Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[wufwugy]

They are doing the right thing with Sansa though. Here's to hoping nothing gets in the way of her revenge

[wufwugy]

Oh and I totally forgot: Rickon is gonna turn out evil. He's gotta. His doggie is big black and scary. GRRM pays too much attention to symbolism.

[boost]

I understand your concerns, and I guess now that I am not high and I think about some of your points, I can agree that the human story taking a backseat to the magic story is a little worrying. That being said, there was a ton of awesome implications and even more character development. I'm pretty sure we saw more character growth in this episode than the previous 9 episodes.

Awesome shit to look forward to:

Sansa vs Jeoffrey dynamic
Tyrion vs Jeoffrey dynamic
Arya, Roberts blacksmithing bastard and Snow being badasses together up on the wall
etc...


That being said, I do think that Dany's storyline went from one of the most intriguing to probably the least interesting.

Oh and, I want to point out how awesome it is that we did not get cliff hangered. The show tied up pretty much every loose end, but also set us up to be hungry for more. I think this is pretty impressive, since every other show on the air cliff hangers the shit out of you... and it always just feels like a cheap trick...

[wufwugy]

I agree, Daenerys went from most interesting to least. She's gonna become the Mad King IMO, with a lot of "burn them all" shit going on. Perhaps the witch taught her that kindness isn't rewarded.

Something will come up with Mormonts being on both sides of the fire and ice though. Lot of people think Snow will be revealed as a Targ or maybe a Stark but with special ice defense powers or something. I could see something like a White Walker slashing his ice sword on Snow's neck only to find it shatters, then Snow sinks his Valyrian steel into the WW's chest and kills it

[boost]

ugh, after reading your last post, I'm starting to get upset with the implications of more magic in the show as well. That speculation sounds like Lost speculation, not The Wire speculation. You know what I mean?

[bigspenda73]

people swear the 2nd/3rd books are a lot better than the 1st, so don't feel to pessimistic about the next few seasons

[wufwugy]

The main problem IMO is with something like "who in the hell is interested in the Baratheon's going after the throne now". Dany's got dragons now. She'll be worshiped as a god, will get the Doth back, maybe even a much larger army, and will sweep through shit like the Targs did centuries earlier. The only thing that will beat them back is Winter is Coming

I find the prospect of a seceding North, infighting Lannisters/LF/Varys, pincering Baratheons coming to claim their rightful throne, and Dothraki/Mongolian invasion much more interesting than the battle over ice and fire/dragons and walkers.

My guess is that the throne game will be played like it has been. 90% of the stuff that happens will be game of thrones, 10% will be ice and fire song, but the really pivotal stuff will be largely the latter as well

The unfortunate thing is that a story about the Wall and walkers and all that could be very awesome. Human vs monster is a great story, but I don't want it mixed with an even better human vs human story

[wufwugy]

people swear the 2nd/3rd books are a lot better than the 1st, so don't feel to pessimistic about the next few seasons

They also say book four is most contested. Could be because of how the magic starts to take over. One problem with magic is that it needs to be very mysterious in order to be cool, and after explanation it sucks (Lost, the force/midichlorians). It could be that book four and beyond starts delving deeper into the magic and thus loses much of its potency.

I'm not sure of that though because the books were named ice and fire for a reason while the show is game of thrones for a reason. But everybody is saying the show is following the books to a T, so that might not matter

[philly and the phanatics]

dude you seriously thought that "the force" sucked after they explained the midichlorians? star wars is the shit, haters can suck a dick

[wufwugy]

Please tell me you're not suggesting those prequel abortions were the shit.

