Canadian Election Thread

[Penneywize]

Canada

Thoughts?

Owait what happened in 2008 again? Nah, that has nothing to do with it. Clearly Harper is at fault for the financial crisis contagion that affected virtually every country on the planet. Let's do a side-by-side comparison of budget deficits under PM's names, like they're each entirely responsible for them!

Oya, no let's raise taxes for corporations during a recession. It's the right thing to do, fuck you corporations!

Does it ever occur to you that such an argument can't be boiled down to a few statistics and percentages crammed into a silly comic strip?

[Penneywize]

Jesus I just realized that that idiotic strip went on for like 5 page lengths

soso much of it is debatable/twisted that it doesn't even warrant discussion

the climate change bit, something about Canadian media not reporting enough on it (our media is famously liberal?)

comparing G20 jailings to FLQ jailings lolwat? apples and grenades

goes on and on about budget deficits but really no mention of the stimulus packages that were debatably among the most successful in relaunching the economy out of all industrialized nations (compare our current unemployment rate to those in europe, or south of the border)

bleh, etc. honestly if you just eat shit like that up there really isn't much point in discussing this is there... either you can be convinced otherwise or you are beyond convincing.

[eugmac]

I'm actually hoping for a coalition government.

[Penneywize]

I'm actually hoping for a coalition government.

What, like Liberal / NDP / Bloc? Yeah let's get the separatists in power. It'll end well.

Listen, if it happened that Bloc didn't need to be a part of it, then it wouldn't be such a bad thing. NDP and Libs have very similar agendas (one wonders how the electoral landscape would look if the left vote werent so evenly split) and would probably have a relatively secure coalition.

Anyway, won't happen because historically the gov general asks the party with the greatest popular vote to form a government. That should be the Conservatives, so we're probably looking at another conservative minority?

[JL]

I'm not 100% sure who I am voting for. I know more about American politics, and if I was American I would vote Liberal. However, isn't Obama just as far right wing as the Conservatives are in Canada?

[BennyLaRue]

Anyway, won't happen because historically the gov general asks the party with the greatest popular vote to form a government. That should be the Conservatives

Right, but the Cons would be able to pass nothing if the coalition were large enough and then Parliament would pass a non-confidence motion as soon as they could and the Governor General would turn to a coalition if one was already organized, rather than call yet another election.

[Warpe]

Tide is turning in Quebec. This could (finally) get interesting:

NDP on track to win 60 seats, poll projects - The Globe and Mail

[Warpe]

Or really, really interesting:

Jack finds his groove, NDP in reach of official opposition, says new Forum Research poll | The Hill Times - Canada's Politics and Government Newsweekly

[Warpe]

Political Perspectives » Blog Archive » The NDP numbers: some random thoughts

[StillDeadMoney]

Canada

Thoughts?

Style over substance.

[StillDeadMoney]

He's pushed for increased military spending,

For what he wants to do with the military, he needs it. Canada's military is a joke right now in terms of what it can do and how up-to-date its technology is. Not to mention the issue of arctic sovereignty:

Battle for the Arctic heats up - Canada - CBC News

warrantless e-surveillance (ala patriot act),

Some view this as a necessary weapon to fight modern threats like terrorism. It isn't a cut-and-dry issue like whether killing kittens is good or bad.

weakening environmental regulations, corporate welfare to the oil industry, etc.

There is more than meets the eye for these sorts of actions. Cost-benefit considerations for one.

[Vinland]

NDP will def win some seats in MB (they are prob a lock in my area) and I'm sure SK leans towards the NDP federally. It would be quite a change in landscape with them in the opposition.

[Penneywize]

I'm not 100% sure who I am voting for. I know more about American politics, and if I was American I would vote Liberal. However, isn't Obama just as far right wing as the Conservatives are in Canada?

Yes.

[d0zer]

For what he wants to do with the military, he needs it. Canada's military is a joke right now in terms of what it can do and how up-to-date its technology is. Not to mention the issue of arctic sovereignty:

Battle for the Arctic heats up - Canada - CBC News

What's the long term plan there? Go to war with russia? We'll need a whole lot more money. Our 'peacekeeping' has become a little murky in recent years and I'm not convinced that our military's new role is one that we should take.

Some view this as a necessary weapon to fight modern threats like terrorism. It isn't a cut-and-dry issue like whether killing kittens is good or bad.

I'm aware that some would rather have civil liberties curtailed for some sense of security, just like some would rather spend tons of money on jails to lock more people up for longer, despite falling crime rates. I am not one of those people.

There is more than meets the eye for these sorts of actions. Cost-benefit considerations for one.

