Congratulations to the Werewolves of the HMAS Drink Your Ass Off

[wufwugy]

Well, the favoring of the wolves was just an argument I made that I probably shouldn't because I think it ultimately doesn't matter. The point is entirely based on wanting more involvement because there are so many players who just don't pay attention if they're not specials and this causes a lot of irritating problems IMO, and easing the issue of the same people dying early and not being able to contribute/play

I would love to see something that would keep the wolves from default killing the same players on their first two kills. Every game I've played, JV and Gator are the first two to die if they're not wolves or the angel. That shit is retarded. The necro would give the opportunity to raise one, and the polter would either give another the opportunity for a timely return or simply provoke the wolves to kill somebody other than the same top targets

[StillDeadMoney]

I don't necessarily think it's an issue of good players dying early in games, but players dying early in games period. It really sucks when you get killed or hung on days/nights 1 or 2. You basically got to play for a grand total of between 2 and 4 RL days and now you have to wait 1 or 2 months before you can play again. That's just... lame. Something like wuf's ideas would help with this.

I have one major complaint: the days are getting really fucking long, ridiculously long in fact. I think something really needs to be done about this, because I think that people wouldn't be getting burned out of WW if it didn't take a month and a half to play the game. This latest game started on Feb 2nd, 9:22PM and ended March 13th, 2011 9:21PM: a total of about 39 days, that's about 96 hours per day/night cycle; almost 6 weeks. Not only is this a burden on the players, but modding is now such a lengthy commitment. Some players have argued that long days help the village but the wolves seem to be winning just as much as before.

Nonetheless, players seem to like the new format of longer days, so the only other way to speed up the game is with a different format.

I really liked the format from a few games ago: 2 teams of wolves, and a vig that got to shoot every night (or something equivalent, like dead villagers getting to haunt someone the night they die). That means 3 or 4 players would die every day/night cycle in the early going, and in the late going when there was only 1 team of wolves left the game would naturally slow down (since villagers would die at a slower rate). Though I would double the number of wolves from 20% to 40%, (because the wolves can kill each other) and change the winning conditions to require that the winning wolf team must make up 50% of the total population (and not just villager team population), because the smaller wolf team can always make a comeback by eating enemy wolves and coercing villagers to vote against the other team's wolves. Not only was this two wolf team game really exciting, it was fast-paced and people really had to pay attention. We even saw interesting scenarios where one team of wolves openly colluded with the other team. Anyway, I definitely would love to give a game like this a try.

[wufwugy]

SDM makes some great points. I honestly have no clue how long the days should last or how things should be paced, but it might be something to look at.

[Roid_Rage]

I feel like 96 hours/day is abso ridiculous, at least at the start of the game. Once it gets down to 10 or fewer people you can probably make it longer, but I'd make the opening days like 24-48 hours max and then the remaining days like 48-60 hours long.

[Ragnar4]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a 48 hour a day hard-cap, with a corresponding "day off on sunday" sort of mentality.

I also think that this lack of commitment from non-wolves has GOT to stop. I think, one of the ways to control it, is by allowing fewer players. 9 total Villagers/ 2 wolves / 1 seer is standard for live play games. Most recommend that 14 total players is max limit for any venue. 14/3/1 Perhaps by having simultaneous games running with one mod and fewer players it will create more tension and keep players interested longer?

[wufwugy]

I'd rather not see a player limit cap. I'd much prefer very aggressive modkilling than that

You don't wanna hurt the prospect of big epic dynamic games

[rong]

Lots of good points. I hate the idea if a player cap or simultaneously running games. The big games, when good, are great. I think the main issue is villager participation, nit sure how to fix it. I like wufs idea of ghosts/resurrections. And the short early days and longer late days makes sense.

[Hoopy]

I like the idea of having short initial days then gradually increasing them as time goes on.

Maybe 24 hours for day 1, 36 for 2/3, 48 for 4/5/6 and then 60 hours per day until the end.

[Keith]

not really a fan of having short early days , current early days seem to work well. Endgame seemed to really drag for the last game where people virtually refused to post. It all comes back to commitment. If you can't be arsed to commit the time don't sign up. Look at the last game , so many of the village kills were taken up with killing the inactives who didn't get a role so couldn't be bothered. They just screw up the village. Theres nothing wrong with the Mod kickstarting the action by setting a 24 hour limit in the game if the debate is stalling.