[philly and the phanatics]

hahah def not, 1 and 2 were ok cause i was still really young when they came out, but episode 3 or w/e was absolutely terrible lol, i fucking hate hayden christiansen or w/e his gay ass name is

[wufwugy]

I might take back some of the crum stuff I'm saying about GoT. If the story goes along the lines of it still take Dany tremendous time and effort to cross the sea, we could see her building up her Khalisaar from a few slaves and wee dragons over the next season or two. That could be cool. So maybe she has to defeat the Dothraki before crossing the Narrow Sea

In a way, I don't have a problem with the ultimate battle of magic between ice and fire magic/monsters, but it would need to be a series climax and not appear to be a foregone conclusion. I'm not interested in ideas like the Starks don't stand a chance against a White Walker invasion or the Lannisters can't fight off dragons

[wufwugy]

hahah def not, 1 and 2 were ok cause i was still really young when they came out, but episode 3 or w/e was absolutely terrible lol, i fucking hate hayden christiansen or w/e his gay ass name is

Those films have been scientifically proven to be the worst "big" movies ever made. Not joking. It's not that they were bad, but that their production and art actually defied the laws of production and art, which made them so much worse than bad

[boost]

Ya, Dany is def not gonna be landing a fleet of transport ships on Westeros soil any time soon. Her story line will stay as isolated from the reset of the story for at least another season imo.

[bigspenda73]

Just re-watched Episode 1, I missed a bunch of stuff first time around

1. Chick staked on tree ends up being a zombie (white walker), didn't register at the time
2. Didn't realize Lady Stark's sister was married to John Aryn (sp?) and that's why she ends up at the badass secluded castle
3. Dany is alluded to as a dragon when she steps into the hot tub and doesn't feel a thing
4. TBH they never showed the youngest Stark boy the entire season, he is shown barely in ep. 1 and then all of a sudden he's in the crypt in the finale

Probably more

[philly and the phanatics]

he was in ep 9 too iirc

[wufwugy]

Rickon is in an earlier ep too talking to Bran. He's also mentioned by Robb in an ep

There is something veeerry weird going on with him. It's like he's a wraith who only appears in reality and in minds at certain times. I'm not sure Ned ever mentioned him, Cat doesn't seem to care about him, he's never with the family on anything. Something strange is up. I mean I hope to god this shit doesn't get stupid and like in season 4 we find out something silly like Rickon died 200 years ago

[bigspenda73]

he has a direwolf, so they clearly consider him part of the family now

[boost]

so what do we make of Tyrion disobeying Tywin? Maybe it's just him being the pimpin imp, but it could be foreshadowing that he turns on his family, or at least orchestrates some crazy shit that goes against what his dad wants.

[Stacks]

3. Dany is alluded to as a dragon when she steps into the hot tub and doesn't feel a thing

Also, remember the scene where she sits one of the dragon eggs on a fire, then reaches in and grabs it without getting burned, while her helper does get burned. At that point I was relatively certain she was the one with dragon's blood, rather than her brother, and I sensed that the eggs hatching was a possibility.

I guess I go against the grain in that I find Dany's storyline as one of the more interesting. This could attributed to the fact that I wouldn't be very disappointed with seeing a bit more of the fire v. ice magic storyline developing. Or because dragons are fucking awesome.

[wufwugy]

so what do we make of Tyrion disobeying Tywin? Maybe it's just him being the pimpin imp, but it could be foreshadowing that he turns on his family, or at least orchestrates some crazy shit that goes against what his dad wants.

Like Shae said, he's still young and stupid. I think one thing they're going for with Tyrion is that he has skeletons in his closet he still hangs on to (his father not loving him, being cruel, even perhaps trying to have him killed, and his obsession with whores and being afraid to love etc etc), but his character will learn to defeat those. This may be the first move he makes in no longer being "young and stupid"

[EasyT]

Perhaps it's obvious and doesn't need to be said. The only way to kill the White Walkers is to burn them. Whereas Daenerys is immune to fire. Usually special abilities like these come with special inabilities which offset some of the advantage. Daernys may be particularly vulnerable to WW, for ex.

I'm really looking forward to the Sansa story. What's the over/under on Sansa being the one to kill Jeoffrey. And probably in a way that causes the Starks some serious grief.

Love the show, and I really have enjoyed this thread of speculation w/o spoilers. Thanks, fellas!

[boost]

To be clear, there are white walkers, and then there are zombies. White walkers create zombies but are something else all together.