Again I'm aware of the arguments for subsidizing big oil, but I just see it as completely unsustainable and believe that money could be put to better use elsewhere. There's more ways to stimulate the economy and create jobs than to just throw it at oil companies.

[StillDeadMoney]

What's the long term plan there? Go to war with russia?

I think the long term plan is just to make sure that other countries don't grab away land that as of right now belongs to Canada. The concern is that people may try to do that because of natural resources that may be or are up there, along with it being easier to sail through the arctic now that it's warmer there.

There's more ways to stimulate the economy and create jobs than to just throw it at oil companies.

Spending money doesn't necessarily stimulate the economy. Yes, if government spending goes up, so does GDP - that's because of the way GDP is defined. But Keynesian-style economics has been discredited for almost 40 years now. Despite this, bureaucrats, armchair economists and policy makers still take some of its tenets as gospel.

[Warpe]

Krugman would disagree.

[eugmac]

Just handed in my ballot at the Canadian Embassy in Berlin.

[Alexos]

Yea it's pretty annoying that NDP and Liberal seem to be cannibalizing each other's votes right now, esp with the gain in popularity of NPD. The only thing I like about the conservatives is keeping taxes low, other than that I'm not sure why I'd vote for them as a Quebecer, his policies obv favours other provinces moar.

[BennyLaRue]

Take this test

The Political Compass

Compare that to this:

[eugmac]

Take this test

The Political Compass

Compare that to this:

Heh interesting when compared to the "test" I took on the CBC website, which basically puts the Liberals far more left and libertarian than in this diagram.

[eugmac]

By the way my results:

[Penneywize]

Seems like some arbitrary bullshit to me

Where does this put the US republicans hm? make a bigger graph?

EDIT wow what the fuck.

"Controlling inflation is more important that controlling unemployment"

"A genuine free market requires restrictions on the ability of predator multinationals to create monopolies."

"The freer the market, the freer the people."

Ever occur to anyone that some of these things can`t just be ranked according to agree/disagree

A long list of idiotic questions imo. This serves nothing.

[Penneywize]

for kicks, this is where I ended up:

[d0zer]

I like how you go on this frothing-at-the-mouth rant about how stupid the test is, but still feel compelled to not only finish it, but to post your results.

[BennyLaRue]

Where does this put the US republicans hm?

From the 2008 election:




Bear in mind this is a test on the Internet. If you run your life based on tests on the Internet, you're an idiot, of course. But if it gets people understanding the basics behind what the parties stand for and where they are on the spectrum relative to things that they believe in, it's not a bad thing.

[Warpe]

Canadian civics 101: http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliame...hemselves7.pdf

[Penneywize]

I like how you go on this frothing-at-the-mouth rant about how stupid the test is, but still feel compelled to not only finish it, but to post your results.

lulz but quizzes are fun!

[a500lbgorilla]

Alright, post your votes in this thread. If you're not Canadian and posting, that's cool. If you are Canadian and not posting, how very Uncanadian of you.

NDP, sick mustache.

[KoRnholio]

Probably NDP.

[JL]

NDP or Liberal... I can be easily convinced one way or the other with a small donation to my PS account.

[Vinland]

My graph. Some Q's are a bit poor in their wording.
I like the graph with all of the 2008 candidates...though I woulld think Ron Paul is to far north, he prob would be more in the libertarian realm...

Heres mine.

[Penneywize]

conservative, shocker.

[Renton]

[JL]

I guess that means you would vote NDP if you were Canadian

[Galapogos]

Liberal

[Renton]

I guess that means you would vote NDP if you were Canadian

do they suck or something?

[JL]

do they suck or something?

No, I was just saying...

[Warpe]

Voted Liberal a week ago. Gonna be weird tonight. Slim Conservative majority if Libs and NDP spilt the vote in Ontario as badly as I think they are going to.

[BennyLaRue]

Voted Liberal a week ago. Gonna be weird tonight. Slim Conservative majority if Libs and NDP spilt the vote in Ontario as badly as I think they are going to.

I think the swing ridings here should be largely protected from this, simply due to the mass exposure of the issue of vote splitting. It's really in our face in the media, much more than in 2008. I'd be surprised if a shift from Libs to NDP in the popular poll really translates into too many more Con seats in Ontario.

In 2008, my riding went Con largely due to the Green candidate, actually. She is intelligent, professional and sociable and got 10% of the vote (I voted Lib), up from something like 3% the previous election. The new Green candidate is a moron and a slob and rather than the Greens actually presenting him as a real candidate, he's simply a warm body so they can say they ran candidates in all ridings and the Greens are instead urging voters to vote strategically against the Cons. Idealogically, I'd think most of these Green voters line up better with the Libs than the Cons so I see it swinging back. Stories like these should offset any gains the Cons make in Ontario but we'll see shortly.