Don't really buy the burnout argument either. I've taken part in most of the endgames in the really long games (Gator too) and couple of weeks between games and I'm ready for the next one.Games I've gone out early , I've still read and speculated as i'm sure most people do.Just saves the time having to write and post your thoughts.

[Roid_Rage]

Yea I didn't mention this in my previous post, but I'm game for the Necro/Poltergeist ideas wuf presented to help with participation.

[StillDeadMoney]

I think I have an idea to shorten the days that everyone would like. How about letting everyone talk at all times rather than shutting down conversation until the wolves can decide which person to eat.

Players would immediately be able to react to the lynch result and talk about what the village should do next. The only restriction should be that voting is forbidden until the wolves have killed a target. Wolves should be given a 24 hour restriction as to choosing a target, though. In order to discourage the wolves delaying their kill target by trying to decipher what the villagers are saying, they should be under the restriction that if they fail to choose a target in time, a villager (without a special role) should be randomly killed, and the mod should note this in the kill message. In the case where the village has no living specials, the wolves would forfeit their kill. This restriction ensures that the wolves would be playing suboptimally if they let the villager kills be random because while a random kill gives no information to the village, the wolves would not be able to kill a special (which is critical to their success); and in the late game scenario, they are forced to give information away by choosing a kill target rather than it occuring randomly.

This change would at best effectively shorten the days by the amount of time it typically takes wolves to make a decision as to whom to kill.

edit: grammar

[Keith]

I think I have an idea to shorten the days that everyone would like. How about letting everyone talk at all times rather than shutting down conversation until the wolves can decide which person to eat.
Players would immediately be able to react to the lynch result and talk about what the village should do next. The only restriction should be that voting is forbidden until the wolves have killed a target.

An absolutely terrible idea , letthe wolves see the way the following days voting/village strategy could go and then tailor there eats to their greatest advantage. Its not surprising you came up with this as you can't shut up in the dead thread during night time.Its a sure fire way to ensure the wolves take as long as possible to make there minds up .

Here's an idea that might help you get better as a player. During night time read back through the thread and try and work stuff out ,try and find links between players etc.You could also try and think through the implications of what you say /do before you say/do them.

Wolves should be given a 24 hour restriction as to choosing a target, though.

no problem with that

In order to discourage the wolves delaying their kill target by trying to decipher what the villagers are saying, they should be under the restriction that if they fail to choose a target in time, a villager (without a special role) should be randomly killed, and the mod should note this in the kill message. In the case where the village has no living specials, the wolves would forfeit their kill.

If they don't get a kill in by the deadline, tough shit , they lose the kill.

This restriction ensures that the wolves would be playing suboptimally if they let the villager kills be random because while a random kill gives no information to the village, the wolves would not be able to kill a special (which is critical to their success); and in the late game scenario, they are forced to give information away by choosing a kill target rather than it occuring randomly.

This change would at best effectively shorten the days by the amount of time it typically takes wolves to make a decision as to whom to kill.

edit: grammar

So using your system an active player pushing the case against wolves could be randomly killed and the kill message would say that it was a random kill not a wolf kill and leave a bunch of inactives to barely post. Therefore the village doesn't get the message that the wolves could be scared of what he was saying or targetting , just that the wolves couldn't be bothered to put a vote in by the deadline. Way to go sherlock.

in fact, why don't we take your plan a stage further and have the mod do all the kills at random and post whether the wolves or the village won the game and save us all a lot of time.Takes all the fun and skill out of the game but I don't siuppose it matters to you as you lack the skill to start with.

[rong]

lol

[OngBonga]

I reckon we should just stop bitching and get on with another game for fuck's sake.

[wufwugy]

One of these games I hope the mod secretly picks SDM and Keith as two of the wolves

In fact I wanna see a wolf team of SDM Keith philly Carroters and me. Just so I can watch a meltdown

[StillDeadMoney]

An absolutely terrible idea , letthe wolves see the way the following days voting/village strategy could go and then tailor there eats to their greatest advantage.

I did consider this, hence the penalties and time limit. No voting at night means the wolves won't know for sure where the village's vote is going to head. Moreover, the villagers know they are being watched - only a level 0 villager would be disadvantaged by this rule change.

Its not surprising you came up with this as you can't shut up in the dead thread during night time.

How many posts do I have in the dead thread this game before I died?

Its a sure fire way to ensure the wolves take as long as possible to make there minds up.

And they risk getting penalized for doing so, which was the point.

If they don't get a kill in by the deadline, tough shit , they lose the kill.

I would be fine with this.