[bigspenda73]

Also, remember the scene where she sits one of the dragon eggs on a fire

ya, I never understood what she was doing in that scene though, what was she trying to accomplish there

Also, while the thread title says spoilers I think we can all agree that only applies to season and Book 1 at this point

[bigspenda73]

To be clear, there are white walkers, and then there are zombies. White walkers create zombies but are something else all together.

like this, it hasn't been covered by the show has it? Let's keep stuff like this to a minimum (unless I'm wrong and missed this reference)

[boost]

I have not read the books, only a little bit of back story stuff on hbogo (very little) and I've been reading/posting in the 2p2 no book spoilers thread.

In the first episode we catch a few quick glimpses of white walkers, and they are quick, agile, and carry swords or have a forearm capable of dismembering a human. They are not the same as the reanimated corpses that we saw in ep 7? 8? Also there has been onscreen talk about how they have been dormant for hundreds (thousands?) of years... as in, they are something of their own.. not just zombies.

I do agree that the title of this thread should be modified though. Maybe change it to "NO BOOK SPOILERS", which should be clear to anyone clicking on the thread that there will be talk about what has happened so far on screen...

[Stacks]

ya, I never understood what she was doing in that scene though, what was she trying to accomplish there

I don't think she was trying to accomplish anything, probably just curiousity.

One thing I'm wondering is if the Starks (and others fighting with Robb Stark) used to worship the dragons, if it's likely that they will ally with Dany at some point once they find that she again possesses dragons?

Possibly Starks/Dany versus Lannisters at some point in an attempt to put the rightful Targaryen heir on the throne? But that seems like a fairly easy win for them?

[boost]

The Starks fought against the Targaryens... no way either party wants to be friends now. Esp when Dany is gonna be marching into Westeros with a foreign army.

[wufwugy]

Dany and the hot dragon egg was her testing her abilities

Not so sure we can claim Stark/Targs will be against each other. They will for a while, but the best speculation I've seen is that Snow is Raegar Targ's and Lyanna Stark's son, and that Ned is responsible for saving Dany and Visy.

[bigspenda73]

not sure if I like the outside speculation, interweb nerds who have read the book are probably spoiling shit trying to pass off being smart

[wufwugy]

I'm pulling that from the Completely Unspoiled Speculation thread on TWoP where I think it is extremely unlikely it comes from book readers. It's the same handful of people, you can pretty much tell they haven't read the books, and it's fiercely modded by a book reader

[bigspenda73]

so they feel Snow wasn't Ned Stark's kid?

I'm going to re-watch all the eps, but there was a weird look between Lady Stark and Snow in the very first episode.

[wufwugy]

Other than that, I feel you. I feel partially spoiled just by reading that thread because they do get a bit of stuff right. They also get a ton of stuff crazy wrong though. I'll try to keep stuff out of this thread unless it's something I thought up or think I would have thought up. It's a little hard since I have confused some of my thoughts with theirs too

[wufwugy]

so they feel Snow wasn't Ned Stark's kid?

I'm going to re-watch all the eps, but there was a weird look between Lady Stark and Snow in the very first episode.

It hearkens back to why Snow is so special. Clearly, he and Dany are the two main characters, and there is sense in the ice/fire contrast between him and Dany. There is SOMETHING about his birth that we do not know yet is important. This makes it quite unlikely that it's the story Ned has been telling

At first it could seem the mother is very speical, but when you look between the lines of what Ned and Robert said about Lyanna and Raegar, you find that it's very likely they were either lovers or he was her raper. Ned having a special lover doesn't make much sense given the man is the pinnacle of honor. Maybe he had to hide his sister's child from Robert and everybody else, so he said it was his own

[bigspenda73]

yea didn't he burn his hand badly by barely touching the fire when he killed the zombie?

[wufwugy]

Also, my own take on it includes now that Ned is dead, there's no chance his mother isn't super special since they focused on his mother yet the only person who's supposed to know is now dead. Something will be revealed, and I think the most likely is that he has to be a Stark due to the dire wolf, but I also think there will be a special revelation like he's also a Targ and is the ice to Dany's fire

[wufwugy]

yea didn't he burn his hand badly by barely touching the fire when he killed the zombie?

They made certain to point that out too. Viserys burned too, and he's of the same blood as Daenerys

[boost]

wow, ya, that makes perfect sense. Ned was obviously super opposed to assassinating the Targ children, so it would fit his character perfectly for him to go to any length to protect Snow. Also, the Ned/Robert scene where they are reminiscing, Ned obv gets uncomfortable when the topic of Snow's mother is brought up since his mother is Ned's sister...

