Flush on turn. Missed value or correct play?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I don't really like the bet OTF. I don't hate it, as this board is scary and your bluff might work. If you're going to bet this flop, then you really must have a plan for what happens when you get called. You need to have pre-considered what each villains range is to call or raise.

A good rule of thumb is to avoid drawing on paired boards. But then, I assume you were planning on giving up if you didn't catch a club, anyway.

My spidey sense starts is tingling when he raises OTT. I can't find a fold, but I just want a cheap showdown at this point. So you can see that betting the flop leaves you in a very difficult spot to achieve your implied odds on your draw.

sighcall OTR. You have a flush, and unless you've seen Villain check it down OOP with trips, you have to include all Ax in his range. To be clear, Villain is V-towning you with the bet OTR, it's just a matter if he thinks trips is a good hand to bet for value after the turn line. There are always the other flushes.

You should never raise a paired board OTR with less than a boat. Or a read that Villain folds big hands to raises OTR (lol, sometimes they show you).

Argggghhh the pain! the PAIN!! How can you fold, but it's sooooo close that I wouldn't be surprised if we're beat way more than the odds of a call dictate.

I'm not sure you can rule out 88 from Villain's range. I doubt he has QQ+,AQ+ though. A sensible player does not slow-play from the SB to a UTG limp. A sensible player doesn't give away free cards to the BB when they have a nut hand. (AQo is still a nut hand pre-flop to no raise, right?).

[davisrei]

I don't really like the bet OTF. I don't hate it, as this board is scary and your bluff might work. If you're going to bet this flop, then you really must have a plan for what happens when you get called. You need to have pre-considered what each villains range is to call or raise.

My thinking was that this is an excellent bluffing flop, either for myself, or for my opponent. If I raise the pot, and get re-raised, then I can fold knowing that I've only lost the flop bet. And that the addition of the fold equity might give me a decent stab at getting the right expressed odds for the turn card.

[more thinking now] Additionally, it might buy me a free turn card toward my flush if my opponent is holding trips and thinks that I might continue betting on the turn, but would be scared off if he took control of the hand on the turn, or re-raised the flop. Also, if I don't bet, he can lead out on the turn with anything and force a fold if a blank hits.

Good point on the call/fold range. I was thinking more about his fold/raise range here.

A good rule of thumb is to avoid drawing on paired boards. But then, I assume you were planning on giving up if you didn't catch a club, anyway.

Absolutely. If he didn't fold to the flop bet, then this was a mandatory c/f situation unless that club hit.

My spidey sense starts is tingling when he raises OTT. I can't find a fold, but I just want a cheap showdown at this point. So you can see that betting the flop leaves you in a very difficult spot to achieve your implied odds on your draw.

sighcall OTR. You have a flush, and unless you've seen Villain check it down OOP with trips, you have to include all Ax in his range. To be clear, Villain is V-towning you with the bet OTR, it's just a matter if he thinks trips is a good hand to bet for value after the turn line. There are always the other flushes.

You should never raise a paired board OTR with less than a boat. Or a read that Villain folds big hands to raises OTR (lol, sometimes they show you).

Argggghhh the pain! the PAIN!! How can you fold, but it's sooooo close that I wouldn't be surprised if we're beat way more than the odds of a call dictate.

I'm not sure you can rule out 88 from Villain's range. I doubt he has QQ+,AQ+ though. A sensible player does not slow-play from the SB to a UTG limp. A sensible player doesn't give away free cards to the BB when they have a nut hand. (AQo is still a nut hand pre-flop to no raise, right?).

Yes, and I agree, this was probably a thin value situation. So, thanks for the answer. I was probably right to not attempt to jam the pot OTR. Lots of good info to think about here.