[5NL] KQo, OOP, river decision.

[daviddem]

^^ What is your plan if you bet the flop and get raised?

River I really don't know between b/f, c/c or c/f. Waiting for yAAwn and Spoon...
b/f small: you might still get some value from a one pair hand and block bluffs
c/c: some bluffs in his range, may turn a pair into a bluff, but if he bets any significant amount we have to fold
c/f: if we think he almost never bluffs here

meh... maybe I like the small b/f best

edit: call pre is OK. Against a significantly tighter opp raising a limper I would tend to fold.

[Savy]

^^ What is your plan if you bet the flop and get raised?

Fold. If I was to play with villain a lot, make note of how often he was raising here and adjust accordingly

Interesting. I was going to lead the flop as well but decided at last minute not to as it was a pretty wet board.

What does checking achieve? On a wet board like this with TP when you're going to call a decent sized bet anyway you may aswell bet yourself.

Checking and your opponent bets tells us nothing as he could be having a stab at taking down a wet board with nothing as it's checked to him or he could have a real hand.

Checking and your opponent checking also tells us nothing, and it allows him to see a free card which as the board is so wet makes us hate our hand more.

At least if you bet and get called you know he'll have thrown away a lot of the rubbish in his hand making it an easier fold on a later street and if you get raised you can be pretty certain you're behind and fold.

[Icanhastreebet]

Fold. If I was to play with villain a lot, make note of how often he was raising here and adjust accordingly


1. What does checking achieve? On a wet board like this with TP when you're going to call a decent sized bet anyway you may aswell bet yourself.

Checking and your opponent bets tells us nothing as he could be having a stab at taking down a wet board with nothing as it's checked to him or he could have a real hand.

2. Checking and your opponent checking also tells us nothing, and it allows him to see a free card which as the board is so wet makes us hate our hand more.

3. At least if you bet and get called you know he'll have thrown away a lot of the rubbish in his hand making it an easier fold on a later street and if you get raised you can be pretty certain you're behind and fold.

1 and 3, you make it sound like you want to bet for information. This isn't why we are betting. Refer back to the reasons I listed

2. When opponent checks behind on a flop texture like this it narrows his range drastically since he suddenly doesn't have the top 25-30%(random estimate) of his flopping range now.

[Cobra_1878]

Fold. If I was to play with villain a lot, make note of how often he was raising here and adjust accordingly


What does checking achieve? On a wet board like this with TP when you're going to call a decent sized bet anyway you may aswell bet yourself.

Checking and your opponent bets tells us nothing as he could be having a stab at taking down a wet board with nothing as it's checked to him or he could have a real hand.

Checking and your opponent checking also tells us nothing, and it allows him to see a free card which as the board is so wet makes us hate our hand more.

At least if you bet and get called you know he'll have thrown away a lot of the rubbish in his hand making it an easier fold on a later street and if you get raised you can be pretty certain you're behind and fold.

If I check, I can't be raised. At the time of the hand, I wasn't sure what I would do if raised, now I know I should fold but at the time I didn't know that.

If opponent checks behind on flop, I can be pretty sure I have the best hand and have managed to keep the pot small with a marginal hand.

1 and 3, you make it sound like you want to bet for information. This isn't why we are betting. Refer back to the reasons I listed

2. When opponent checks behind on a flop texture like this it narrows his range drastically since he suddenly doesn't have the top 25-30%(random estimate) of his flopping range now.

Is there something wrong with doing this?

[Savy]

Is there something wrong with doing this?

Yeah, because there are much more important factors to consider. I did mean we were also betting for value and the information is a helpful byproduct of this, however things like relative position didn't even enter my mind.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Is there something wrong with doing this?

Gaining information from a bet is a nice side-effect of a bet, but it is never a reason to bet.

[griffey24]

Leading the flop to fold to a raise here is kind of meh, if villain is capable of raising with QJ/JT/JJ type stuff, not to mention tons of combo draws.

I would probably ck re/eval this river. On a flush card some players could conceivably check back Jx on turn. You're probably more likely to pickoff a bluff than called by worse on river.

[Icanhastreebet]

Leading the flop to fold to a raise here is kind of meh, if villain is capable of raising with QJ/JT/JJ type stuff, not to mention tons of combo draws.

I think this happens a % very close to 0.