*** Witch Hunt: Village of Souls gameplay thread ***

[JKDS]

jkds this is the link to post where i pick out some random stuff you say http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2143056

i read your responses to each one of my points. your justifications arent making me think you are less wolfy than the next best thing. also fingering me would be hilariously bad

That link doesnt work for me. Post number?

Saying not to finger you just makes me want to do it more btw.

[rong]

Not Luco as if he comes back witch I'd still wanna lynch JKDS.

[jyms]

I don't think I've ever used towning or town.

Sorry, I wnet to quote it from the last game and it was actually something you quoted in your post, not actually you using it.

JKDS, I know how to search, I went into the WW forum and searched the word "town" throughout the forum and you and Ong are the ones doing it.

[jyms]

That link doesnt work for me. Post number?

Saying not to finger you just makes me want to do it more btw.

143

[rong]

Jims, I told you that a while ago. That was a large part of my Luco and JKDS theory.

[JKDS]

JKDS, I know how to search, I went into the WW forum and searched the word "town" throughout the forum and you and Ong are the ones doing it.

WHO CARES? Lets assume that only I use that term. Just to humor you.

Do you really not see how my posting of it on the first page of THIS THREAD makes it more likely luco picked it up from there? We have direct evidence of its actual use in this very thread that he very likely read. So why does his use of Town = jkds wolf? This logic is absolutely terrible. I cant see any villager being so persistent with it.

[Luco]

Grammar Nazis itt. Come on. Try harder witches.

[jyms]

Yes, im smart enough to know that fingering now is bad for the village. However, im also one of the best wolf hunters in this game even if yall never listen to me. (Seriously, ong gets more respect than i do. What up with that!). Id rather gamble on my instincts than on yours, so gimme.

I don't agree with this, I'd play on your side any day. Ong get's too locked on to one person far too fast sometimes.

[JKDS]

Jims, I told you that a while ago. That was a large part of my Luco and JKDS theory.

[rong]

JKDS, quote you ruse of it and luco's use of it, I'm too busy to go back and find it myself.

[jyms]

Ok well to be fair, we think Luco is a witch because of this theory, we could obviously take him out first and see where teh witches leave us. I am as convinced, if not more convinced of Luco being the witch. If there was enough votes to switch to I would. but one of them has to go. For now, as long as I am JKDS's bold I see no reason to switch though

[Luco]

I already told you I read it itt and borrowed it.

I'm pretty sure jkds is town now which makes you very witchy jyms. I don't care how it looks and you've been priming this thread to jump me if I defend him, I'll have to trust the village to see through you.

lynch jyms

[gabe]

I cant see any villager being so persistent with it.

why not? id think its more likely to be a villager. when are baddies persistent with any argument?

btw i think youve succcessfully debunked jyms argument but that doesnt make him a likely wolf, yet. and the case i had of you in my head wasnt really factoring the town thing in

[jyms]

You used it in an entirely different context. He JKDS said town, you much later said you were "towning" yourself

[JKDS]

JKDS, quote you ruse of it and luco's use of it, I'm too busy to go back and find it myself.

Idk where luco used it. I dont care. My use is on post 30 or 31 and is the first use of that word in thread.

[gabe]

I'm pretty sure jkds is town now which makes you very witchy jyms.

disagree. to me it just looks like people trying to find cases. its not like there was alot to go by when we first got down to 6-3

[rong]

You used it in an entirely different context. He JKDS said town, you much later said you were "towning" yourself

That's what I thought. Where the fuck does towning come from? That's why I asked if he'd read any old threads. Nobody just uses towning!

[jyms]

.

Ikr, its awesome!

------------------------

drown ong

Seriously, ong. Youve never done this. Where the fuck you at mate? Gimme dem town tells so I dont have to see if you float in water.

What info. Why did you echo this popular sentiment, but not expand on it?



I dont think you have to know TLR was a villager in order to think tlr-keith were villagers after their scuffle. This attack doesnt seem well thought out. Did you think bikes was town? Why did you try and shift things to luco?

I guess I'm the only one not worried about metagame, I'm aware that towning myself too hard will make my first wolf game damn near impossible but whatevs

Well we have until friday (I sincerely hope) to get this right so let's slow the fuck down. (the fingering/voting, not the posting. that's slow enough already).

