[5NL] JJ, IP, 3bet pot, river spot.

[spoonitnow]

I think you're drastically overestimating how hard it is to learn basic algebra. If you can add, subtract, multiply and divide, then you're already like 90% there. Just learn how to use variables and you're good.

[Cobra_1878]

I think you're drastically overestimating how hard it is to learn basic algebra. If you can add, subtract, multiply and divide, then you're already like 90% there. Just learn how to use variables and you're good.

Can you answer the FD question for me please.

I just had a look at the link that DoubleJ posted and I was so far off from the right answer in the first example it was unbelievable.

[spoonitnow]

Can you answer the FD question for me please.

I just had a look at the link that DoubleJ posted and I was so far off from the right answer in the first example it was unbelievable.

Yeah you're pretty far off. It depends on the pot size and everything as far as exact numbers go, but you've got to take into account how much you'll pay them off on average and what kind of odds you're giving them. Quick example to show you what I mean, but say the pot is $3 with $4 stacks. If you bet $1, then they're getting 4:1 right away (they're calling $1 with a pot that's now $4). The basic thing that algebra does is allow you to take all of these unknowns into account without making things too complicated.

[Cobra_1878]

Yeah you're pretty far off. It depends on the pot size and everything as far as exact numbers go, but you've got to take into account how much you'll pay them off on average and what kind of odds you're giving them. Quick example to show you what I mean, but say the pot is $3 with $4 stacks. If you bet $1, then they're getting 4:1 right away (they're calling $1 with a pot that's now $4). The basic thing that algebra does is allow you to take all of these unknowns into account without making things too complicated.

I figured I was wrong but thought I would give it a shot.

I meant could you show me how to answer that question in full, using a specific made up example.

There doesn't have to be unknowns though. If you used a specific example then you would have all the info you needed and there would be no need for algebra right?

[spoonitnow]

I figured I was wrong but thought I would give it a shot.

I meant could you show me how to answer that question in full, using a specific made up example.

There doesn't have to be unknowns though. If you used a specific example then you would have all the info you needed and there would be no need for algebra right?

This example is going to take a lot longer to do because I'm going to try to break down the thought process. If you were given this situation and had to solve it, you could do so in about 30-45 seconds with a very basic understanding of algebra.

Say the pot is $2 with $4 left behind on the turn. We're heads-up with a hand like top pair, top kicker. Villain has 9 outs, so 9/46 chance to hit on the river. We're betting X on the turn with the assumption that he's calling. Say that we're always going to pay off a river shove no matter what for the sake of this example. Then on the river, we're going to be calling $4 - X since that's how much he'll have left in his stack ($4 stack on the turn minus the X turn bet).

A total of 9/46 of the time, Villain is going to win the $2 pot on the turn, the X bet on the turn that he called, and the $4 - X bet on the river that we call. However, the other 37/46 of the time, he just loses his X bet on the turn that he called. We can say that our EV of the turn bet with these assumptions is defined with this equation:

EV = (9/46)(2 + X + (4 - X)) + (37/46)(-X)

We want to know what bet size (X) will make our EV zero. We want to know this because it tells us the smallest amount that we can bet:

(9/46)(2 + X + (4 - X)) + (37/46)(-X) = 0

Now we'll use basic rules of algebra to rearrange the equation so that we have X = some number.

(9/46)(2 + X + (4 - X)) + (37/46)(-X) = 0

I'll skip what those steps are for now, but we find out the X = $1.46 in this particular scenario.

To give another quick example to put this into perspective: If the original pot was $3 instead of $2, then X would be $1.70. That makes sense because we have to bet more to give our opponent worse odds.


Edit: Most people are intimidated by algebra because letters (variables) are used in equations. All you need to know about them is that they are placeholders for numbers that we don't know yet. You go ahead and write out the equations that you need with the variables in them, and then you can manipulate things to figure out what the variables are. That's all that there is to algebra, and it just requires addition, subtraction, multiplication and division along with a few basic ideas that show you how to move stuff around in a productive way to get what you want.

Edit #2: If you don't understand 100% where the EV equation came from, that's fine. I show how to do that in my thread called something like the mathematics of EV.