to wuf: faultlines and the rich, obama's failings

[Numbr2intheWorld]

1. you lose your farm
Who cares if I lose my farm I'm a greedy asshole.

2. efficiency increases (theoretically) but fewer people have jobs.
Efficieny increases yes (I don't get how this is a theory... if I can spend less to do the same thats textbook efficiency increase). If you're saying fewer people have jobs in the tomato industry becuase of this, you would be right. I hope you're not saying that people in the US would have less jobs overall because that's total nonsense.

I suppose more people getting cheaper, perhaps better tomatoes is a possible
(although not certain) result as well
So we should protect my farm so people get shittier, more expensive tomatoes?

The fact that you think having a free tomato cloning iphone app would be a "problem" shows an incredible lack of understanding of basic economics.

[CoccoBill]

2. efficiency increases (theoretically) but fewer people have jobs.
Efficieny increases yes (I don't get how this is a theory... if I can spend less to do the same thats textbook efficiency increase). If you're saying fewer people have jobs in the tomato industry becuase of this, you would be right. I hope you're not saying that people in the US would have less jobs overall because that's total nonsense.

From where would the extra jobs elsewhere in the US arise to counteract the decrease? The efficiency would run through all industries.

[baudib]

The fact that you think having a free tomato cloning iphone app would be a "problem" shows an incredible lack of understanding of basic economics.

I actually agree with you more than wuf (particularly on gov't regulation) but I really need to be enlightened -- your reasoning makes no sense to me.

I'm pretty sure if farming tomatoes is your livelihood and you go out of business, that's not a net positive for you.

Cutting labor and/or production costs doesn't guarantee greater long-term profits if your outsourced farmers no longer produce the world's greatest tomatoes.

How are no jobs lost in the U.S. if the farming jobs go to India?

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I actually agree with you more than wuf (particularly on gov't regulation) but I really need to be enlightened -- your reasoning makes no sense to me.

I'm pretty sure if farming tomatoes is your livelihood and you go out of business, that's not a net positive for you.

It isn't a net positive for me (although if I find another job it won't be that bad). But if we could make free tomatoes that would be a huge net positive for the entire world. In the same way, cheaper tomatoes are also a net positive for society because it allows a) everyone who wants a tomato to have one and b) people to spend the fruits of their time and labor (aka money and wealth) on something else.

Cutting labor and/or production costs doesn't guarantee greater long-term profits if your outsourced farmers no longer produce the world's greatest tomatoes.

That's a choice I have to make, should I outsource and make cheaper worse tomatoes or do I think people will demand high quality tomatoes from my US workers. But if I could outsource cheaper labor and have the same Tomato quality the answer seems easy.

How are no jobs lost in the U.S. if the farming jobs go to India?
If I'm outsourcing my farming to India, it means Indias labor is cheaper or better. I end up saving money for myself and my customers who end up spending the extra money and "creating" jobs. Furthermore, I am not taking away the ability of anyone to work and create something of value, which means they can still create wealth (Farm something else, build a house, become a computer programmer, etc). If a tomato farmer can not profitably grow tomatoes anymore, does he never work again and die? Of course not. We may be "losing" farming jobs but we aren't losing jobs, we're actually gaining them.

Think about it, over the last two decades we've "lost" tens of millions of jobs to India and China. Before the housing crash of 2008, our unemployment rate was going down. Why didn't it go skyrocketing? Deh took er jobssss

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1890-2009.gif

[pantherhound]

So how long does the US actually have to pay back its debt that mathematically can't be paid back?

[BennyLaRue]

So how long does the US actually have to pay back its debt that mathematically can't be paid back?

Around 8000 years. They're hoping Y10K will wipe it all out.