the difference between limit/no limit hold em? I dont see it

[ripjohngotti]

The only different i see in limit/no limit hold em is of course...

1. the structured blinds
2. the looser tables in limit (playing any suited cards which i think is dumb)
3. worser players at hold em (not as much money as stake)
4. You can't bluff/protect ur hand as well in limit (due to limit bets)

I really cant see a different other then that...

I would love to hear ur opinons on the hands that are different taht you play in limit/no limit. Because of been playing no limit a lot now and i really don't see any different in the hands that i like to play..

[ilikeaces86]

hands like kq and qj are terrible in NL but decent in limit

[ripjohngotti]

Eh same chance of straight that just ties back to fishin more easily because its cheaper..I really thinkg you should chase backdoor flushes/or runer str8s do ya?

[Hubris1]

Lmiit and no limit have nothing alike and are entirely different games in my opinion.

Edit: Its like saying basketball and football are the same game because they involve moving a ball.

{This post has been removed}

[LeFou]

The nice way of saying it is this:
You're wrong. It would take all of Fnord's, ripptyde's, and 'rillas posts put together to exhaust the differences between limit and no-limit poker.

Limit Holdem is over here.














I'm around here somewhere








While No Limit Holdem is over here.


They are two different games with completely different strategies, hence the separate forums for Limit and No Limit Holdem

[FlyingSaucy]

I can't believe I am actually reading this shit..

Alright so maybe one word is not excessive.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=6520

This is one awesome ass thread though. Can't wait to see further responses.

[DarkenRahl]

I'd also like to point out that "worser" isn't a word.

[ampersandman]

Limit is like lawn bowls, NL is like a world title fight.

[FyrFytr998]

What in the heck? Are we still getting pranked on by 2+2? Rip I agree with you, but remember. We're better than that? Now go put some f**king soap in your f**king mouth.

I cannot believe the F**king vulgarity on this site. :P

[elipsesjeff]

Geez, this place....

They are two different games with completely different strategies, hence the separate forums for Limit and No Limit Holdem

I sure would like you to explain yourself. NL and LHE have the same preflop strategies and they have very similar, if not the same post flop strategies. The ONLY difference is the ability to go all in and the implied odds are greater. By-the-book poker in both LHE and NL are very similar.
The same people cold-calling in LHE with shitty cards are the same people in NL that are willing to go allin on the turn with a nut flush draw. You just have to know how to play post flop better in LHE, you just cant bet the hell out of the pot and give odds to everyone and their brother.

I'd also like to point out that "worser" isn't a word

Jackass...go back to 2+2

Limit is like lawn bowls, NL is like a world title fight

I know the home page of FTR is very NL centric, but there are a LOT of LHE players around here that will disagree with you. Granted, theres no heart attack when you push preflop with AA and get 4 callers, but its also easy to get excited when you are having a nice run 4 tabling. Nothing like not being able to move to the next window to raise fast enough. Also, finding the right fish and then proceeding to bleed his entire BR out of him is just as fun in LHE as it is in NL.

You can argue how 'great' NL is and how 'bad' LHE is, but I will push all in and guess that you havent played 1k hands of LHE, and even if you did, you sucked ass at it cuz you blamed it on 'the fish that draw out on you.' You can stay at NL for all i care, I almost enjoy it when my AA gets beat by a T4o cold caller who rivers a 4 to beat you. At least I didnt lose my stack on it.

[Phew72]

I sure would like you to explain yourself. NL and LHE have the same preflop strategies and they have very similar, if not the same post flop strategies. The ONLY difference is the ability to go all in and the implied odds are greater. By-the-book poker in both LHE and NL are very similar.

At the risk of enraging elipsesjeff some more, this isn't what I've read.

Now before you have a go at me, I don't play LHE but over the last four or five months I have read a lot and what I have read states categorically that pre-flop and post-flop strategies for NLHE vs. LHE are very different.

Position in LHE is important (more so pre-flop) but it is much more important in NLHE (especially post-flop).

