[10NL] 4bet bluff gets called. Now what with TPWK?

[Pelion]

Villain is 24/22 - 16% 3bet - very aggressive TAG. Seems decent, positionally aware and super aggro over blinds. 40% steal and 58% fold to steal. He has 3bet me several times over the last 70 hands, all of them from the button or blinds and I haven't played back yet (or had a decent hand against him).

I don't think I can call preflop OOP. My 4bet is too small given we are a little deep and I'm OOP. €2.30 better?

I check turn as I think he will bet his entire range after a check on 2 streets.

CRAI turn? I'm scared of almost any river card if I c/c

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, €0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com
UTG (€7.85)
MP (€4.60)
CO (€20.01)
Button (€7.85)
Hero (SB) (€13.68)
BB (€14.03)
Preflop: Hero is SB with ,
4 folds, Hero bets €0.30, BB raises to €0.90, Hero raises to €2, BB calls €1.10
Flop: (€4) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks
Turn: (€4) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets €2.30, Hero?

[Pascal]

As discussed a little in IRC, 4bet bigger. I'd also happily consider flatting the 3bet against this guy, we've got a fairly strong hand that plays pretty well OOP as we can C/R flops with a mix of made hands and draws with good equity. I'd definitely bet this flop though, unless you are happy to c/c down (which I wouldn't be)

[agnesamurphy]

I'd call OTT. It seems like a steal since it went check check OTF. I think villain would have bet any draws.

A check/raise isn't a bad idea if you do think he's betting a draw, but it does fold out weaker hands that you could get value from OTR.

[surviva316]

Move tables preflop.

[Malbrack]

I'm scared of almost any river card if I c/c

Why? (I'm kind of a noob: that's actually a real question. I rarely ever see 4bet pots in my games.)

I'm trying to think about what he would flat your 4bet with but check behind on the flop. Wouldn't he bet the flop with AK, AQ, and good draws? So what river cards are you worrying about? He probably wouldn't call your 4bet with T9, right? So the only way the turn 7 helps him is if he had 77.

If you CRAI as a bluff, what does he fold that beats you? He probably doesn't have AK, AQ (because he would have bet the flop with them) or A8 or some other 2pair hand (because he wouldn't call your 4 bet with them), right?

If you CRAI for value, what worse hands does he call with? Isn't AJ about as low as someone would call an AI here?

Why not bet the flop or the turn, or, as played, call the turn and bet 1/2 pot on the river for value?

[griffey24]

If villain is 3betting 16% pre then this is a very good hand to flat OOP. Also are you really 4b bluffing? Are you intending on folding to a jam pre?

As played, turn is a very easy c/c. I would bet the flop small'ish as well, because we would bet our air here. Bet $1.50ish on the flop.

[Pelion]

I plan to fold if he jams pre. What is the worst "big card" hand you would call OOP? ATs? AJo?



If we call on the turn (and I actually did in the hand) what is our plan on:
a) diamonds b) straight cards c) blanks?


A lot of rivers are fairly scary and we have a 100bb potsized shove behind for the river.

[Pelion]

I'm trying to think about what he would flat your 4bet with but check behind on the flop. Wouldn't he bet the flop with AK, AQ, and good draws? So what river cards are you worrying about? He probably wouldn't call your 4bet with T9, right? So the only way the turn 7 helps him is if he had 77.

The problem is, my 4bet is so small that he actually gets pretty decent odds to call in position with something like A9s or JTs. I don't think I've narrowed his range much preflop.

[Malbrack]

If we call on the turn (and I actually did in the hand) what is our plan on: a) diamonds b) straight cards c) blanks

If you are worried about draws, then why did you check the flop and turn? Can't you value bet the turn after he checks through on the flop, since his check reduces the possibility that he has sets or AQ+? Wouldn't a turn bet of like 2.60 get him to fold a lot of his draws, since he would only have around 18% chance to hit his flush with one card to come? Are you worried about getting semi-bluffed off your hand?

(I'm sorry if I keep asking you stupid questions; I just don't understand why you took this line or why you were thinking about a CRAI. Maybe I am missing something because I am so used to playing with level 1 players where bet/fold is king.)

[Pascal]

If he check/raises turn, he folds out all of villains bluffs and puts himself in a really awkward spot against a shove. We can expect villain to shove all his draws rather than bet/call them, and even if he does bet call them what do you do on the river?

Not c-betting caps your range so you should just c-bet IMO

[daviddem]

+1 to cbet flop about 1.4.

As played, I think you can c/c the turn and pretty much check/re-eval any river. He may be betting the turn with just about anything (two pairs, set, straight, 99-KK, draw or complete air). A lot of his range is just as worried as you are about a straight card or a flush card.

I'd make the 4b pre a little bigger oop. I also would say it's a decent spot to flat the 3b oop if you ever do so.

Now post the river card and let's see...

[griffey24]

If we call on the turn (and I actually did in the hand) what is our plan on:
a) diamonds b) straight cards c) blanks?


A lot of rivers are fairly scary and we have a 100bb potsized shove behind for the river.

You've gotten yourself into a 4b pot, with TPGK vs an aggro. There is no folding for me here, the only question is how the money is going in. You betting or him betting.

Now that you've taken a c/c line, then we are c/c any river, cause any "scare card" might be perceived by this kind of villain as a good bluffing card.

[Pelion]

River

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, €0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com
UTG (€7.85)
MP (€4.60)
CO (€20.01)
Button (€7.85)
Hero (SB) (€13.68)
BB (€14.03)
Preflop: Hero is SB with ,
4 folds, Hero bets €0.30, BB raises to €0.90, Hero raises to €2, BB calls €1.10
Flop: (€4) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks
Turn: (€4) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets €2.30, Hero calls €2.30

River: €8.60

Hero checks, BB shoves €9(ish), Hero ?



I really want to call. I don't feel villain has a TP all that often. I feel he would usually keep raising AA/KK/AK (and probably QQ) preflop given the dynamic. I also feel I have massively capped my range here, and he should see me as weak. If he's rivered some straight/set/something I'd expect him to bet smaller often.

What I don't like is that a lot of speculative preflop hands which he would often want to bluff on the river have now hit 2pair or a straight.

Thoughts? Put him on TJs and call?

Is he ever bluffing JJ/QQ here?

[griffey24]

The way you played this hand, confusesthe situation sooo bad!

If I'm villain I put the top of your range at QQ-KK, and some other random 8x, 7x type 4b bluffs that c/c the turn.

I would comfortably be jamming any Ax hand I have here on the river. The confusing thing is that if he's an aggro he's prob betting most Ax on the flop, and certainly betting AQ if he has it. He's also for sure betting A8/A6 if he has those.

Assuming the only low Ax hands he's 3b and peeling are suited, the only two pairs he can have are A7dd and A5dd, but I'd imagine he'd very likely bet tp nut fd on flop so eliminate those.

So jamming the river is A2-A4hh, A9hh, AThh, AQo/AQs (discounted since most bet flop?). Maybe one or two Axdd combos. 78cc, 78ss, one combo of 89s (maybe the others ck back turn), maybe one 67s. Those are for value I suppose.

Who knows how many bluffs he might have here, he gets to the turn with his entire preflop 4b peeling range.

Not betting this flop is one thing, but not betting this turn is criminal!