the BB with only ~23% of hands?

Because if that's the case, that's entirely too tight for HU. You need to be opening WAY more buttons as a default.

And if you are only defending 23% of hands from the BB, then any 3x button open is going to show a profit regardless of if they give up everytime they see the flop, as they would be risking 2.5bb to win 4, and thus only need folds 62.5% of the time.

I'm not all that good at HU (or well even poker), but I'd say at the start of a HU match, you'd be better off having an 80-100% BTN opening range. If it turns out the villain is folding his BB frequently, that's good. If not, then even with your weak range you still have position postflop and hopefully a skill advantage, and can begin to gather reads/stats quicker.

Good points, I'll definite start with a looser opening range early on