Who else knows though? I think it's pretty clear that Cat knows... but how does she end up revealing it to him? I mean, he has to find out, right?

p.s. can we get a new sig wuf? I miss the Tn'A, and the wrestling loop, while funny, tilts me as a loop for some reason.

[boost]

Also, my own take on it includes now that Ned is dead, there's no chance his mother isn't super special since they focused on his mother yet the only person who's supposed to know is now dead. Something will be revealed, and I think the most likely is that he has to be a Stark due to the dire wolf, but I also think there will be a special revelation like he's also a Targ and is the ice to Dany's fire

Ya, but if Ned's sister is his mother, then he has Stark blood too... so there's no problem with him having a wolf and not being Ned's son.

[boost]

Let's talk about Greyjoy. I think he is one of the best side characters, if not the best. I saw some speculation that he would turn on Robb... but his pledge of allegiance in the King of the North scene seemed very sincere and genuine. If he does turn on Robb/the Starks, then I think it will be way down the line, and I don't think he's got any sort of plan to do so now. There has been a good bit of development on their relationship, and I get the feeling that they both feel like they are brothas from another motha... a sort of Ned/Robert bond.

[wufwugy]

Greyjoy is representative of why the Starks are loved so much. Ned treated a prisoner of war like a member of his house

btw, might be a while before a get a sig change. One of my primary sources went down, and I can't find a site that lets me freely upload racy gifs

[wufwugy]

^^^ hey boost i got that tna gif for ya right here

either that or its one of dany's dragons all growns up

[boost]

wow, the poll dancer is srsbsns talented... I bet daddy is proud.

[wufwugy]

Forgot to post my idea of why the crypt is focused on is because when the Walkers come through, they're gonna raise the dead.

And I had another great thought. Targaryens are more dragon than it seems. Remember how Viserys said they got smaller and smaller until they died out, I think this could have something to do with Targ breeding practices. They are dragons blood, but maybe they went too far with inbreeding and for whatever reason that killed the dragons. But now the dragons could be making a comeback because it appears the Targs can no longer inbreed, especially if Snow is half Targ. It doesn't make much sense now, but I do think GRRM means to tell something important with all the inbreeding. I mean two of the four main bloodlines are known to be highly incestuous, that might not be coincidence

[boost]

random: I really hope the Baratheons and Lanisters don't suddenly get pet super bucks and super lions respectively... I like the dire wolves, and I don't mind the dragons... but I just don't want to see it over done.

[wufwugy]

lol u just know theyre gonna get michael bay to direct the episode where three stags beat up a lion

[bigspenda73]

[wufwugy]

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaa

[wufwugy]

A guess: Jaime will not die for quite some time, and when he does, it will be either at the hand of Snow or afterwards. The early episodes wrote him like a longer term character with particular foreshadowing (mainly about his unmatched sword fighting) that hasn't yet come to pass. I also get the feeling that he and Snow had a confrontation in episode 2 because it will be Snow who avenges his "father" at least partially through defeating Jaime

[boost]

Ya, I like where you're going with that. Snow has been subtly highlighted as an amazing fighter... I say subtly because his skills are mostly untested in real world conditions.

p.s. your sig is possibly the best one yet.

[wufwugy]

easily the best yet imo

[wufwugy]

Guarantee Gendry is Robert and Cersei's child. The one Cersei said died. She's nothing but a liar, went out of her way to make sure Robert was son-less, and Gendry described his mother as "yellow hair".

[baudib]

Just started getting into this. Up to episode 7 and I suspect I'll finish by the end of the night.

Some random comments:
1. In American movies and TV shows, Brits are always cast in the roles of nobility/ruling class even in a non-British milieu (good example is "Spartacus"). Who do they use in British shows? Is there merely a delineation of accent/class?

2. Is there any explanation for the planetary orbit of this world that accounts for the random and long seasons? Is it magic? Does magic exist? It has been alluded to in many different ways but it seems to have faded or been forgotten.