[JKDS]

Gabe, your case is buzz words that you cant back up. Ive given you post 146, which you've ignored. If you cant answer those questions, which are mostly just asking for clarifications of your case, then there is no case to be clarified.

And jyms is wolfy for my case on him, not for this town=jkds-luco nonsense. THough that does reinforce my feeling.

[jyms]

also as a Noob, we typically always want to rush and find witches/wolves/ vampires and tend to post tons. Why is Luco talking about slowing down?

[gabe]

why is this a big deal? luco seems clever enough (somehow the ong=newt joke made me lol), he could have just used it after seeing the word 'town'

[jyms]

rescind JKDS and lynch Luco

[Luco]

That's what I thought. Where the fuck does towning come from? That's why I asked if he'd read any old threads. Nobody just uses towning!

Well I did. It's a shame you brought it up I had you as town at that point.

[Luco]

also as a Noob, we typically always want to rush and find witches/wolves/ vampires and tend to post tons. Why is Luco talking about slowing down?

I want more info, why don't you jyms?

[jackvance]

Why I rescinded on JKDS is because a lot of people are actively posting and arguing, what are the odds all 3 witches are involved in that? Pretty much nil. To me that points at Daven and Hoopy. They've only laid back and asked questions, talk about nonsense fluff. One of them is pretty much guaranteed to be a witch. Possibly both. So I didn't want to have the day close out before getting attention to that.

[jackvance]

Ok I figured he picked up the "towning" thing from reading the mafia wiki (it's atleast not a term I know) but now he says he picked it up from this thread.. majorly fishy.

[JKDS]

I can switch to daven for ignoring my questions, but i like voting jyms more. I can totally see hoopy as a wolf, but im too lazy to look into it atm.

[Luco]

3 votes for JKDS, might want to slow the votes down.

He's not a bad choice today, but doing things quickly is usually good for the wolves.

This.

[Luco]

I swear I will use the word town in every future werewolf to remind you all of this mistake.

Why can't a chartered accountant pick up a word and use it, and why the fuck would a supposed coach give me lessons in slang? Try harder.

[Luco]

Going to bed, don't let the wolves close the day early.

[gabe]

Gabe, your case is buzz words that you cant back up. Ive given you post 146, which you've ignored. If you cant answer those questions, which are mostly just asking for clarifications of your case, then there is no case to be clarified.

And jyms is wolfy for my case on him, not for this town=jkds-luco nonsense. THough that does reinforce my feeling.

i havent ignored the post, only ignored addressing it. the posts of yours i originally quoted all seemed too jokey, where you might have thought they were innocent enough but to me seemed heavily witch-brained. all your posts since then have seem much more thought out. yea i get buzzwordy because ive learned to read people's subconscious on my own, i dont have a good framework for explaining my probabilistic conclusions


also fwiw when you were 1 vote away from getting lynched, i probably would have fingered someone if i was a villager in your shoes.

finally if i thought you were very likely to be a witch i would just finger you. i just think youre the best lynch and dont see how my mind could be changed

[jackvance]

Luco I have one question. The meta-game thing you got from something I posted, I get that, but you start talking about future games where it will be hard to play as a wolf if you "town" yourself hard (play very villagery as we would normally say).. I have never seen anyone realize stuff like this during their first game. Where did you get this if you didn't read other games?

And if you want to know why people are suspicious of you, it is not just semantics, it is that you are using ideas and terminology which is bizarre for a first-timer.

[Hoopy]

Why I rescinded on JKDS is because a lot of people are actively posting and arguing, what are the odds all 3 witches are involved in that? Pretty much nil. To me that points at Daven and Hoopy. They've only laid back and asked questions, talk about nonsense fluff. One of them is pretty much guaranteed to be a witch. Possibly both. So I didn't want to have the day close out before getting attention to that.

A lot of people seem very sure of who's a witch/villager right now. I don't see how it's possible to be sure with little information.

Both you and rong still seem like villagers to me.

JKDS hyper defense is always fun to read. The arguments with gabe lean towards it being unlikely both are wolves, very difficult to set that up and make it work.