Whatever happens, the best outcome of this election might be a new Liberal leader with both ability and charisma. Whatever happened to grooming ppl, ffs? Can we not find 3 to 5 good, personable leaders whose ideology suits the parties if even an ounce of energy is put into succession planning? I wouldn't even hire a single one of the current party leaders for a basic management position, I kid you not.

[Tomturkey46]

NDP today, the rest,well they suck...............

The turkey

[BankItDrew]

I'm not sure who to vote for tonight. I'll probably just wing it.

[Penneywize]

Election day - gl all, whatever party you're rooting for. Unlike most Canadian federal elections, this one went down to the wire and was pretty damn interesting throughout.

Whatever happens - I really hope the bloc loses seats, or at least popular vote percentage. Under 40% (of Quebec votes ldo) really looks bad for the sovereignty movement. I'm just praying this 'NDP surge' in Quebec isn't just based on media hype. Yeah I may be conservative but Cons>Libs>NDP>Green>BLOC. Hell I would probably vote communist before voting for the bloc.

[d0zer]

as long as we can all be united in our hatred for the bloc...

[BennyLaRue]

Yes, I forgot to answer my poal question from Pg 1. The correct answer is C).

Scary eyes.

[Penneywize]

Yes, I forgot to answer my poal question from Pg 1. The correct answer is C).

Scary eyes.

soulless!

[Alexos]

Election day - gl all, whatever party you're rooting for. Unlike most Canadian federal elections, this one went down to the wire and was pretty damn interesting throughout.

Whatever happens - I really hope the bloc loses seats, or at least popular vote percentage. Under 40% (of Quebec votes ldo) really looks bad for the sovereignty movement. I'm just praying this 'NDP surge' in Quebec isn't just based on media hype. Yeah I may be conservative but Cons>Libs>NDP>Green>BLOC. Hell I would probably vote communist before voting for the bloc.

As a quebecer why do you mind if BLOC has seats? It's not like they have any power to push a separatist movement or anything, so I just view having a weak BLOC is great for Quebec interests, am i wrong?

Especially as a conservative, you'd rather want BLOC to have votes especially since it would mostly come at the expense of NDP votes.

[Alexos]

And I voted Liberal. Tbh most parties suck for me, I wish there was one with moderate social programs, low military spending, low taxes, and that highly values human rights (gay mariage etc). Liberal comes closest but too bad they have no chance.

[BennyLaRue]

And I voted Liberal. Tbh most parties suck for me, I wish there was one with moderate social programs, low military spending, low taxes, and that highly values human rights (gay mariage etc). Liberal comes closest but too bad they have no chance.

There's variation in the details but for the most part, that's the Green Party recipe, sir.

[Alexos]

There's variation in the details but for the most part, that's the Green Party recipe, sir.

wow thanks, I read their platform and a lot of it makes sense. I'm probably voting Green party next time.

edit: unless liberals have a chance for a majority!

[a500lbgorilla]

[Penneywize]

As a quebecer why do you mind if BLOC has seats? It's not like they have any power to push a separatist movement or anything, so I just view having a weak BLOC is great for Quebec interests, am i wrong?

Especially as a conservative, you'd rather want BLOC to have votes especially since it would mostly come at the expense of NDP votes.

towards the middle of the campaign, duceppe came out and said something to the effect of 'the path to sovereignty begins with the election of many bloc quebecois candidates', and hey, it's true.

Say what you will about the bloc being "good" for defending the interest of quebecers, but bear in mind that their raison d'etre is to push the sovereigntist agenda. When it comes down to it - I would wager that what they view as defending the interests of quebecers does not align with the interests of those quebecers who are not sovereigntists.

I value Canadian unity above all else.

And while I might identify myself as a conservative, I mean this from an ideological perspective and not necessarily a strictly political one. That is, to say, I don't blindly agree with whatever the 'Conservative Party of Canada' believes is best for our country; I simply view them as being most in line, given the alternatives, with how I believe our country should be run.

[StillDeadMoney]

Yeah I think I'm gonna go vote...

[jyms]

I'm conservative in my head but it hurts to pull that trigger with the type of conservative party we have in this country.

[Penneywize]

CBC projects a conservative win, bloc down 9 points from 2008 so far...

[Penneywize]

Update: Majority!

And BLOC wiped off the map!

Stephen Harper: Duh, winning!

[JL]

Update: Majority! dislike this

And BLOC wiped off the map! like this

.

[BennyLaRue]

Yeah, I was way wrong. Stupid Orange wave splitting votes.

