Ragnar4 OP: There's a moral in here somerwhere.

[Ragnar4]

thanks c-bee. It's nice to see other people share my same affliciton for this goofy game.

[Ragnar4]

Turns out I'm just like Slevin. Except without everyone here wanting me to fail.

$6.00 left after having my BR at 250 at one point and I have no will to even try any more.

GG poker, well played, you win my soul.

[JKDS]

[Ragnar4]

Watching the 2k9 WSOP and all I can think is that I seriously fucked up somewhere.

Trying to be good at poker is the hardest thing I've ever done. I've put more work into it, and read more books than I've ever read on a single subject.

I can't even define my problems. Every hand I post that I have a question on, someone is all like "standard" Every time I go to the best around here for help, they read my shit and don't reply.

I've spent the last 2 months on ranges and I still don't get it. The intro math is so easy, but the math after that gets retarded hard and I can't seem to bridge the gap.

At this point I don't know if I ever even want to try to make another run at this shit, what I do know is that everyone that told me that Poker was nothing more than gambling will be right if I give up, and that's what pisses me off most. I see how it's not, I get it, but apparently I don't get it enough.

[donkbee]

I read this a couple times and typed out responses a few times and then deleted it all. I dunno what to say ... All I know is that it really is hard to be good at poker ... and I guess don't forget that at one point in time poker was fun and it was a game. It's probably time to stop playing until it's fun again.

[Keith]

have you done any sweat sessions yet? Also are you out thinking yourself trying to apply morre advanced concepts like SPR etc to situations where you don't need it. Just bet your good hands , play in position, steal from nits, Value bet,don't bluff,small hand small pot big hand big pot,fold to reraises on flush boards etc. Thats all you need to get through 2 and 5nl. Its all I used. And its done me ok at 10NL too. Its when I try getting fancy and playing too many tables that I get my ass kicked.

[Ragnar4]

1 year, 5 months later. I'm playing again. I've started to have fun a gain. =D

[donkbee]

yay!

[griffey24]

1 year, 5 months later. I'm playing again. I've started to have fun a gain. =D

welcome back and good luck man!

At some point things just click.. and it'll happen. Or hopefully its fun again cause its already clicking

[Ragnar4]

[Ragnar4]

Well the Graphs look good, the stats seem to suggest I'm playing too many hands. But I'm having fun, and winning, and thinking about things I've never thought about before. I think the things that tilted me so much last time I played, and after re-reading my stuff, I can see that I'm saying some pretty laughable things "ZOMG 500 hands and I'm down a buy in". which I was constantly reminded can be 100% standard. No point in getting frustrated about that if it's standard.

I've also realized that I've never really committed myself to ranges. One of the ways that I got really good at Magic and Warhammer and eventually Debate was I used to run an "order of operations" in my mind. At the beginning of every magic phase I would say (in my mind of course) "Untap, upkeep, draw, land, cast, combat, cast, end" as I was entering those phases. In Warhammer at the beginning of each phase I had a series of questions I would ask myself. In Debate I always asked myself the same 5 questions about every argument before I made it.

I think I want to install the same thought process to my hand.

"What's my hand"
"What's my opponents range"
"What does my opponent think I have"
"What's the thing I want to do"
"Are my other 2 options better"

THEN and only then do I make the action I'm thinking.

[Ragnar4]

1k hands tonight. Up 10.52 I had one amazingly shitty calloff of top pair top kicker against someone I KNEW I shouldn't be calling. I lost 250 bbs in the calloff. I thought he was steaming because I has just snapped his AA off. Instead he had just re-bought had TT the next hand and flopped a set on an AT2 board. he let me valuetown him until he shoved over on the river.

deerrp call.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($5.02)
SB ($3.05)
BB ($2)
UTG ($0.99)
UTG+1 ($2.09)
MP1 ($5.11)
Hero (MP2) ($2.70)
MP3 ($1.64)
CO ($2.41)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, A
3 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.26) 3, J, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.16, CO raises to $0.42, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.58 | Rake: $0.02

This hand really sucked because my opponent was 0/0 over like 40 hands.

[donkbee]

0/0 over 40 hands?! jeez

[HarleyGuy13]

Ragnar4 good to see you're back. I hope you do enjoy the game more this time around. Relax and just play good poker and don't force it for sure.

[Ragnar4]

Thanks Harley!

I'm playing like shit apparently (the hand i posted in the BC was shredded mercilessly) But I am winning (LOL Variance) and I've already drawn the ire of a better player than me by disagreeing with him (Daven) So it's all about right in my world.

I feel like I'm learning things, and my winrate really takes off when I am thinking about ranges, and assigning them, but about 2 hours in, I get lazy and play this really high variance game of chicken for the most part and stop trying to assign ranges, and just auto-pilot. It's really been *the* limiting factor in my game for a long time.

This time around if I can't fix it, I shelve poker as anything more than "something I do for fun on occasion".