[daven]

Btw, daven youre still not off the table either. Ignoring my questions has NOT gone unnoticed.

i don't think we're in a place that anyone should be off the radar yet
i.e. there are no lock-villagers
i'll go back and try and find those questions you asked
the fact that you've been sitting at lynch-1 votes for ages has gotta tell us something

[jyms]

He's not at 4 votes. JV and I have to rescinded. I'm on Luco and JV hasn't bolded anyone

[daven]

why not? id think its more likely to be a villager. when are baddies persistent with any argument?

btw i think youve succcessfully debunked jyms argument but that doesnt make him a likely wolf, yet. and the case i had of you in my head wasnt really factoring the town thing in

i was consistent last game for the firstfew days

[gabe]

before all the shitstorm started this was a post that i liked. i think everyone should be on the same page as jv.

The amount of times I've seen wolves pull such a level in previous games is around zero.

So I have: have said things they'd never say as a wolf (Gabe, Luco, Pascal) and Rong is too empathic with the village to be a baddie.

Most likely wolves: JKDS, Jyms and ? Daven. (makes hoopy the last villager)

Btw I'm just using a very broad strokes kind of approach here in this game, not too much to explain, just being intuitive so I'm not going to be too convincing to the village but whatever.


And I'm down with a JKDS lynch.

[daven]

jkds - these are the questions you're talkking about right?

What info. Why did you echo this popular sentiment, but not expand on it?



I dont think you have to know TLR was a villager in order to think tlr-keith were villagers after their scuffle. This attack doesnt seem well thought out. Did you think bikes was town? Why did you try and shift things to luco?

see my post 96 quoted below - i responded to a similar question re gizmo nightkill and speed being useful tells/info

re the TLR-keith thing, for it to be obvious that this would only result in a villager-villager death relies on being confident that TLR was a villager - something that luco-witch can be more confident of than luco-villager

i had no idea re bikes, he had made maybe 3 posts? something like that. I like targeting inactives in general. Luco seemed like he looked witch - as per that list of quotes i posted. Something seemed off, still does a bit.

pascal was wolf with gizmo last time, i think he was impressed with gizmo's reads on the game, i know i was. Which also means that a gizmo night kill makes me looks suspicious too.

I don't like that Pascal is so quick to threaten to finger people. It's been made pretty clear that this isn't a great villager move without very strong reads. Seems to be a reflexive form of defence. Then again, he could do this if he's finally flipped villager as well i guess.

Where are Boog and Bikes? low posting makes it really hard to read people, and the absence of a lynch on day 1, and thus absence of any real voting patterns, doesn't make things any easier.

[daven]

in two hours i'm going to be out of play for about 18hrs. I've been on the phone to media most of today, and i've got to head out of town to front a meeting this evening. This shit is blowing up more than i expected, i thought i'd be less able to focus on this game than last time (and posted as such), and i'm right.

I'm village. I'll try and figure out who i think is what and post before i leave. There is merit in the idea of running wagons between me (i'm village, and knowing that will probably help if i end up lynched once you can see voting patterns and know that any observations i have made are legit) and the most likely wolf candidate. I won't finger anyone cos i'm not confident enough of any witches to do that, and there's a pretty good chance i'll be offline at lynchtime anyway.

[daven]

Jyms needs to post more accusations and get voting imo, i can't read his role at all based on his posts so far.
Jyms witch?

[jyms]

I've had someone bolded most of the day. I've been on about the jkds/Luco connection. Ate you not reading all the posts?

[jyms]

Not sure how to take that post daven. Seems real witchy to me. Damn

[jackvance]

before all the shitstorm started this was a post that i liked..

The main thing that's changed is that it is now unlikely JKDS and Jyms are both wolves, so this points more towards a Daven+Hoopy+Jyms/JKDS witch team.

And it looks like Daven is a bit high on something.

Ok I'm off for the day.

[daven]

I've had someone bolded most of the day. I've been on about the jkds/Luco connection. Ate you not reading all the posts?

i haven't read all the posts. I can't hunt this game as much as i want to cos irl is getting in the way. I'm doing a readthrough now.

I note that last game i went on a posting frenzy when i started getting heat from Gator, if it looks like that is happening this time then so be it. Note that i have started posting more content now cos i want to help the village before i go afk, and that i wasn't getting any heat at that time. posting now is obviously going to draw suspicion my way, and i knew that. But I'm village so it's worth it if i get some hunting done and get any of my thoughts out there before i get lynched or night-killed.

