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  1. #1
    rpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    JQ hand is interesting. Shame there isn't a heart among that flopped junk. Discount 22-66 a bunch vs this villain, but still check it back and prepare to raise the turn
    i'm curious as to the rationale for raising turn leads? seems like that's just too often going to perceived as the reg deciding too late in the hand that its time to start bluffing when he credibly reps nothing. obviously depends a lot on hero's strategy (or more specifically, villain's perception of it), i don't have any remotely strong hands i check back this flop with.

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    you have more nut hands in your range than he does, i'm not sure how relevant that is though, cos your range is still mostly a couple of overcards + sometimes a gutter
    certainly true when i make the initial CB, though the point i was trying to make by comparing the size of our "nut ranges" was that i feel i can peel vs C/R's pretty wide here because they will often just be Ax trying to attack a perceived weak range, and my range (once it's narrowed down by my continuing vs a C/R, when i will almost always just call) is far stronger than villains because he seldom has more than 9 combinations of nuts, and i have 3-4x times that many, all of which i will just call vs a C/R so villain can hang himself on later streets if he wants.

    ... maybe i'm thinking too deeply about this

    thanks for reading+commenting to both you and beano
    Last edited by rpm; 11-01-2012 at 10:34 PM.
  2. #2
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    qualifier - been drinking and i feel like i use the word 'range' too often below..

    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    i'm curious as to the rationale for raising turn leads? seems like that's just too often going to perceived as the reg deciding too late in the hand that its time to start bluffing when he credibly reps nothing. obviously depends a lot on hero's strategy (or more specifically, villain's perception of it), i don't have any remotely strong hands i check back this flop with.
    key is, does villain believe this is the case? it isn't the case for a lot of players. Think is, if you check back KJo type of hands then there are a lot of hands you hit a pair with, vs his turned still nada, right?

    people like to scoop unwanted pots. This pot looks unloved when you check back. People rarely raise turns, so when you do it's a hard spot for villain to play against most of the time when he donks. And villains will donk a lot here. You CAN check back nut hands on this flop, and probably should some of the time. As it stands, once you hit the turn your range turns top pair+ a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    the point i was trying to make by comparing the size of our "nut ranges" was that i feel i can peel vs C/R's pretty wide here because they will often just be Ax trying to attack a perceived weak range, and my range (once it's narrowed down by my continuing vs a C/R, when i will almost always just call) is far stronger than villains because he seldom has more than 9 combinations of nuts, and i have 3-4x times that many, all of which i will just call vs a C/R so villain can hang himself on later streets if he wants.

    ... maybe i'm thinking too deeply about this
    if you peel vs check-raises then how are you planning to take it down given that you are only rarely winning at showdown unimproved?

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