3. I like the use of blond hair as a recessive trait found only among the inbred noble houses.


Favorite scenes:
1. The parrying between Littlefinger and the Spider as each revealed how much they can damage the other. Classic poker.
2. Similarly, the conversation between the Queen and Robert about how much they hate each other.
3. The first time Daenarys starts to feel her Dothraki power and tells her brother, "The next time you raise your hand against me will be the last time you have hands."

[boost]

There is no explanation in the show, and I don't think that a planet's orbit can cause something like this. Even if it could, I don't think it does explain it in this fiction. Science doesn't really exist in the show, and for all we know the "planet" which it takes place on could be flat.

That's the cool/not cool thing about the genre... In the historical period that it models itself after, people believed in all sorts of superstitions as being real without reasonable evidence. In the fantasy genre these superstitions are actually real, but it's not weird because we have a historical basis for people simply believing this stuff and not questioning it. So the author doesn't really need to explain it.

[baudib]

Just finished, pretty highly satisfying. I agree that not having a cliffhanger ending was pretty boss. Cliffhangers are stupid and cheap.

I've read a ton of sci-fi and fantasy, and I suspect I will read all these books before the next season. Most of the themes here are very common and even overused:

A. The bond between twins, even seemingly disparate twins, has been done well several times. As has the role of the less-favored brother.
B. The return of the age of dragons or other mythical beasts that no one thought were real anymore.
C. Perhaps the most compelling story in all of literature, the rightful heir in exile.

Although this stuff isn't new, Martin has obviously done a fantastic job of creating deeply human and interesting characters. And HBO has done a great job as well. I felt the first few episodes were great but I kinda kept waiting for "OK let's kick some undead ass," but the political drama was much more interesting.

Agree that magic and dragons and mysticism coming to the forefront might ruin the show. "Battlestar Galactica," which IMO was at times the greatest television ever created (along with probably the best group of female characters) really went off the rails when it tried to introduce mystical b.s.

[baudib]

oh, how can I forget the other major theme of fantasy:

Heroes can come in small packages!

So I suspect that pImp or Arya will end up slaying a dragon.

What was the point of the scene with the senile adviser talking to the red-headed whore? That he sees something in Joffrey that no one else sees? Or that he's just gone batshit crazy?

[EasyT]

There is no explanation in the show, and I don't think that a planet's orbit can cause something like this. Even if it could, I don't think it does explain it in this fiction. Science doesn't really exist in the show, and for all we know the "planet" which it takes place on could be flat.

Winter may have nothing to do with planets or the weather. Winter may simply refer to the periods when shit from the north wanders south. I'm sure that in the show they'll add snow to the landscapes so we'll know it's winter. But it could in fact be that it snows on regular annual cycles, but that just because it's snowing doesn't make it Winter.

[philly and the phanatics]

no im pretty sure the season actually changes based on what you read in the book.

and what episode is the scene you are talking about (baudib) come from? cause im drawing a blank even recalling it.

[wufwugy]

Battlestar Galactica: Don't hate me, but this show was bad. I agree that the mysticism killed it, but the writing was truly adolescent. I was incredibly pissed because the story/idea is one of the best ever, and the show could have been a #1 contender if they hadn't been persistent in recruiting writers straight out of Junior High School

Heroes come in small sizes: That's part of why I have Arya killing Gregor Clegane. Also, is there a cooler name than Gregor Clegane? Seriously, it's almost as awesome as Mickey O'Malley

Seasons: remember the "old bat" telling Bran about the first Winter the Walkers appeared, snows a hundred feet deep, lords freezing in their castles, mothers smothering their babies instead of watching them starve...

Maester Pycelle (also known as Maester Treasonbeard) scene: the purpose was to show that he's not old and senile but is putting on a show. Notice how when he's alone he works out and walks fast and upright, then when he leaves he hunches and growns

[philly and the phanatics]

hahah oh yea that scene, that was hilarious

[baudib]

Battlestar Galactica: Don't hate me, but this show was bad. I agree that the mysticism killed it, but the writing was truly adolescent. I was incredibly pissed because the story/idea is one of the best ever, and the show could have been a #1 contender if they hadn't been persistent in recruiting writers straight out of Junior High School

Eh, I won't hate you but definitely feel you're selling it a little short. The writing got really annoying and they used like 47 deus ex machinas to resolve things but there was a lot to like about it. Probably the most fascinating, complex villain (Baltar) in sci-fi history; turning a lingerie model into a pretty fantastic actress. I'd put "Razor" at/near the top of my favorite sci-fi movies.