JKDS - those questions of yours i answered, are those the ones you were talking about.

[daven]

And it looks like Daven is a bit high on something.

Ok I'm off for the day.

caffeine, lack of sleep, the thrill of national media attention, the stress of fucking this campaign up, awareness that i probably won't be sleeping much for the next few days, yep, high on something indeed.

Here's early and succinct coverage of what i'm up to at the moment. They seem to have employed a PR team, we've got a few of us volunteering some hours. I need to get prepped cos gotta meet senior public servants and politicians. I'm back in that old game i used to play and i'm rusty.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/pr...din-paua-plans

[daven]

Not sure how to take that post daven. Seems real witchy to me. Damn

note how careful i was before posting last game vs this game if you want a read for meta or whatever

[JKDS]

I just finished dinner, and have tons of hw to do. Iirc we have plenty of time today. Ill catch up in a bit.

[JKDS]

Holy shit, we have till friday.

@daven: Those were the q's, and ill think about that post later.

[gabe]

wuf, what happens after a night-phase when it goes to 3 villagers-3 witches, and ultimately 1-1 ? is that a tie? a coinflip? a race to finger the other person first? the way i see we have a 40% (we hit a wolf 3/5 then 2/3 on the following turns**) of getting to 1-1 if we get to 3-3.

i never really got an answer on this and it matters for determining if we should lynch or finger this turn. i think we might have a better chance hitting a witch if we finger compared to when we vote.


**with 3 villagers and 3 witches left, any random person can finger anyone and our chances of hitting a witch are at least 3/5 (higher when the witches decide to be the fingerer). this would leave us with 2 villagers and 2 witches, where a random finger attempt would hit 2/3. we lose in all other scenarios, so chance is 2/3 * 3/5 = 40%

[wufwugy]

3-3 is a witches win. Any scenario where fingering is allowed after a tie in villager/witch ratio is just a guessing game where the remaining villagers have to perfectly pick the witches in sequence in order to win. I doubt anybody wants the game to end like that and it doesn't really even work

[gabe]

thanks but the answer is no good. you say it's a witches win but then you leave room for doubt and only say it doesn't really even work. but it totally works as long as we know what happens at 1-1 (which could be a fingering race or at least a tie).

no where does it say fingering is not allowed after we reach an even ratio. also the OP doesnt state a win condition. the implied werewolf rules are that we play until one side is dead. i dont see how the witches are just given the win at 3-3

[Luco]

Luco I have one question. The meta-game thing you got from something I posted, I get that, but you start talking about future games where it will be hard to play as a wolf if you "town" yourself hard (play very villagery as we would normally say).. I have never seen anyone realize stuff like this during their first game. Where did you get this if you didn't read other games?

And if you want to know why people are suspicious of you, it is not just semantics, it is that you are using ideas and terminology which is bizarre for a first-timer.

Jv you're still my strongest villager right now so I implore you to listen. I realised I made posts that it would have been really difficult to make as a wolf so I commented on it. I'm an intelligent person who is trying my best to witch hunt. I really don't see what's so suspicious, several of you had me as villager until rong put the idea forward that it's a little too good to be true.

If the only thing that's changed between then and now is that this idea has been planted then I challenge every villager to look through every post of mine and draw their own conclusions. More than three people have commented on my deft use of language so the wolf plan is gaining some ground, don't be fooled. as stated I will defend my life staunchly as I'm the best villager read I have.

[wufwugy]

thanks but the answer is no good. you say it's a witches win but then you leave room for doubt and only say it doesn't really even work. but it totally works as long as we know what happens at 1-1 (which could be a fingering race or at least a tie).

no where does it say fingering is not allowed after we reach an even ratio. also the OP doesnt state a win condition. the implied werewolf rules are that we play until one side is dead. i dont see how the witches are just given the win at 3-3

How do you suggest we do it? Letting fingering go on doesn't actually work because it's no longer werewolf and instead is just about a random villager guessing perfectly. Wolf win has always been about getting to that equal ratio; I don't think I want to change that just to let the village potentially win because whichever villager was able to guess at the last baddies ends up being right.