Everything in LHE boils down to how big the pots are and whether you have odds before playing a hand. However, in NLHE you have the liberty of being able to limp in with lesser hands purely because if you hit you can potentially extract much more money from your opponents than a limited betting game.

Does this sound correct? I'm sure someone will put me straight if it's not.

BTW Rippy, I think the original poster may have missed the sarcasm in your post.
*whisper* *whisper*
What's that 'rilla - there wasn't any. Oh, sorry - my bad.


[EDIT: Can't believe I'm stand up for Dwarfy after his Scouser's jibe ]

[elipsesjeff]

Now before you have a go at me, I don't play LHE but over the last four or five months I have read a lot and what I have read states categorically that pre-flop and post-flop strategies for NLHE vs. LHE are very different.

You Don't Check Raise? You don't give odds to your opponent do you? Knowing when to bet and when to call are keys in both games.

Position in LHE is important (more so pre-flop) but it is much more important in NLHE (especially post-flop).

I disagree with you there. Position in LHE is necessary so you can take advantage of some plays, like Free cards, etc. NL you can make up for the expectation later in the rounds because your Implied odds are better.

Everything in LHE boils down to how big the pots are and whether you have odds before playing a hand. However, in NLHE you have the liberty of being able to limp in with lesser hands purely because if you hit you can potentially extract much more money from your opponents than a limited betting game.

So, wait, you don't use odds in your decisions or do you? Sounds like you are talking about implied odds. In this case, the implied odds in NL are a lot higher and thus you are able to make up for previous mistakes.

[|~|ypermegachi]

there's one thing that limit has that NL doesn't have.

there's no such thing as "pushing pot equity" in NL.

[Phew72]

Now before you have a go at me, I don't play LHE but over the last four or five months I have read a lot and what I have read states categorically that pre-flop and post-flop strategies for NLHE vs. LHE are very different.

You Don't Check Raise? You don't give odds to your opponent do you? Knowing when to bet and when to call are keys in both games.

Agreed but I'm not saying the "bread and butter" elements of the game are different.

Position in LHE is important (more so pre-flop) but it is much more important in NLHE (especially post-flop).

I disagree with you there. Position in LHE is necessary so you can take advantage of some plays, like Free cards, etc. NL you can make up for the expectation later in the rounds because your Implied odds are better.

Again, I agree with you that position is important but we are discussing what differences there are and in NLHE position is even more important.

Everything in LHE boils down to how big the pots are and whether you have odds before playing a hand. However, in NLHE you have the liberty of being able to limp in with lesser hands purely because if you hit you can potentially extract much more money from your opponents than a limited betting game.

So, wait, you don't use odds in your decisions or do you? Sounds like you are talking about implied odds. In this case, the implied odds in NL are a lot higher and thus you are able to make up for previous mistakes.

Does this mean you agree with me about something?

Like I said above, I don't play LHE but I understand that there are some fundamental differences in how you should play the two games.
Because of these differences and due to my lack of any experience, I would not want to play LHE based on my knowledge of playing NLHE.

I've found the site linked below as a good source of Texas Hold'em information and the administrator predominantly plays LHE. He has a great page regarding the differences between the two disciplines here:
http://www.learn-texas-holdem.com/no...rsus-limit.htm

Let me know what you think.

They are two different games with completely different strategies, hence the separate forums for Limit and No Limit Holdem

I sure would like you to explain yourself. NL and LHE have the same preflop strategies and they have very similar, if not the same post flop strategies. The ONLY difference is the ability to go all in and the implied odds are greater. By-the-book poker in both LHE and NL are very similar.
The same people cold-calling in LHE with shitty cards are the same people in NL that are willing to go allin on the turn with a nut flush draw. You just have to know how to play post flop better in LHE, you just cant bet the hell out of the pot and give odds to everyone and their brother.

You've answered your own question...