[HarleyGuy13]

I feel like I'm learning things, and my winrate really takes off when I am thinking about ranges, and assigning them, but about 2 hours in, I get lazy and play this really high variance game of chicken for the most part and stop trying to assign ranges, and just auto-pilot. It's really been *the* limiting factor in my game for a long time.

This time around if I can't fix it, I shelve poker as anything more than "something I do for fun on occasion".

Easy fix my friend just play short sessions. Only makes since to do what is best for your game. I remember reading a post spoon did a long time ago that talked about building your tolerance for playing longer sessions. He basically suggest playing to your comfort level and slowly adding short periods of time to them. Only add additional time when you can honestly say your comfortable the entire time you're currently playing.

This would be a good excercise in discipline as well. Making yourself recogonize when the game is slipping and auto-pilot is taking over. All adds up to EV!

[Ragnar4]

*sigh*

500 hands in, and down .50 cents
The problem?
88>KK
A4>AA
Gutter ball straight draw > a set of 7's
AT>KK

All of which I got the money in way ahead.

Too bad p-stars disagreed.

Bad week so far... bad bad week

[Ragnar4]

Also posted in the BC

--Both villains were total fish. Just couldn't imagine that I was ever good even with the idiots that were playing

80/40 over 10, and like 42/5 over 100.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($1)
UTG+1 ($4.91)
Hero (MP1) ($3.83)
MP2 ($1.74)
CO ($1.61)
Button ($2.42)
SB ($5)
BB ($1.53)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, K
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.10, 4 folds, BB calls $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.31) 8, A, 6 (3 players)
BB bets $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08, Hero raises to $0.34, BB calls $0.26, UTG+1 calls $0.26

Turn: ($1.33) 9 (3 players)
BB bets $0.76, UTG+1 calls $0.76, Hero folds

River: ($2.85) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $0.26, UTG+1 calls $0.26

Total pot: $3.37 | Rake: $0.16

Hand 2

--villain had played like 40 hands and was 28/0 The short bet on the flop had me thinking AK/AQ/AJ

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($0.81)
Button ($2)
SB ($1)
Hero (BB) ($2)
UTG ($3)
MP1 ($1.20)
MP2 ($1.18)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7, 7
2 folds, MP2 bets $0.10, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.31) 4, 4, 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.16, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.16

Turn: ($0.63) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.92 (All-In), Hero calls $0.92

River: ($2.47) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $2.47 | Rake: $0.12


--Villain is like 15/10, and has been throwing a lot of "fuck you" shoves down my throat, He had stacked me earlier with a set, playing a lot like this, but there's no way he had a set every time we got into it. I kinda wondered if he was shoving with some sort of sick diamond/JT draw.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($1.93)
MP2 ($5.08)
CO ($2.47)
Button ($0.90)
SB ($2.56)
Hero (BB) ($2.53)
UTG ($5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6, 6
4 folds, Button calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero bets $0.06, Button calls $0.04, SB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.18) Q, 2, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($0.18) 6 (3 players)
SB bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, SB raises to $2.50 (All-In), Hero calls $2.27 (All-In)

River: ($5.12) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.12 | Rake: $0.25

--Villain is pure feesh tastic. like 41/8. But I've been stacked a lot in this situation where it's like Set over my overpair. Did I spew?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($3.82)
SB ($5.37)
BB ($3.78)
UTG ($0.71)
UTG+1 ($1.27)
MP1 ($2.40)
MP2 ($0.93)
MP3 ($1)
CO ($2.94)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, CO calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.08, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.06, CO calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.27) 5, K, 6 (3 players)
MP1 bets $0.26, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.26

Turn: ($0.79) 2 (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.76, Hero raises to $3.48 (All-In), MP1 calls $1.30 (All-In)

River: ($4.91) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.91 | Rake: $0.24

[Ragnar4]

I'm beginning to put together a little theory: It goes something like this

If I were to take my 50 biggest hands (winners) and post them in BC. I'll bet that 40 of which, I would be pointed to some part of the hand where the hand would be declared "atrocious."

This is not a villification against the quality of the BC, but rather a villification against the quality of my play.

[PlayToWin]

I'm beginning to put together a little theory: It goes something like this

If I were to take my 50 biggest hands (winners) and post them in BC. I'll bet that 40 of which, I would be pointed to some part of the hand where the hand would be declared "atrocious."

This is not a villification against the quality of the BC, but rather a villification against the quality of my play.

I'd say it's difficult to get correct advice about playing 2NL. It's weird at that level. There's a lot of bluff shoving and made-hand shoving. You just have to go with your reads, if you have any. And it's probably best to fold to shoves if all you have is a bluff catcher. Your also gonna hate seeing the garbage that villians showdown with after you've folded a good hand to their aggression.

[Ragnar4]

Holy shit I suck at poker.

Down like 10 buy ins over the last week. I think I put way too much stock into the thread in the BC about being aggressive with draws. I think I'm losing a lot of equity I used to get by playing passivley