[Luco]

I need to step back from defending myself as there's a lot more here to digest. In particular the jkds wagon - what does this mean if he's a wolf? What if he's not?

I'm gonna read through again and post some thoughts.

[Luco]

Fwiw the main reason I think jdks could be town (lol) is that more attempt would be made to switch voting to me if he wasn't. As the main accusers are seemingly happy either way that suggests to me he's likely villager too.

[gabe]

How do you suggest we do it? Letting fingering go on doesn't actually work because it's no longer werewolf and instead is just about a random villager guessing perfectly. Wolf win has always been about getting to that equal ratio; I don't think I want to change that just to let the village potentially win because whichever villager was able to guess at the last baddies ends up being right.

no. with normal rules, an equal ratio means the wolves dominate the voting and thus can kill everyone. the witches dont win before they can guarantee killing the town

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_%28party_game%29
Win condition

If all Mafia members are killed, then the Townspeople win the game. If the villagers are outnumbered by the Mafia during the day, then the Mafia win.

id say by ending the game at 3-3 with the stated rules, youre fucking with the games integrity much more than letting it play out (given the rules).

if it gets to 1-1 id say the fairest is just whoever gets fingered first loses but maybe thats not the best way to flip a coin.

[Luco]

As an aside, it looks like my 2k post will be in ww. yay!

[Luco]

I'm no longer 100% on a final fingering but it has to be an option and not just for me. Unless there's enough info out there to strongly confirm at least two witches when I'm revealed as villager (so we at least have a semi-shot at it), it's going to be really hard to roll over and guarantee a villager death. If I can stand on the gallows and say 'there's your witches folks and I'm about to prove it' then maybe, maybe my death wouldn't be in vain.

Fingering is clearly a plan b regardless, plan a is to lynch a witch today.

If you fall for witch lies then maybe you need a hero to save you. If I swing and miss, then every villager that voted for me will be complicit in our collective downfall.

I was saying at 9-3 that we really had to get the next lynch right. After bike's move I figured it was go time. Pay attention to the reactions to my finger threat.

Any witch that threatens to finger wouldn't go through with it unless their coven had already agreed the next target and even then it has zero benefit over letting the wagon roll on their witch and just having a standard night.

[Luco]

Ok, in the order provided by wuf:

Hoopy: Pretty villager to me. In particular he seems more concerned with gaining information than running a wagon and he’s made some rather villager posts, but far from lock right now and he could just be laying low.

Pascal: When he said ‘you lead, I’ll follow’ I quickly put him as villager. My opinion hasn’t really changed with any of his subsequent posts, plus he at least sees the logic in a last minute finger despite the risks. Yes he has doubted me but I’m willing to believe he’s just a curious villager.

JKDS: My main problem is that certain people are trying to close the wagon on him. It would make more sense to me personally for him to be a villager, otherwise I’d have got more votes today. The alternative is that he’s a wolf which makes jyms a lock villager which is really hard to swallow given the amount of heat he’s given me. Chances of jyms & jkds being on the same side at this point are so low that if they are both villagers then wtf we deserve to lose, and if they’re both witches then wp gg. We all have to pick one methinks.

Jyms: Possible that jyms is just misguided about me, in which case we’d have to see who has been agreeing with JKDS to find our other two witches. I’ll look into it because admittedly I haven’t given that possibility much thought as of now.

Rong: Was running really villager but then turned on me and didn’t let go. I think maybe a real villager wouldn’t be quite so dog-with-a-bone about a couple of words.

Daven: Too quiet mostly. I doubt three witches would lead a charge as it leaves them wide open when the villager is killed, someone has to fade out and hoopy/daven are the quietest two. A little more witchy than hoopy but not too concerned with either of them.

JV: Has done very little to raise my eyebrow, his last minute jkds rescind would be a real dick move if they were teammates.

Gabe: My first real vote for witch. But his subsequent posts haven’t actually confirmed my suspicions. I will give gabe a more detailed analysis shortly but right now all he cares about is the bloody rules. Fwiw I think 3-3 should be a fail because it’s not ww anymore at that point.