[|~|ypermegachi]

I've found the site linked below as a good source of Texas Hold'em information and the administrator predominantly plays LHE. He has a great page regarding the differences between the two disciplines here:
http://www.learn-texas-holdem.com/no...rsus-limit.htm

i've concluded this author doesn't know what he's talking about....

i'm going to rip it apart right now even though i should be studying...

"No Limit Holdem Is A More Technical Game"
false. being able to vary the bet sizes doesn't add any complexity. you either bet 1/2 the pot size or the pot size. anything else is silly.

"Psychology Is A Bigger Factor In No Limit"
fine, i agree. but the author fails to realize how expensive "calling down" really is after 1000 hands.

"No Limit Positional Play"
again, the author fails to realize how expensive it is to call down, or fold the better hand.

"Initiative More A Factor In No Limit"
fine...you bet the pot on the flop. i call. you bet the pot on the turn. i call. wtf do you do now on the river?

"Chip Size Matters In No Limit"
fine.

"In No Limit The Odds Are Against The Weak"
what about implied odds for the weak? who hasn't lost their trip aces to a flush on the river?

"The Stakes Are Bigger In No Limit"
last time i checked all online poker rooms have bigger stakes in limit.

"High Cards (KQ, AJ, KJ,...) Go Down In Value, Middle Pairs Go Up"
too generalized

"Some Draws Go Down In Value In No Limit Holdem"
no, you just go all in on the flop. with 2 cards to come you're even money on quality flush and OESDs.

"Bluffing Is A Key Tool In No Limit"
fine.

"No Limit Games Have Less People Seeing The Flop"
depends.

-------

this site is too generalized to draw any conclusive differences.

[Phew72]

i've concluded this author doesn't know what he's talking about....

i'm going to rip it apart right now even though i should be studying...

Oooooookay. I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree then.

I can't believe I am actually reading this shit..

in fact I am moving this thread to 'beginners circle' just because I can... and this noob deserves it for posting such a ridiculous entry

So if you agree with the original poster, does this mean you'll be having words with Rippy about the mouthful he gave him regarding this post?


[EDIT: Woohoo - this post gave me my half century *salutes_the_crowd*]

[|~|ypermegachi]

reading it again, here's a quote:

"A $2/4 no limit game is much larger then a $2/4 limit one"

you can draw your own conclusions from that sentence.

poker is a situational game. failure to adjust to changes during the game will get you killed regardless of playing limit or NL.

[elipsesjeff]

/me passes the tourch to hyper....

[Cocco_Bill]

[quote="hypermegachi"]

false. being able to vary the bet sizes doesn't add any complexity. you either bet 1/2 the pot size or the pot size. anything else is silly.

Thats ridiculous.. Minimum betting and overbetting the pot are very useful in certain situations. For example you can make it look like you are buying a pot when you have a hand or overbet against an opponent scared to lose his stack. Varying bet sizes adds a lot of complexity.

"Initiative More A Factor In No Limit"
fine...you bet the pot on the flop. i call. you bet the pot on the turn. i call. wtf do you do now on the river?

You are a lot more likely to get your opponent to fold if you take the innitiative and bet aggressively in no limit than limit.

"The Stakes Are Bigger In No Limit"
last time i checked all online poker rooms have bigger stakes in limit.

Tell me what pokersite I can see someone winning/losing $100k in one evening playing limit poker?

"Some Draws Go Down In Value In No Limit Holdem"
no, you just go all in on the flop. with 2 cards to come you're even money on quality flush and OESDs.

[b]Uhm, yes they do go down in value..an ordinary flush draw is not something you go all in on, so his comment is correct.[

[elipsesjeff]

Thats ridiculous.. Minimum betting and overbetting the pot are very useful in certain situations. For example you can make it look like you are buying a pot when you have a hand or overbet against an opponent scared to lose his stack. Varying bet sizes adds a lot of complexity.

It still comes down to your opponent's cards....Most players arent thinking anyway, they'll call any bet on any draw.

Tell me what pokersite I can see someone winning/losing $100k in one evening playing limit poker?

