99 in bb to multiway pot

[Zorkion]

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($6.10)
Hero (BB) ($15.02)
UTG ($10.97)
UTG+1 ($12.25)
MP1 ($10.45)
MP2 ($7.13)
MP3 ($4.72)
CO ($6.16)
Button ($11.37)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, 9
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.55) 7, 10, 10 (5 players)
Hero bets $0.35, UTG+1 calls $0.35, MP2 calls $0.35, 2 folds

Turn: ($1.60) Q (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets $1.60, Hero folds, UTG+1 raises to $4, 1 fold

Total pot: $4.80 | Rake: $0.32


thoughts on preflop/flop actions?

i know the flop bet is questionable. my reasoning was to fold out overcard hands that could draw out, to get some value from 7x hands/ lower pps who would presumably check turns, along with drawing hands which would check missed turn cards(folding to any raise on flop). turn plan was to c/f to any cards but nuts (or c/c underbets).

that all said, there are a lot of cards out there, so theres a pretty good chance that someones got a t, or another decent hand.

[acg123]

I think you assessed yourself well. I think flop bet is ok,but I probably would of just checked,with the plan of seeing what everyone else does. Possibly call or fold, depending on bet sizing and pot odds.

[thelorax]

id start by raising pre...

[daven]

id start by raising pre...

pre is absolutely fine
check flop

[supa]

I'm not happy about seeing a flop multiway with 99 so if we're gonna put anymore money in the pot (besides the blind) I'd rather do it pre.

[daven]

I'm not happy about seeing a flop multiway with 99 so if we're gonna put anymore money in the pot (besides the blind) I'd rather do it pre.

how much? it's gonna go 5-way really often if hero raises and then he's oop in a bloated pot with nines.

[thelorax]

we have the best hand so often here pre.
how is it ok to see a limped flop like 5 way?

[thelorax]

/ why are we checking flop?
this is not a bad flop for our hand.

[supa]

how much? it's gonna go 5-way really often if hero raises and then he's oop in a bloated pot with nines.

Thinking about this.

[daven]

spoonfeeding time

we have the best hand so often here pre.
how is it ok to see a limped flop like 5 way?

what is most likely to happen if hero raises pre?
is this a good situation for hero?
do you raise TJs from the big blind here?
why not?
is TJs that much weaker than 99?

/ why are we checking flop?
this is not a bad flop for our hand.

is hero bluffing or value-betting if he bets here?
what worse hands are calling?
is hero even that good against these hands?
what turn cards does hero like if he bets and gets one or more callers? (forget 2-outers)
is hero planning on running a multi-street bluff vs station fish?

[baudib]

I'd check pre, it's so likely we'll get a huge 4-5-way pot OOP.

[rpm]

@advocators of checking pre:

i agree that if we are usually going to to the flop 5-way then checking is definitely best, but is that always necessarily going to be the case? how big would you be making IF you were to raise here? personally i'd be raising to nothing less than $1 and expecting no more than 2/4 callers. though i might be out of touch with how these games play.

[thelorax]

id probably make it .95+ pre and expect at least half of the field to fold.
were getting value from 7x, Spade draws ( QJs+ or whatever we expect villain calling ranges to be), and bluff catchers that think we c-bet paired boards too often eg AsX or PPs <99.
id assume/hope that no one is limping behind here with JJ+...

[Shotglass]

spoonfeeding time

Where is spoon anyways?

about the hand:

Pre is fine.
With that many limpers 99 is limited to mostly set mining value.
Re-read daven's questions and then think about what the other players could possibly be holding. Think about what you're doing instead of just dumping $$$ into the pot on what will prolly wind up being 2nd or 3rd best hand by the river.
Check flop.

[rpm]

i personally think there can be a case made for betting flop for value from 7x and draws (which, combination-wise, are more common in villain's ranges than Tx), as well as for protecting our equity (OH MY GOD I SAID IT). though i realise how many turn cards suck for us to play, especially OOP. and that said, i generally wouldn't have got to the flop in a limped pot, for better or worse. so i may be being kind of biased.

[Carroters]

Meh, don't mind preflop This hand is around my cut off for raising/not raising here. If I had TT, I go ahead and make it like 0.85. I disagree that you'll get 5 callers etc if you size correctly. That said, being oop in a bloated pot even 3 ways with 99 isn't a great situation. I probably check here.

As for flop, I'd probably just c/f 5 ways here, life sucks when we get called and villains prolly play more Tz combos than 7x preflop, balancing the fact that trips is harder to flop than a pair. Someone has a T here pretty often and yeah most draws have shitloads of equity vs us. C/F seems like a fun plan to me.

Turn is ldfo standard.

[rpm]

villains prolly play more Tz combos than 7x preflop, balancing the fact that trips is harder to flop than a pair.

this is a good point. one which i overlooked.