Luco: Unnaturally natural, too good to be true? Still hoping to prove I’m for real and it’s nice to get some compliments about my game despite feeling like I haven’t actually done much yet. I’m constantly watching and trying to be methodical about this, which is why I feel closing any day early won’t help and for this reason I’ve marked the card of everyone who tried to close the wagon on jkds. Unless he’s a witch.

So basically I have jv, pascal and prob hoopy as villager, jyms as witch pending further investigation and everyone else in the maybe pile. I like the idea of finding the villagers first, it makes a lot of sense.

[Hoopy]

I'd be ok with a JKDS, jyms or daven lynch today.

[Luco]

I think it has to be JKDS or jyms today, one is almost certainly a witch and either one would give us tomorrow's target.

Clearly I'm looking at Jyms, but it doesn't matter because the real villager should finger the other one before it gets that far.

[Luco]

I'm not sure what to make of daven's 'I'm off, feel free to drown me' comments.

[eugmac]

Luco types an awful lot, lynch him.

[Luco]

Luco types an awful lot, lynch him.

Yeah I pretty much took over this page while the US was sleeping

[jackvance]

no. with normal rules, an equal ratio means the wolves dominate the voting and thus can kill everyone. the witches dont win before they can guarantee killing the town

It's actually pretty much the same under normal rules though. At 3-3, the wolves don't dominate the voting because 4 votes are needed to lynch, so we could have 3 wolves voting for a villager and 3 villagers for a wolf, which ends up as a coinflip. If the villagers win 3 coinflips of these in a row (at 3-3, 2-2 and 1-1) they can still win the game. But that's jus zzz boring so that's why we let the bad guys in that case, no?

[Luco]

Why are you answering for JV? 3 witches, JKDS, Luco and JV. That explains why the witches never bolded anyone else or started another wagon at 3 all day

This makes no sense. jkds is close to lynch and we do nothing? Surely I would have at least started another wagon before jkds got to 3? If JV is witch then he's fooled at least me and my main argument against jkds is you.

I'd finger Luco for reasons stated

No, you won't. You can't. But I can finger you.

So if I'm witch, why did I go for gabe when the bikes train was picking up speed? Bikes is confirmed villager now and everyone was jumping it, yet I stepped out? Let me guess, more coaching?

[Pascal]

hehe fingering

luco you annoy me, how are you so good so quickly. i guess you're just as likely to be this good if youre a villager as witch and just put some training into reading other stuff.

jyms or jkds im easy with

[Luco]

hehe fingering

luco you annoy me, how are you so good so quickly. i guess you're just as likely to be this good if youre a villager as witch and just put some training into reading other stuff.

jyms or jkds im easy with

I read the rules for mafia on wiki. I read the last post-ww discussion thread. I read it all the way through. I knew I would be joining this one and didn't want to start cold. Honestly am I doing any better than daven's first game? He mentioned that he 'ghosted' a game before joining, probably for the same reason I looked in that thread. I didn't come in here to be LVP. It really is as simple as that.

Come on, the basic concept of this game is simply not that hard to grasp. You're all doing yourselves a disservice by being so suspicious of me. I'm still fucking flattered but this is really starting to hurt our chances of winning if we can't move on from it.

Again, I challenge you. Read my posts, make your decision.

[Pascal]

sigh i wish you'd post less. luco's back on my witch shortlist.

jyms, jkds and luco would be an interesting team.

[Luco]

I could easily have said I played mafia elsewhere and none of this shitstorm would have happened.

[Luco]

You're the only person I'm convinced is a villager Luco so you guide and I shall follow

Either the witches have worked their magic on you or you're a witch yourself. Either way, the pascal above is clearly gone

1,999...

[Pascal]

I could easily have said I played mafia elsewhere and none of this shitstorm would have happened.

doubt it would be too hard to find out you were lying, especially with people who actually post on other sites, and that would look even worse

[Pascal]

Either the witches have worked their magic on you or you're a witch yourself. Either way, the pascal above is clearly gone

1,999...

i'm definitely gone now, this isnt revenge just reading your posts one after the other. the attempt at redirecting this onto me (i'm not a witch BUT MAYBE YOU ARE) convinces me

rescind jkds
burn luco

[Luco]

Let it be known that pascal is a twat

[Pascal]

burn burn burn the witch