Phil Ivey playing the 1000/2000 LHE....You tell me where theres a guy losing 100k in NL, theres a guy losing 100k in LHE.

Uhm, yes they do go down in value..an ordinary flush draw is not something you go all in on, so his comment is correct.

Going all in on a flush draw isnt that bad of a play, if you have more than one caller this is +EV.

[|~|ypermegachi]

Thats ridiculous.. Minimum betting and overbetting the pot are very useful in certain situations. For example you can make it look like you are buying a pot when you have a hand or overbet against an opponent scared to lose his stack. Varying bet sizes adds a lot of complexity.

fine. i still don't think it adds that much more complexity. the minbet and overbet are just deceptive plays and with reads it's easy to see through them. it's only a problem when your opponent knows that you know that they know what you think you think they're doing. in that case just flip a coin.

tell me what pokersite I can see someone winning/losing $100k in one evening playing limit poker?

and which site would this be for NL? just because you CAN lose that much reloading all the time doesn't mean you will, or should.

Uhm, yes they do go down in value..an ordinary flush draw is not something you go all in on, so his comment is correct.

with the chances of improving, the chances they will fold, going all in is a very powerful move. top pair is a monster heads up, and he fails to take that into account.

-------

generalizations mean nothing. we could argue this silly limit vs NL argument forever and still draw no conclusions.

[Cocco_Bill]

[quote="hypermegachi"]

tell me what pokersite I can see someone winning/losing $100k in one evening playing limit poker?

and which site would this be for NL? just because you CAN lose that much reloading all the time doesn't mean you will, or should.

Prima poker network. I have seen at 2 seperate occations someoone winning $100k on the 50-100 blinds tables. And I don't follow those tables very often

Uhm, yes they do go down in value..an ordinary flush draw is not something you go all in on, so his comment is correct.

with the chances of improving, the chances they will fold, going all in is a very powerful move. top pair is a monster heads up, and he fails to take that into account.

[b]Hmm I find your posts kind of contradict each other..I thought it was basic knowledge that certain hands should be valued differently in limit vs no limit, simply because you have an upper price tag to see the next cards in limit poker. Pretty basic stuff really..[b]

.

[DavSimon]

NL is waaayyyy better than limit. I've watched Rounders like 4 times and that's all they play in that movie....nuff said!

[|~|ypermegachi]

Prima poker network. I have seen at 2 seperate occations someoone winning $100k on the 50-100 blinds tables. And I don't follow those tables very often

so you're saying they let you bring in 1000x the bb?

Hmm I find your posts kind of contradict each other..I thought it was basic knowledge that certain hands should be valued differently in limit vs no limit, simply because you have an upper price tag to see the next cards in limit poker. Pretty basic stuff really..

any statement regarding hand value that fails to address the pot size, the number of players, should be suspect.

-------

the basis for the author's argument is, if you screw up your stack is gone, and that makes NL more difficult to master. limit takes much different tactics to protect your hand, maximizing your expectation, pushing pot equity, which all is done very differently or not done at all in NL.

[|~|ypermegachi]

NL is waaayyyy better than limit. I've watched Rounders like 4 times and that's all they play in that movie....nuff said!

haha, time to hit the 7CS tables!

[Cocco_Bill]

[quote="hypermegachi"]

so you're saying they let you bring in 1000x the bb?

No 100x and he was up 10 times the buyin..

[.