Heroes come in small sizes: That's part of why I have Arya killing Gregor Clegane. Also, is there a cooler name than Gregor Clegane? Seriously, it's almost as awesome as Mickey O'Malley

yeah, she's one of my favorite characters, definitely expect her to kill a major character. Also, I think it's possible that pImp will end up being the last Lannister standing.

[baudib]

was just working out the Snow-as-Targaryen scenario

It seems to me that Snow is clearly older than Robb Stark -- he seems to be the more experienced swordsman and is ready for serious duty on The Wall, whereas Robb is seen as a boy just coming into his manhood.

The key point is the rebellion (against the Mad King sparked by the kidnapping of Lyanna) was 15 years before the start of the series, so I'm not sure a Targaryen-Stark link works.

[wufwugy]

Naw it works perfectly. Ned returned from the war against the mad king with baby/child Snow. In fact, Snow being his kid doesn't work because he was gone for a year fighting a war, so that means that he betrayed his honor early in the campaign and through all the fighting still ended up near the same chick nine months later

Snow has to be Rhaegar/Lyanna child. Every single thing about the story works well with that, and nothing works well with Ned being the father

[baudib]

yah I agree that Ned isn't the father and there is something special about Snow's lineage. So am I off on the war being 15 years ago? Or was he like 2-3 when he was brought back?

Surely Ned would explain to his wife that Snow wasn't his son? So why would she seem so bitter toward him?

[baudib]

if the time works i'd go as far as saying your theory is pretty damned likely. Snow is more than a bastard, probably not Ned's, yet he still has very much the Stark look -- I doubt that's an accident on the part of Martin or HBO.

(if there's someone who doesn't look like a Stark, it's Sansa. FWIW, redheads in medieval/fantasy/horror fiction often possess supernatural powers).

[wufwugy]

IIRC, Robert and Cersei married for seventeen years so the war ended closer to eighteen years ago. Ned most likely wouldn't tell Cat or anybody about Snow's Targaryenness because him hiding the child would be treason and "dishonor" his sister

[baudib]

cool, I don't know where I got 15 years from then.

[boost]

I think Cat can know and still not like him. He would have the blood of a Targaryan, even though shes a great person and would never leak her husband's secret, she would likely still have strong negative feelings towards him because of his blood.

If he is a Targ, I think its like 90% that Cat does know.. and that she is the only person that knows.

edit: and her knowing sets up a pretty salad scene between her and Snow, now that Ned is dead. Her good nature may force her to drop her guard and be the loving step mother now that Ned is dead... not 100% this would go down, but it's a great opportunity for character growth imo.

[philly and the phanatics]

cat doesnt know. said scene could still exist but she def thinks he is Neds bastard (i don't know whether or not he is).

[boost]

cat doesnt know. said scene could still exist but she def thinks he is Neds bastard (i don't know whether or not he is).

way to cite a scene to support your claim..

[wufwugy]

The scene exists. It's when Ned says "he must" be Robert's Hand. She whines about him fighting Robert's wars because "he must" and returning with another woman's child

[boost]

fair enough..

just wanted sauce, kinda ridiculous to make claims and not even allude to there being any sauce.

[a500lbgorilla]

way to cite a scene to support your claim..

Citation: from the mind of philly and the phanatics. It's the only citation he needs.

[baudib]

I'm rewatching...Cat does indeed say "you left 17 years ago ... and came back with another woman's son."

[wufwugy]

Friend told me he looked up some of the reason why one of the books gets not so great reviews, and IMO it sounds more like an irritant than a problem i.e. a particular story development takes a loooong time to provide for the audience

Also, I hope (and expect) to see more lands and kingdoms open up. I expect we find more about kingdoms on the Dothraki continent that are not Dothraki, I hope that we discover cultures north of the Wall, and I think there's the small foreshadowing that we're going to be introduced to entirely new regions like Valyria or where Shae comes from or other places