So using your system an active player pushing the case against wolves could be randomly killed and the kill message would say that it was a random kill not a wolf kill and leave a bunch of inactives to barely post. Therefore the village doesn't get the message that the wolves could be scared of what he was saying or targetting , just that the wolves couldn't be bothered to put a vote in by the deadline. Way to go sherlock.

I'm not sure what your point is here. The wolves are penalized in not knowing the kill target, not being able to take out a special, and the whole village knowing that the kill was random (so there is no possibility that the village can level itself over the reasons why the target was chosen). Yes, an active player could be killed, but that's just a consequence of the kill being random. If player by and large prefer a system where the wolves forfeit their kill through inaction, I would be agreeable to that as well.

in fact, why don't we take your plan a stage further and have the mod do all the kills at random and post whether the wolves or the village won the game and save us all a lot of time.Takes all the fun and skill out of the game but I don't siuppose it matters to you as you lack the skill to start with.

Non sequitur from my proposition.

[Penneywize]

wow keith being gay about SDM at the end of another game, what a shocker

[Roid_Rage]

Keith is extremely butt-hurt that the village lost despite him playing so extraordinarily awesome and singlehandedly finding 2 wolves.

[Keith]

wow keith being gay about SDM at the end of another game, what a shocker

penney coming in and blindly supporting SDM regardless of how stupid his argument is, what a shocker. How about a way of speeding up games would be if players aren't stupid enough to post from the same computer causing the game to be suspended.

Keith is extremely butt-hurt that the village lost despite him playing so extraordinarily awesome and singlehandedly finding 2 wolves.

lol , Gator won by playing a great game as a wolf , who's the one so butt hurt that he couldn't stay out of the game thread after he was dead and got a temporary ban for it and has now come in and posted the same rubbish for the second time?.

An absolutely terrible idea , letthe wolves see the way the following days voting/village strategy could go and then tailor there eats to their greatest advantage.

I did consider this, hence the penalties and time limit. No voting at night means the wolves won't know for sure where the village's vote is going to head. Moreover, the villagers know they are being watched - only a level 0 villager would be disadvantaged by this rule change.

You won't get any meaningful discussion after the day ends, if you can't vote you can't put pressure on people and they therefore don't have defence posts to make. You are also acting in the absense of the information that will come for the following days voting which will be based around who died , any lookup reveals,angel blocks etc.There is no gain to the village so why bother.?

The penalties are irrelevant as the wolves will make sure they get a kill in. They will have there targets of special role suspects,good players and later in the game confirmed villagers.

You are also ignoring the fact that the Mod gets a bit of a break from having to watch the thread when its the night time phase.

And they risk getting penalized for doing so, which was the point.

The wolves will never let themselves be penalised by missing a kill , its in their interests to get rid of villagers , A time limit is just as effective at getting the wolves to make a decision as it is for getting the villagers to decide.

. The wolves are penalized in not knowing the kill target, not being able to take out a special, and the whole village knowing that the kill was random (so there is no possibility that the village can level itself over the reasons why the target was chosen). Yes, an active player could be killed, but that's just a consequence of the kill being random. If player by and large prefer a system where the wolves forfeit their kill through inaction, I would be agreeable to that as well.

There is no penalty to the wolves from continuing to talk at night because someone who could still be suspicious during the night time may be irrelevent by the following day( shot, eaten or outed themselves)

[Carroters]

Yeah it was gross. By the time Wuf announced he'd looked me up Keith already had the village convinced I was...Wuf was pretty much redundant imo.

[Roid_Rage]

AM SO SRZ RIGHT NOW GUYS



^^^SUPER SERIOUS FACE (only for WW)^^^^

[OngBonga]

Lynch Keith

I'll shoot SDM tonight.

[StillDeadMoney]

Seeing as everyone (else) doesn't give a shit about this discussion anymore, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

YouTube - FAMILY GUY - Bird is the Word!

[bigred]

I'd like to mod the next game if possible. Otherwise I think I will either sit out or only participate via lolcats. I'm burnt out on ww

[StillDeadMoney]

only participate via lolcats.

This, I'd want to see.

[bigred]

This, I'd want to see.

[StillDeadMoney]

[bigred]

[wufwugy]

scottish folds are the coolest kind of domestic cat

[bigred]

scottish folds are the coolest kind of domestic cat

[OngBonga]

Lolcats should be stamped on.

[StillDeadMoney]

Lolcats should be stamped on.

[OngBonga]

Lol.

[Roid_Rage]

Awww...!! A barrel of sleeping cats, how cute!