[|~|ypermegachi]

No 100x and he was up 10 times the buyin..

that's a rare exception. i'm just talkin about in general.

here are the biggest tables, right now:
at stars: 100/200 limit (8 players), vs 5/10 NL (9 players)
at UB: 50/100 limit (5 players), vs 25/50 (7 players)
at prima: hmmm....no one plays high stakes limit here, vs 25/50 NL (2 full tables)
at party: 30/60 limit, vs 2/4 NL

damn...didn't know prima had such high stakes tables! and the average pot size seems very overflated for some reason (~1400)

[Cocco_Bill]

No 100x and he was up 10 times the buyin..

that's a rare exception. i'm just talkin about in general.

here are the biggest tables, right now:
at stars: 100/200 limit (8 players), vs 5/10 NL (9 players)
at UB: 50/100 limit (5 players), vs 25/50 (7 players)
at prima: hmmm....no one plays high stakes limit here, vs 25/50 NL (2 full tables)
at party: 30/60 limit, vs 2/4 NL

damn...didn't know prima had such high stakes tables! and the average pot size seems very overflated for some reason (~1400)

overflated? why? 25-50 NL pot sizes can't compare with 25-50 limit ones.

This is normal(obviously) for no limit but would be outrageous for limit.

Last few days the 50-100NL tables have been a bit quite, but usually they are active too at prime time.

[|~|ypermegachi]

overflated? why? 25-50 NL pot sizes can't compare with 25-50 limit ones.

This is normal(obviously) for no limit but would be outrageous for limit.

Last few days the 50-100NL tables have been a bit quite, but usually they are active too at prime time.

i'm not comparing to limit. i'm comparing to other NL games. an average 28bb pot doesn't seem overinflated to you?

[Cocco_Bill]

overflated? why? 25-50 NL pot sizes can't compare with 25-50 limit ones.

This is normal(obviously) for no limit but would be outrageous for limit.

Last few days the 50-100NL tables have been a bit quite, but usually they are active too at prime time.

i'm not comparing to limit. i'm comparing to other NL games. an average 28bb pot doesn't seem overinflated to you?

Some very aggressive players play there. Ever see Dared play? He likes to bluff with $10k bets..

I seen him make a $10k bet before and get called with a pair of tens with an overcard on the table..

Anyhow 28 BB is only like 14$ average pot size for .25-.50 tables which is very common

[Cocco_Bill]

looking at average pot sizes right now for .25-.5 NL on Prima

15, 18, 12, 10, 11, 10, 17...not far off eh? Its not inflated just accept it.

BTW: Is overflated an actual word in the english language? Always thought it was inflated?

[|~|ypermegachi]

looking at average pot sizes right now for .25-.5 NL on Prima

15, 18, 12, 10, 11, 10, 17...not far off eh? Its not inflated just accept it.

BTW: Is overflated an actual word in the english language? Always thought it was inflated?

the average of your numbers is 13, less than half of 28.

pwn is not a word either but i still use it.

[Cocco_Bill]

looking at average pot sizes right now for .25-.5 NL on Prima

15, 18, 12, 10, 11, 10, 17...not far off eh? Its not inflated just accept it.

BTW: Is overflated an actual word in the english language? Always thought it was inflated?

the average of your numbers is 13, less than half of 28.

pwn is not a word either but i still use it.

Uhm 13 is 26X the BB..

[|~|ypermegachi]

i'm going by big blinds.

[Cocco_Bill]

i'm going by big blinds.

So am I..

[|~|ypermegachi]

So am I..

whoops, my bad.

{This post has been removed}

[|~|ypermegachi]

hyper I se you posting on 2 + 2 you fuckin cheater :P

where is the FTR love we are not feelin it

make sure you wash your hands before you post here again you 2 timin btch

tou-che
who's been readin it? 8-)

[elipsesjeff]

hyper I se you posting on 2 + 2 you fuckin cheater :P

where is the FTR love we are not feelin it

make sure you wash your hands before you post here again you 2 timin btch

tou-che
who's been readin it? 8-)

I have....punk.

And cocco: no need to get defensive, 95% of the players on this site dont play at prima, especially on a regular basis. If you want to get specific, NL is different. but the GENERAL theories are very similar, if not the same.

And don't be a douch ane correcting my grammar okay? We arent english majors here and having correct punctuation is something you need at 2+2. If that were the case then boondock would have been banished long ago...I swear, i can't interpret his posts for hte life of me.

I digress...

[a500lbgorilla]

I think the most important issue here is



Why isn't there more?!

-'rilla