Random Reliability

[LuckySlevin]

Hi everyone, I was reading a post on the 'betfair' forum today and someone asked : -

" KK -v- AQo which hand is favourite please "

someone replied...

" aq is fav on betfair, dog on most other sites "

Which made me wonder if there is a lot of variance in the 'randomness' of the cards between the different poker sites.

Q.1. ) Are they all much the same, or do some have tendencies to generate certain types of hands?

As I'm just starting off this I think is a very important question, is there one site that sticks out as being the most random? That would be the best one to play I'd guess?

Q.2) What does the small o indicate in the hand posted above?

Thanks everyone

[bjsaust]

Lol, they're all random and they're all audited to confirm they are. Its just people are convinced whatever site they're currently playing on, the dogs always win.

AQo = Ace Queen off suit.
AQs = Ace Queen suited.

[LuckySlevin]

bjaust thanks for your reply that's really great, my faith is reestablished.

I've just had that feeling like I've met someone famous...

I was watching your 2 table video for the SNG yesterday from the beginner video, great video it really helped me thanks

I tried your tactic in a multi table free tournament but it didn't work for me as I got impatient, I was down to about 1100 from a 1500 initial chip role because all I was doing was folding, then when I got A8 I went in and got involved, in a couple of raised ending in me losing half my chips.

I guess the whole point in your video is to wait until you have a very strong hand or it doesn't work!

By the way, that tactic would you say it works in very large volume of player free rolls as well, or should I change tact?

Also at the end in the showdown I see you going all in with Jack and a 9 or something like that, I was thinking wow I would be too scarred to do that! what if he has a better card and wins? could you explain a bit more about this please. thanks.

- once again, thanks you have a great style and it was really enjoyable watching your video!

[Robb]

Lol, they're all random and they're all audited to confirm they are.

When online poker was first launched, there were some problems with the randomization of a couple early sites. They were 99.99999% random, but not quite 100%. It's a mathematics technicality and was not exploitable by the players. But mathematicians and computer scientists have worked for years perfecting randomization procedures, and the problem was quickly solved.

The last thing an online casino needs is a lack of randomness. It would chase away business. They only make money if the population of gamblers thinks their software is unbiased and secure.

Security issues have plagued Absolute and UltimateBet, but they stem from company insiders setting up "superuser" accounts that can see everyone's hole cards. If you keep your eyes open on these types of forums, you'll quickly learn which sites are reputable, both with regard to randomness and security. How they handle the monies in your accounts (withdrawals, etc) is also an issue, and some sites are better than others. FTR has a fairly extensive review of each of the major poker sites. See the blue tab at the top of this page (3rd one from left).

Poker rooms are "buyer beware," and smart gamblers will only frequent sites with a solid record of fairness, security, account integrity and customer support. The same is true for rakeback sites and other gambling related sites.

Bottom line: the cards are dealt in a mathematically random way in online poker, a fact which is NOT typically true in live games where the deck is often not reshuffled sufficiently for true randomness.

[Stacks]

Robb and BJ are spot on as usual. And the reason that statement was made on BetFair goes back to the selective memory thing. I'm almost sure the guy who made the statement was probably recalling a time when his KK lost to AQ. And he probably believed the site was out to get him and no matter if he played it perfect or not he just couldn't win!! Keep in mind that KK is only a 70% favorite over AQ preflop. Meaning that 30% of the time you will lose with KK to AQ. It happens.

And concerning your questions to BJ. The one thing I noticed is you are asking him about his STT (Single Table Tourney) stategy and saying you used that in your MTT (multi Table Tourney) freerolls. Keep in mind in each there is a different stategy. Same applies for cash/ring games, where the strategy differs from each of those as well. We have subforums for each type of play (SNG, Cash, MTT). Basically, the one thing I'm trying to say is that poker is so situational dependent that you can't take something you see and always apply it to whatever your situation is. THere is times when you make a move with 2 cards and times when you make a totally different move with the exact same 2 cards. Same goes for the different types of games. Sometimes in a tourney you will make a move with 2 cards that you would flat out fold in a cash game.

[LuckySlevin]

Oh I see thanks.
I'll try to read on some MTT tactics today.

Also I'm very worried by what you said Robb about people being able to create super accounts, at the back of my mind I thought that the systems would be exploitable by the people that made them, but then assumed (wrongly in the UB instance it would seem) that there would be protections in place to prevent such fraudulent cheating.

I tend to have been using (in order of frequency) : -

- Betfair (because it has the largest number of free rolls in my time)
- Pkr.com (just because I love the environment so much)
- Full Tilt (free rolls and I like the 2d caricutre style look)
- Poker Stars (for some free rolls)
- Poker School (pending signup, they're having problems at the moment)

All with play money and free rolls but when I do start a bankroll off I don't want to run the risk of giving it away to scam artists!

Does anyone know if the sites I've listed above are reliable in terms of internal staff abuse?

[bjsaust]

Yeah, as covered read the stickies in the MTT forum and they'll cover a lot of stuff. My tactics in an STT will be somewhat different from optimum tactics in an MTT, in particular STTs are a game of chip conservation (the chips in your stack are the most important ones), whereas MTTs are a game of chip accumulation (you need to keep increasing your stack to have any chance).

As for the pushes towards the end, they largely rely on Fold Equity (FE). So lets say I push J8o against a fairly standard player, he'll fold something like 80% of his hands. Even if I'm only 33% against his calling range, thats another 7% (1/3 of the 20% left), so basically I win 87% of the time, and the dead chips in the pot are worth enough for me to make this play. It'll be covered in more depth in the stickies in the MTT and particularly the STT forum.

[Robb]

Also I'm very worried by what you said Robb about people being able to create super accounts, at the back of my mind I thought that the systems would be exploitable by the people that made them, but then assumed (wrongly in the UB instance it would seem) that there would be protections in place to prevent such fraudulent cheating.

I tend to have been using (in order of frequency) : -

- Betfair (because it has the largest number of free rolls in my time)
- Pkr.com (just because I love the environment so much)
- Full Tilt (free rolls and I like the 2d caricutre style look)
- Poker Stars (for some free rolls)
- Poker School (pending signup, they're having problems at the moment)

All with play money and free rolls but when I do start a bankroll off I don't want to run the risk of giving it away to scam artists!

Does anyone know if the sites I've listed above are reliable in terms of internal staff abuse?

Sorry to worry you. By the way, I have and still do routinely play on both Absolute and UB which are now owned by the same company and both of which had "insider poker" scams. If you're playing microstakes, imo, you aren't the target. Someone might test a "superuser" account in 10nl, but as soon as they're sure it's working, they'll be off to the high stakes tables.

Poker Stars is awesome, and I'll be over there some day soon. I would worry about a site that's "having trouble at the moment," as you say poker school.

But bottom line, read the FTR Poker Room reviews. They explain in depth what bonuses you can get, what types of games and limits they offer, how many players are on the site and the difference in playability between peak and off-peak hours. They talk about the software interface and how good it is. They talk about the customer service and money transfer issues, whether the support is live or online, what the wait times are. They even give an estimate of how "soft" the games are.

Just my opinion, here, but I think Stars and Full Tilt are setting the standard for US-player sites right now in terms of quality and security.