96s in the blinds vs fish limp and reg iso

[supa]

Fold pre. C/f flop.

[pocketfours]

Fold pre. C/f flop.

How can you checkfold this flop when you hit gin? Seems pretty standard to c/c flop and bet river, but c/r isn't out of the question. Hate leading though.

[daven]

ok, this hand has made me do a lot of thinking about poker - which is great. Thanks to those who talked about it in irc, and to all who have posted in this thread. I even went and re-read some of isf's articles cos i thought i remember one of them being related. Then i started thinking about draws and ranges and fold equity in general. Go talk about hands, it will get you thinking about poker and probably won't make you a worse player as a consequence!

preflop - we have a pretty shitty speculative hand. CO's range isn't that strong cos he's a 13% pfr who is isolating a fish limper from lp. Is he going to end up flopping big enough to be paying us off heaps? not that likely. And given that we are mostly flopping draws with this hand then hmmm. If we could guarantee that utg+1 is coming along for the ride then calling becomes less bad - and vs an 86% vpip this is close to a guarantee. 100bb deep and this is an auto-muck. 126bb effective and it's closer. If this was vs an ep reg open and a lp fish call and we were closing the action then this is a call (perfect relative position, guarantee that the fish will be playing postflop).

flop - we pretty much hit the best we can hope for. An open ended straight draw and a backdoor flush draw multiway with a fish. What we want is to see a turn cheaply and turn the nuts vs a hand that is strong enough to pay us off. So, options.
Donk. Given that the board is drawy (twotone, connected), it is very likely that cutoff will be raising a donk with his strong hands, especially if the fish in utg+1 calls. Donk-calling means a very expensive turn. Donking also encourages the fish to fold, and when the fish calls we don't want to be barrelling as a bluff.
check-call. Fish is passive. If he bets here then we're likely to get direct pot odds to call, and if not then we can rely on something implied. Reg is in a multiway pot with a fish on a drawy board. It's unlikely that he is going to cbet here without a made hand, exactly the hands we want to be up against it when we turn the nuts. If the board checks through then we get a free turn, and give both players the chance to improve to second best hands if we hit.


turns out that it comes down to range. How about that. Anyway, preflop close, call not absolutely terrible, folding obviously fine (better?) too. Flop. Check. Not close. Check-call most of the time cos it's going to be rare that check-raising is going to make any sense.

also turns out that p4s snap response is gold. Again, not surprising...

How can you checkfold this flop when you hit gin? Seems pretty standard to c/c flop and bet river, but c/r isn't out of the question. Hate leading though.

[supa]

How can you checkfold this flop when you hit gin? Seems pretty standard to c/c flop and bet river, but c/r isn't out of the question. Hate leading though.

Probably thinking about it wrong but seeing how we're multiway and UTG+1 is probably sitting on a pretty speculative hand (guess we really don't have enough info to base that on) we can't assume we have 8 clean outs to our open ender.

Iunno, seems like we can keep piling money into this hand only to fold when we miss, not get paid off, or stack ourselves to better.