[thelorax]

think about what the other players could possibly be holding. Think about what you're doing instead of just dumping $$$ into the pot on what will prolly wind up being 2nd or 3rd best hand by the river.

lol wat

as i said earlier, we have the best hand pre here a huge %age of the time, thats why i like raising pre- i consider that "think"ing aboout what other players are possibly holding.
that being said, i realize that there are some gross cards that can peel off post, but c/fing just seems so weak/ like giving away our equity.

[thelorax]

villains prolly play more Tz combos than 7x preflop, balancing the fact that trips is harder to flop than a pair.

this is an interesting point.

do you think if we raise pre it significantly reduces the amount of Tx combos seeing a flop? ...I guess it prolly kinda depends how many callers we get and how stationy the tables been.

op, have any reads/stats?

[supa]

My original point wasn't that raising pre was great (tho I would) but that once we see the flop we're not gonna have a ton of FE on most boards, which obv brings our equity down. If we check pre then I think we need to c/f most flops.

I haven't been to 10nl since before black friday but at 4nl on cake I'd expect to get a lot of folds if we raise to $.80 pre. Actually I'd expect to take the pot down right there a large % of the time.

Question, if we think a bunch of limping monkeys are gonna call a proper raise in this situation, would we ever want to open 99 utg on this table?

[Shotglass]

lol wat

as i said earlier, we have the best hand pre here a huge %age of the time, thats why i like raising pre- i consider that "think"ing aboout what other players are possibly holding.
that being said, i realize that there are some gross cards that can peel off post, but c/fing just seems so weak/ like giving away our equity.

lol?!?!

you really do need to be spoon-fed, don't you?
My response was intended to get you to thinking about the way you play, and you respond sarcastically until someone hands you the information. Carroters isn't going to be there to click buttons for you so use your brain once in a while.

[thelorax]

lol?!?!
Carroters isn't going to be there to click buttons for you so use your brain once in a while.

ha
im sure we'd both be much better players if he was.

care to elaborate as to why you think we should play our hand a certain way?

/i didnt mean to be sarcastic in my other post, sorry if you were offended for some reason.

[Shotglass]

ha
im sure we'd both be much better players if he was.

care to elaborate as to why you think we should play our hand a certain way?

/i didnt mean to be sarcastic in my other post, sorry if you were offended for some reason.

sometimes I just get bitchy, sorry for snapping at you.

The OP didn't give any stats or reads on his opponents but since we've got a NLHE limpfest happening, I'd say that our value from any pocket pair TT or lower will come from a set. Why would I want to lower my implied odds by raising pre and giving the opponents another round of betting? Especially since limp-raising has become so popular.

OTF, since it was all limping pf, I say that we're up against at least one FD, a few overcards and more than likely some random Tx. c/f on the flop. Unless, of course you're planning to run a multistreet bluff which is suicide to your stack vs this many opponents.

Defo fold on the turn.

[thelorax]

its cool man.

I agree that this isnt a great flop in a 5way limped pot for 99, but theres not all that many flops im gunna be comfortable with limped 5 way in general, thats why i thought raising pre was best. However, it appears the main consensus is checking pre is best, which i still have my doubts about.
In a raised pot with, say, half the players, this flop becomes a bit better for our hand (which is why i was saying this isnt a bad flop for 99 earlier) and we can expect to get raised by Tx very often when we continue on the flop due to texture, especially if were 3 way. We can be called by all sorts of hands that we have equity against, not crushing by anymeans, but ahead of -and i tend to like betting when im ahead.
idk just kinda rambling at this point/not entirely convinced checking pre and c/f'ing flop is so great.

yeah turn is obviously a fold, but im not questioning the turn play.

[lolpwnt]

limping pre is fine and just check/fold flop

[Carroters]

My original point wasn't that raising pre was great (tho I would) but that once we see the flop we're not gonna have a ton of FE on most boards, which obv brings our equity down. If we check pre then I think we need to c/f most flops.

I haven't been to 10nl since before black friday but at 4nl on cake I'd expect to get a lot of folds if we raise to $.80 pre. Actually I'd expect to take the pot down right there a large % of the time.

Question, if we think a bunch of limping monkeys are gonna call a proper raise in this situation, would we ever want to open 99 utg on this table?

It might be the case that we have to c/f most flops, but remember that checking is still +EV since the times we c/f our EV is 0 and the times we continue we're very much +EV due to having flopped a set or good overpair etc. So yeah we might c/f a lot postflop, but that's fine. If we're raising preflop, we're often creating a situation where we're c/f into a bigger pot having already invested 7bbs or w/e more. This is obviously far worse thancchecking to c/f a lot. If we think we can c bet with FE/flop the best hand often enough/isolate one villain or maybe 2 max and outplay our opponents postflop (hard without position) then riaisng could be better, in this case I feel like we don't have enough of these factors in our favour to bloat a pot and still be in shit spots or c/f spots post flop.

[Carroters]

And yeah I'd rather open 99 UTG than raise here for a few reasons.

[d0zer]

I would raise pre 100% of the time

[Hoopy]

Reads would be useful. Checking pre is ok imo.

Check/fold flop, value bet is too thin vs 4 opponents.

If it checks round bet brick turns.