Finnish poliisi hit like girls

[wufwugy]

The situation is one of going too far vs not going far enough. In US, we see the consequences of the mentality that allows law enforcement to go too far on a regular, pathological basis

I think the Finnish response to this was excellent because it demonstrates control and reason in an attempt to not abuse and go too far. The trade off for this approach is that you get things like the guy able to arm himself with the broom, but really that's a very small mistake compared to the massive abuses of US law enforcement due to the zero tolerance attitude

Not to mention that a gung ho US approach in these kinds of situations actually causes even more collateral damage. In Finland, it looks like the poliisi let a little bit of push come before a shove, in US we let the threat of a push turn into a beating. There are other important factors too like the knowledge that in Finland, the perp is very unlikely to have a gun, but in US that's not the case. I do find irony in people complaining about gun violence and police brutality. Bitches need to realize the inherent contradiction

[kfaess]

wuf, I agree with you that things like this are a balancing act and its easy to sway too far to either side sometimes.

However,

control and reason in an attempt to not abuse and go too far.

This is the part I disagree with. As far as I'm concerned this guy lost most of his rights the instant he starts fighting with the police. Obviously you can't just shoot the guy in the head for taking a swing at an officer, but I'd rather err on the side of slightly too much force than not enough. What if the guy decided to go after the civilian with the broom and broke his nose?

It would be interesting if we knew statistics like accusations of police brutality vs convictions of police brutality. Lots of people are just fucking idiots and get themselves into shitty situations and then claim "POLICE BRUTALITY!" when they're being put in handcuffs and stuffed into a police car. You see this on COPS all the time.

If you follow the instructions of the officers then you're going to have no issues, its pretty much that simple. Let's use an example from To Catch a Predator. After they're caught, lots of these guys jog out of the house where they meet a group of police officers. The police yell "get on the ground" every fucking time. Yet some of these guys are so upset that they're caught and going to jail that they do something like just stand there and put their face in their hands. And then they get the shit tackled out of them by the police. Do I feel bad? No, because 1. they're scumbags who broke the law, but 2. they didn't listen to what the police were saying.

Imo, in most cases where police have to use force they're completely justified in what they do.

[wufwugy]

This is the part I disagree with. As far as I'm concerned this guy lost most of his rights the instant he starts fighting with the police. Obviously you can't just shoot the guy in the head for taking a swing at an officer, but I'd rather err on the side of slightly too much force than not enough. What if the guy decided to go after the civilian with the broom and broke his nose?

Looks like they were waiting for backup

In a way this could be considered a problem of law enforcement not being properly trained in combat. I think it was kinda clear they didn't attack him at first because they thought it could create more problems simply by merit of them not being able to handle him without more bodies

I'm not sure how much I agree with the justification of force in US cops. Yes, most of the time it is probably justified, but man some of the time it is really, really bad. I think the solution comes more out of nurturing a society in which there isn't need for excessive force, which is some of what I was alluding to about civilian firearms. Like I said, in US there is a serious threat to cops that perps can be armed and deadly, but not so much in places like Finland

[kfaess]

Looks like they were waiting for backup

In a way this could be considered a problem of law enforcement not being properly trained in combat. I think it was kinda clear they didn't attack him at first because they thought it could create more problems simply by merit of them not being able to handle him without more bodies

I'm not sure how much I agree with the justification of force in US cops. Yes, most of the time it is probably justified, but man some of the time it is really, really bad. I think the solution comes more out of nurturing a society in which there isn't need for excessive force, which is some of what I was alluding to about civilian firearms. Like I said, in US there is a serious threat to cops that perps can be armed and deadly, but not so much in places like Finland

Yea its a really good point about gun regulations (although I'm still in favor of our right to bear arms), however every single place in the world you're going to have bad apples that break the law no matter if they have guns or not

Also:
YouTube - Good Police Work

[Ash256]

Let's use an example from To Catch a Predator. After they're caught, lots of these guys jog out of the house where they meet a group of police officers. The police yell "get on the ground" every fucking time. Yet some of these guys are so upset that they're caught and going to jail that they do something like just stand there and put their face in their hands. And then they get the shit tackled out of them by the police.

I don't think is is a particularly valid example because of the likelihood of the cops playing up to the cameras