Implied odds--thanks FTR

[moiraine57]

I am playing a SNG in the following hand. I had A-8 offsuit in the small blind, and called, with about 5 people in the pot.

Flop comes down rainbow A-J-rag. Another person min bet--and I thought, "What am I doing here? I am either going to win a very small pot or lose. Unless I hit two pair, A-8 offsuit isn't even worth my time." So I didn't even bother to call the min bet.

It was like music played in my head and I finally grasped the concept of implied odds. I always understood the concept in theory. But I finally wrapped my head around it for hands like A-8 off. I still don't think calling A-8 off for an extra 10 in small blind in a tourney is an awful idea. But now I see just how bad it really is and I won't be tempted to play it as much.

With hands like A-8 off I was always tempted to play for the min--and then would fold on the flop when it (more often than not) missed me. Even if you do make the Ace, almost any other A that people would actually play has you beat. I hope to get that leak out of my game.

It seems all the reading and posts are helping me.

It was great. Thanks F-T-R.

[Muxy]

Half way through your psot I was going to hit the quicky reply button saying fold preflop. Glad you have learnt AragO isn't great

[BreakfastMan]

Hi Moiraine,

I think you learned an important concept of not playing hands that are quite likely dominated by others in the pot, but what you have learned is not implied odds, at least it is not directly related to implied odds. What you have learned is the value of pre-flop hand selection. Since you have a multi player hand, you might call with hands that play well in multi-player pots and due to their somewhat hidden nature have high implied odds. Great hands to limp with here are small pairs say 22 thru 99. These hands have high implied odds, because if you have 55 and the flop comes A95, you have a hand that is likely to not just win the pot, but maybe win big if someone limped with AJ,A10 or A9 or maybe even any Ace. The high implied odds comes from the hidden strenght of the hand. Suited connectors are also good hands in multi player pots, but have somewhat lower implied odds since potential straights are quite visable. The same with nut flush draws. Suited one or two gapper hands are not as strong pre-flop as connectors, but have higher implied odds since the straights they make are less obvious.

Implied odds are all about the extra bets you may get after hitting your hand.

By the way, your A8o may be a fine hand to call with pre-flop in this case. Here what you look at is not implied odds, but pot odds. If their are 5 limpers in the pot in front of you and you are in the small blind, with just the big blind left to act, go ahead and call here. With five in front of you and assuming the big blind just calls, you are getting 13 to 1 on your bet! You call on the off chance you hit a flop like A82 or K88. Just remember that your best bet may be to drop the hand if a single Ace flops, just like you did.

[RiverMonkey]

Actually, to be nit-picky, wrt to A8o its actually the concept of reverse implied odds that you're grasping

Weak un-paired off-suit hands like A8o suffer from reverse implied odds; particularly when the pot is small and multi-way. (Actually even AA, KK, and QQ have reverse implied odds, but because they can win unimproved, make sets etc, they are much more robust).