[a500lbgorilla]

I'd like to mod the next game if possible. Otherwise I think I will either sit out or only participate via lolcats. I'm burnt out on ww

I'd really like to play a game as I was killed first two games ago and existed outside of the space and time of the last one but I'm a little burned out too from modding and I don't think we should fire up another game for at least a handful of weeks.

[a500lbgorilla]

scottish folds are the coolest kind of domestic cat

A quick selection from google image returned results for "best cat type" demonstrates that you are incorrect.

Also, everyone knows that the best kind of domestic cat is a dog.

[OngBonga]

Also, everyone knows that the best kind of domestic cat is a dog.

This man speaks the TRUTH

[wufwugy]

Also, everyone knows that the best kind of domestic cat is a dog.

[a500lbgorilla]

If it's the size of a cat, it's not a dog.

A dog.

An adorable abomination.

[wufwugy]

Big ass lynx says nigga please

[a500lbgorilla]

Domesticated Bear finds this conversation very fascinating but can't fathom a Carnivora Feliformia that could possibly compete with the king of Carnivora Caniformia

[wufwugy]

Tiger not impress



Domesticated Bear too busy whining about how fat he is, how he can't kill elephant or crocodile

[a500lbgorilla]

A wild Stephen Fry clears up the issue in favor of the bear.

QI - Series F - Fight Or Flight - British Comedy Guide

- When lions fight bears, the bear always wins. During the Gold Rush, entertainment was put on for the benefit of prospectors, and this came in the form of bears fighting other animals. The bear always won against the local wildlife, so lions were shipped in from Africa to fight them. However, because the skull of a lion is weak, a bear can kill it in a single blow before the lion has a chance to attack. (Forfeit: Lions)

I doubt the foolish tiger would fair any better than the brave lion.

[wufwugy]

Lions are pussies. They're like half dog. Gotta hunt in packs and shit and have inferior motor skills. Takes like twenty of them to kill an elephant, only like two tigers get that job done. Girl tigers turn the biggest baddest boy lion into a blubbering vagina

Lion can't even catch Ostrich. Tiger does that with paw behind back

[a500lbgorilla]

Lions fuck tigers. That's a fact.

[philly and the phanatics]

hahahhah yes this page is so much win

[StillDeadMoney]

BBC NEWS | World | Lion Mutilates 42 Midgets in Cambodian Ring-Fight

[OngBonga]

My friend's dog can kill moths. Can a tiger?

[Roid_Rage]

My dad used to have a half Coyote, half Australian Shepherd mix that would eat bees lol.

[wufwugy]

BBC NEWS | World | Lion Mutilates 42 Midgets in Cambodian Ring-Fight

How incredibly sad

And how is that not Onion?

[StillDeadMoney]

How incredibly sad

And how is that not Onion?

It is a fake... I was hoping to start a "how many midgets would it take to kill a lion" discussion.

[wufwugy]

Oh shit I didn't read the top. I have an eye for these things, but I didn't feel like questioning the authenticity of a BBC claim

[OngBonga]

I knew it wasn't a real BBC article due largely to the fact there were no spelling or grammar errors.

[bigred]

My dad used to have a half Coyote, half Australian Shepherd mix that would eat bees lol.

Wasn't there a simpsons quote by homer about dogs spitting bees or something.

[bigred]

nm, found it

Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?

[Donachello]

Bee dog says pew pew

[bigred]

o m g that is cute

[bigred]

omg, its so fucking cute

[Roid_Rage]

omg you're so fucking cute :3

[Roid_Rage]

Yup, still won 2 games in a row, just checking.

[bigred]

[ ] I care

[Roid_Rage]

Check boxes are so 2010

[bigred]

Your mom is so 2010

[StillDeadMoney]

Start up a new one!

[Roid_Rage]

Thank God, she was getting pretty worn out.

[bigred]

Who wants a new one? I can mod. Not sure if interest is ready yet.

[OngBonga]

[x] wants a new one
[x] thinks roid should be a wolf yet again and get lynched first day
[x] thinks checkboxes are still in fashion

[philly and the phanatics]

[ ] disagrees with onga bonga

[Roid_Rage]

First day lynch is awesome.

[a500lbgorilla]

If a game starts up, I'll play.

[wufwugy]

I'm always down for a new one, depends on when you guys think is best

[Hoopy]

New one sounds good.

[rong]

I think I'm addicted!

[rong]

With my new avatar I should so be the vig

[StillDeadMoney]

What's the over/under for how many days rilla survives? 2?