[Penneywize]

Don't worry JL, due to cons. legislation, there are required votes for majority gov'ts every 4 years

none of this 'hey lets call an election whenever we wants, say after 5 years?' BS the liberals used to pull

well I guess they would just go on to win another majority but w/e

[BennyLaRue]

Ignatieff didn't even win his own riding, ditto Scary Eyes Duceppe. Greens look on pace to finally get a seat.

Big night.

[Vinland]

pretty bad when you cant win your own riding.
I think this is the end of Ignatieff. Who knows with Duceppe. Th eparty basically has one agenda and he couldnt win the seat of th eprovince he wishes to serve....

[BennyLaRue]

Duceppe already quit.

Bob Rae will be quick to force Iggy out, I'd think, but he'd be a bad choice as well...they'd have a hard time regaining Ontario with Rae in there.

[Penneywize]

I've got to say I like Layton's speech

yeah he's a lefty, but he has charisma in spades doesn't he?

If harper were 1/5th as likeable as Layton he would have won a majority years ago.

[Galapogos]

I've got to say I like Layton's speech

yeah he's a lefty, but he has charisma in spades doesn't he?

If harper were 1/5th as likeable as Layton he would have won a majority years ago.

I actually can't stand Layton for some reason. He just comes across as such a weasel.

[Warpe]

I actually can't stand Layton for some reason. He just comes across as such a weasel.

Fuck me. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. This was the shittiest of shitty results.

[Warpe]

I actually can't stand Layton for some reason. He just comes across as such a weasel.

Fuck me. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. This was the shittiest of shitty results.

[Galapogos]

Fuck me. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. This was the shittiest of shitty results.

Not too sure why you quoted me for this? I didn't mean I couldn't stand Layton so I voted Harper. Despite my dislike for Layton I would still vote for his party before Harpers.

[Ravageur]

Watched the election as well last night. I voted NDP since liberals are dead in my riding, but it'd be really nice to see the liberals find a decent leader. What's the deal with Justin Trudeau? Seems like he has good looks/charisma + the benefit of a legacy, but is he an idiot or something?

4 more years of Harper is depressing, but at least that should give the liberals time to get their act together.

[fulksy]

voted conservative

[Penneywize]

Watched the election as well last night. I voted NDP since liberals are dead in my riding, but it'd be really nice to see the liberals find a decent leader. What's the deal with Justin Trudeau? Seems like he has good looks/charisma + the benefit of a legacy, but is he an idiot or something?

4 more years of Harper is depressing, but at least that should give the liberals time to get their act together.

Yeah I had a poli sci class back in 2009 that Justin Trudeau was invited to give a speech to.

In the Q&A period someone asked him about his stance on afghanistan, and he went from having a jovial/enthusiastic/hip tone to one that was intense and forceful when speaking of his support for the Canadian mission. While I commend him for what he was saying - I don't disagree with him - I really felt his thoughts were premeditated / scripted, and his whole passionate reaction came across to me as a bad case of hollywood.

Since that day I have not wavered in my assertion that he is a douche bag.

[Penneywize]

LOLOL

[Vinland]

^ Good riddance
na na na na, na na na na, heyyyehhey, au revoir...

[Warpe]

Not too sure why you quoted me for this? I didn't mean I couldn't stand Layton so I voted Harper. Despite my dislike for Layton I would still vote for his party before Harpers.

I was agreeing with your "weasel" comment about Layton, that's all. Most people don't see it.

[Warpe]

What's the deal with Justin Trudeau? Seems like he has good looks/charisma + the benefit of a legacy, but is he an idiot or something?

Young, that's all. He needs more time.

[StillDeadMoney]

Admiration for Justin Trudeau is the same as admiration for the Royal Family: he was born into privilege, wealth and fame, fawned upon by the media for no reason other than exiting the correct woman's vagina at birth.

I feel really bad for Ignatieff. He had the pedigree (of someone that earned his way to the top), and he definitely had a head on his shoulders. I'm not sure why Liberal support fell so sharply... and am even more puzzled as to why Quebec swung so hard towards the NDP.

Mind you, the NDP should not rest on their laurels. Quebec, where most of the NDP seats came from in this election, did this before: it made a provincial 3rd party that always stuck at around 15% percent support (remind you of anyone?) into the official opposition. The very next election, support for the 3rd party evaporated back to its standard 15% support.

[BennyLaRue]

I feel really bad for Ignatieff. He had the pedigree (of someone that earned his way to the top), and he definitely had a head on his shoulders.

The problem was exactly this, that his head was too big for his shoulders.

LOOK AT IT! It's like Sputnik. He'll be crying himself to sleep on his huge pillow tonight.